What went wrong?

[moff]

easy, its just not as good as wow, thats basically the reason.
this starts with its accessibility, extremely long load times, it takes forever to change zones, and even after its loaded you still have stuttering when lots of players are around and on other occasians. endgame does not offer as much variety as wows, raids feel not half a polished as wows. now the question is, why would you play the second best MMO if you can play the best one? there are basically two reasons.


1. you just cant see wow anymore because you played it seven years.
2. you love star wars


both of them apply to me. thats why I still play it and I guess I will for a while. and I think that also applies to most of the <1 000 000 subscribers the game still has.

[Geckoo]

Now people want 7 years worth of content that WoW built up.

Personally i don't want 7 years worth of content, what i wanted was 7 years worth of lessons of how to make things and a bit of improvement in those things. Quality of life for the gamer is many times more important than just how much contents there is.

Starting with the lack of any kind of addon or macro support (stop thinking that this has to work exactly like wow, they set up the language and how far addons and macros can go as they want), the customizable UI had to be from the begnining and even so, is still crappy and with a big lack of options to show up useful info about times and skills.

Now get a minor thing such as the preview window for armor... it seems a stupid complaint, but it perfectly sums up the problem... they got the basic MMO classic package... and only changed how quests worked... they changed that sooo much that many people just feels that half of the voice acting isn't neccesary at all, and so they skip those conversations without even reading the answers (except if there is light/dark options). The game is a great single player experience with great story behind and really fun to be part of that... but the class design is just bad in so many ways... the talent trees & skills system it feels really clumsy, the lack of tools to help people to gather up and run content, the excess of loading screens and transitions (get off the ship, get the lift, get the shuttle, welcome to <planet>)... many small details, some big issues that made this game feel old the same day it launched...

That said, i really enjoy this game, is really fun... but not worth the monthly fee, not worth to even be considered as a strong mmo. As a SW universe fan and a big gamer... i really felt dissapointed with how the game was launched. A new game, must be a new game, this one isn't new at all. And i'm not going to wait 7 years for them to improve what others already did.

[Kesandri]

I said to my friends from the start, a star wars mmo would never be as successful as the fantasy based mmo's (yes wow etc) because quite simply fantasy based mmo's are what the majority of mmo players want. Sci-fi mmo's have never been big compared to the fantasy option, while this one had a big name behind it , it was still limiting itself to a certain demographic.
To put it simply, SWOTOR was never going to be the big mmo that a lot of people thought it would be however...... there is no reason it cannot keep a decent sub base as long as EA / Bioware keep with it and dont get lazy, look at rift as an example as a decent mmo that has kept going and done well for itself.

[RoninaThorstone]

easy, its just not as good as wow, thats basically the reason.
this starts with its accessibility, extremely long load times, it takes forever to change zones, and even after its loaded you still have stuttering when lots of players are around and on other occasians. endgame does not offer as much variety as wows, raids feel not half a polished as wows. now the question is, why would you play the second best MMO if you can play the best one? there are basically two reasons.


1. you just cant see wow anymore because you played it seven years.
2. you love star wars


both of them apply to me. thats why I still play it and I guess I will for a while. and I think that also applies to most of the <1 000 000 subscribers the game still has.

I feel like the list can be extended a bit:

3: You prefer science fiction to fantasy
4: You enjoyed the RPG design of mass effect 1




Personally, when I quit wow I had been playing since launch and had 10 85s (one of each class) and 4 (5?) 80s on a different server.
I had done a lot of wow but I hadn't enjoyed it for years.
I played because it was an MMO so it supported several types of game play and offered multiplayer ect.
I had tried the other MMOs but they all seemed flawed at their core. I leveled a herald of xolti to 70 in AOC. The DDR combat system was a great idea! But snaring you during your combo was painful for the flow of combat. Couldn't get over it.
So swtor comes out, its got minor graphical and quest bugs with unpolished end game... But that's about it. There is no "well, can't play this" moment.
Now I am getting close to having 8 50s in swtor and loving every moment of it. The first tier of raiding is meh but EC is apparently amazing (rerolled recently to fatman so I haven't had the chance to play it but all my friends who have say its great.)

The fact is, there is a large population that wants something other than warcraft and its not GW2 or Rift or Tera or Morrowwind or w/e fantasy game that is coming out next.

We will stay in swtor and enjoy ourselves.

[Fathr]

I wanted a new pre CU SWG. I knew I wasnt gonna get it in SWTOR. But it was StarWars none the less.
Played JK & SI untill Part 1 one of the story was over and it was a good experience, but the environment was stale, and the quests was the same old. the lack of no LFG tools was another nail in the coffin. The worst was the engine, it felt "laggy" and totally unoptimized, my brand new top of the line machine went sizzeling when playing the game, and I had the wife's graphic card explode due to heat from the game requireing too much of it. Wow on the other hand and any other brand new FPS have no such issues so I blame Swtor.
I think SWTor should have gone the route of implementing some of the stuff that community was dying to play:

- Player Bounty systems (not limited to BH's, but they would get certain tracking benefits)
- Player Smugling missions (Smuglers / Han Solo wet dream)
- Player created content includeing base captureing PVP
- Non combat specialised classes
- Highly customized crafting and ressource colllecting thing SWG style
- a living breathing environment where stuff happend from time to time (Think GW2 system)

I want the ultimate sandbox adventure, where I feel I can make a difference, and enjoy the company of my fellow mmo players who want the same! You can then take the "loot" as the end all be all goal and shove it. I want to have fun! And the most fun I have ever had was in SWG pre CU, going krayt hunting or fighting rancors / night sisters, while waiting for chasing a jedi across the galaxy.

[FusedMass]

What exactly went wrong with swtor?

We're 6 months down the line and all I hear this day is how swtor is dying and it's hard to deny that swtor isn't in good condition right now.

Is it possible to regain their subs or is it only going downhill from now.

What happened that started this insane decline in numbers for such a hyped mmo that cost 300 million to build?

The game is fine. If you saw wow when it first came out it looked like a complete cartoon. Very different from now. They just made too many server's at launch because people had an hour or more waiting time and now they're are too many and they spread them out. The graphics are still HD polised. They have great story progression and to be honest for 15 dollars a month you could do a lot worse.

I just bought a pizza at 30 dollars, It granted me a 2 liter and 2 large pizzas for 21 dollars. TOR only cost 15 and it's going to last be entire month. It may not be the game I play all day, everyday all the time but it did have great success in getting me entertainment
when I want it.

[Elim Garak]

I said to my friends from the start, a star wars mmo would never be as successful as the fantasy based mmo's (yes wow etc) because quite simply fantasy based mmo's are what the majority of mmo players want. Sci-fi mmo's have never been big compared to the fantasy option, while this one had a big name behind it , it was still limiting itself to a certain demographic.

I feel like the list can be extended a bit:

3: You prefer science fiction to fantasy

SW is not Sci-Fi - it's fantasy, don't let space ships, blasters and droids confuse you.
We have space ships, blasters and droids in wow.

[goombatommy]

I'm going to agree with the vast majority here. I played it for about month then just got bored and lost interest. The game felt extremely linear, there was were no real reason to "venture" off and explore the worlds due to boundaries, pack of elite mobs or strolling into a 5-man instance, etc. Given it did feel truly authentic to the Star Wars universe, but it just wasn't there for me. I've since re-subbed back to Rift and I've been enjoying the hell out of that game.

[WarpedAcorn]

What exactly went wrong with swtor?

We're 6 months down the line and all I hear this day is how swtor is dying and it's hard to deny that swtor isn't in good condition right now.

Is it possible to regain their subs or is it only going downhill from now.

What happened that started this insane decline in numbers for such a hyped mmo that cost 300 million to build?

Very few will argue that the character storylines were great and the voice acting was well done. Some parts seem grindier than others, but overall it was an enjoyable leveling experience. Where the game floundered was once you got to max level. I think the biggest cause for cancelled subs was that the leveling process was nothing like the endgame, so people that were enjoying it really had nothing to do. At least that would explain the disappearance of the players who were allegedly new to MMO's.

The other area where they lost player confidence was their bumbling with mechanics. I know they have guys that have worked on MMO's before, but they have made some pretty WTF mistakes. The whole Ilum debacle turned off a lot of people, and the massive unbalancing of classes through the patches caused more than a few headscratches. And do not forget that Class Skills are a big point of contention, and I know many people who got really frustrated with Bioware changing the skills around constantly.

For me personally, the lack of confidence is in the PvP realm because that is what I enjoy doing. The classes were fairly balanced at launch, with certain classes/specs more advantageous on different Warzones. But everything was viable. Even with all the QQ about Scoundrel/Operative burst DPS, I saw nothing wrong with it since those classes had a very specific role in a group (but more often just cherry picked easy solo kills). But the thing I enjoyed most was the 10-49 bracket where I always felt that I could make a difference (thanks to bolster) and I did not have to participate in a silly gear race. I personally enjoyed just playing in a pvp situation wear I only had to worry about skill and not about grinding out gear (which is what PvP is now). I resubbed and played a bunch of Warzones last night, and the gear difference (at 50) seemed to make a larger difference than skill. For me, it doesn't make sense and it also meant I would have to grind a lot in order to overcome the gear defficiency. After some thought I decided that it wasn't worth not having fun for that much time in order to potentially have fun. So I went back to an alt to do 10-49 pvp for a bit.

But back on topic, Bioware has made a lot of mistakes to turn players off of their product (even with the best intentions in mind). By doing this, and taking a long time to respond to low populations on the servers after this exodus, it takes the Massively out of MMO. And if that happens the player goes off to find a better community.

[namelessone]

I think it just needs to go the route of Rift and take care of their core subscribers, instead of trying to become the next WoW.

But I don't see it happening, EA want's money and they will find a way to make it with this game. At the cost of more subscribers, no doubt.

It's shame too cause it's a great game.

How do you make money at cost of subscribers? A game that no one plays brings 0 dollars. Unless you beg government for a subsidy.

[shimargh]

One very big reason, I (and pretty much everyone I know) didn't like the game, was the 10/30/60% split..

60% of the time, you listen to quest-voice
30% of the time, you run back and forth
10% of the time, you spend actually playing..

MANY MANY people complained about this, but nothing was done..
In the end, I didn't buy the game.. Open Beta was more than enough for me.

yeah ppl without good keyboards, you know, those with spacebars.

[SirRobin]

Wait, did something else happen? TOR is in the same spot its been since February, maybe even since January. Steadily losing subscribers as the game fails to keep them wanting to pay to play. TOR is hardly the first MMORPG to go through this same scenario and I doubt it will be the last. Its numbers will stabilize at some point and how quickly, and how well, BioWare addresses TOR's shortcomings will mostly determine what that number will be.

[Dreary]

You obviously haven't been paying attention at all if you're still asking this question after 6 months.

[Arlee]

It lost over 25% of it's subscribers, and over 25% of the Development staff was just fired

Guy is banned atm so this isn't a response to him but mostly I want to ask you guys to PLEASE if you are going to make claims like this back it up with a source otherwise it is basically trolling. As far as I have seen (and of course I definitely could have missed something out there) no specific number of people who were laid off has been released. I have seen a lot of speculation on it, I also saw a statement from an EA rep saying that the speculation that they had laidoff 200 people was much higher than the actual number.

It's fine to talk about the negative things that happen and stuff, it just really would be better to make sure we are all on the same page and talking like sane people

[Svifnymr]

Guy is banned atm so this isn't a response to him but mostly I want to ask you guys to PLEASE if you are going to make claims like this back it up with a source otherwise it is basically trolling. As far as I have seen (and of course I definitely could have missed something out there) no specific number of people who were laid off has been released. I have seen a lot of speculation on it, I also saw a statement from an EA rep saying that the speculation that they had laidoff 200 people was much higher than the actual number.

It's fine to talk about the negative things that happen and stuff, it just really would be better to make sure we are all on the same page and talking like sane people

It's the same with the "no comparing to other games", which I agree with. But, really, some of these complaints are the same as plenty of other MMO's, including WoW. Not every issue of course, but it's hard to fathom why someone would list Ilum's mess ups when Wintergrasp and Tol Barad both failed in the same regards and were constantly tweaked and reinvented. Class imbalance in a patch? That's every patch in every MMO ever, I think. A complete seperation between Leveling and Endgame... seems familiar also.


So yeah, it would have been great if TOR had done things differently in some of the areas, but the reason those are problems isn't the problem itself, it's more "well if I am going to have this, I may as well go back to the evil I know".

I got lucky enough that I had very few issues in the early game (performance wise). I understand others had issues both large and small. I also understand that the long-standing problem with computer games vs console games was always the huge variety in trying to make a game to fit the chaos of a pc.

The main huge thing they did wrong was open up way too many servers, thinking that there'd be no drop. They were totally unprepared for it, and the server mergers/ moves are way too long out from the cause. Other stuff I can attribute to player preference which is very subjective (I'd like macro's, and see how mouse-over healing is "needed", but the lack of add-ons? I'm fine with no add-ons. LFG I want, but 2 of the folks I play with specificaly want it to NOT be in.)

[RoninaThorstone]

The main huge thing they did wrong was open up way too many servers, thinking that there'd be no drop. They were totally unprepared for it, and the server mergers/ moves are way too long out from the cause.

This.

I feel that they were expecting people to play 3-5 characters instead of 1.

If you look at the pace of development, its perfectly spaced out if you are exploring all the classes.

No so much if you are focused purely on your main.

next time an MMO launches it better be with a mega server instead of like 50 severs.

[Profyrion]

What went wrong?

Expectations went wrong.

Bioware actually did a surprising number of things right. But despite a fantastic open beta period followed by an extremely smooth launch (smoothest in MMO history) players didn't get the game that they set themselves up for. And maybe the hype generated by the fantastically rendered teaser videos played into that a little. But in the end, gamers were mostly to blame.

My only criticism of Bioware at this point is how they've handled server populations since about March. They dealt with the tidal wave of new players fairly well. Adjustments to server caps and bringing new ones online happened within a day or so of the launch surge(s). They were ready. But I don't think they expected the wave to recede as quickly as it did, so the problem reversed itself faster than they were equipped to handle it. And part of the delay may be a technical hurdle with how character legacies are handled at the server, so it's a lot more complicated than just moving character data from one DB to another.

The good news is that the fix is on the way in 1.3. It's too bad fickle gamers won't be able to hold on long enough to see it.

All this negative attention from the ADD entitlement crowd will shift to Guild Wars 2 in a few months and SWTOR can finally get back to being a kick ass Star Wars game.

[RoninaThorstone]

All this negative attention from the ADD entitlement crowd will shift to Guild Wars 2 in a few months and SWTOR can finally get back to being a kick ass Star Wars game.

Oh man, I am so looking forward to that.

They will finally say "swtor is dead for good!" and then go bother GW2 and then we can have discussions like the best dps rotation for lethality operative and stuff.

[Deleted]

Simply put; the game has no longevity. People realise it gets really old, really fast.

Most folk that play SWTOR are people who played WoW, and for them to go back to more months of Dragon Soul speaks volumes.

[Duskmourne]

I personally left because my choice of options, when none of my friends were online, were severely limited - it felt like a void. I was glad to hear that they are finally adding a real group finding system, but it's really too late for me. I grew too frustrated when, for weeks, my only option was to stand in fleet for hours trying to spam chat channels and hoping for the best.