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  1. #1
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Have Hunters been flying under the radar?

    So we've had 50+ pages of people talking about Rogues being overpowered this season. People have been saying Frost Mages have been overpowered pretty much since day 1 of Cata. Frost DKs and Ret Paladins are also getting a lot of flak lately.

    But what about Hunters? They just seem to scoot by unnoticed, when I'd honestly probably say they're the most overpowered class in the game right now... in the hands of a competent player (not even good, just competent.) When their abilities are used properly, it's almost like they're ranged Rogues.

    They have a lot of CC, a lot of which are on completely separate DR timers, and most of which is on a short cooldown. They also have a lot of ways of avoiding damage, similar to Rogues. Also like Rogues - and, just like Rogues, also due to scaling and/or PvE equipment - their damage is monstrous. Hell, they even have a (very) limited form of Stealth with Camouflage.

    And yet you almost never see people complaining about them. Why is that? I did some 2's earlier today for points (yeah, yeah, not balanced around 2v2, etc etc) with a warlock. Oddly enough, my arena team isn't showing up in my armory. Regardless, the warlock's running about 4300 Resilience (again, that's fairly low, but it's full Ruthless with some PvE pieces), which is a respectable amount of Resil; I'm only at about 4650 and I'm in full PvP kit.

    We got dicked by Rogue teams a lot, which was expected, but when we ran into Hunter teams, it was like being blindsided by a Hummer. At one point the lock got stuck with the spider root and went from about 85% to around 15% in the space of 2-3 seconds, all of the damage being purely from the Hunter (the Hunter's teammate was busy being hexed.) I've experienced similar things fighting Hunters - all it takes is one pet root or one good Scatter Shot and suddenly you lose half your health or more in the blink of an eye... and from 40 yards away.

    I'm also not convinced that "just train the Hunter!" is a legitimate excuse, either. "Just train them!" is a valid means of countering a LOT of classes, but in my experience Hunters are much better at avoiding being trained than a lot of other classes, particularly a lot of other ranged classes. Frost Mages, for as much as people gripe about them, aren't that hard to bring down as long as you can get your teammates out of the nova spamming and can keep dispelling Ice Barrier and/or Ice Block. Maybe it's because Disengage is such a fantastic escape skill - unlike Blink, it can't fizzle due to oddities in terrain - and actually benefits from terrain: you can jump off of a small hill (or use a parachute cloak!) to get a lot more than the prescribed 20 yards of distance... and it's on a rather short cooldown, too. Deterrence prevents them from attacking, but it doesn't stop the pet from being used, and with the numerous buff it's received over the months and years, it's a lot like Divine Shield without the Forbearance effect. Hell, you can't even disarm them to prevent the Deterrence (don't ask me how they can parry without a weapon.)

    I mean, is this all just in my head? I know there are a LOT of really, really awful Hunters for every competent one, and good Hunters are rarer than plutonium, but does that justify Hunters being like a ranged Rogue when played properly?
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    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
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  2. #2
    To be honest I play a Mage, and anytime I see a hunter it's like............I should just give up. In 2s that is. I know 2s don't count but I play for fun, and any hunter team will destroy me.

    Man you post so late. I was just scanning forum before I go to bed. I agree hunters are strong the less people there are. Not sure about 3s but 2s and duels are their game.

    Goodnight respond more tomorrow.

  3. #3
    Legendary! Vargur's Avatar
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    They're very strong in PVE as well.
    Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings.
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  4. #4
    Brewmaster Kissthebaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    So we've had 50+ pages of people talking about Rogues being overpowered this season. People have been saying Frost Mages have been overpowered pretty much since day 1 of Cata. Frost DKs and Ret Paladins are also getting a lot of flak lately.

    But what about Hunters? They just seem to scoot by unnoticed, when I'd honestly probably say they're the most overpowered class in the game right now... in the hands of a competent player (not even good, just competent.) When their abilities are used properly, it's almost like they're ranged Rogues.

    They have a lot of CC, a lot of which are on completely separate DR timers, and most of which is on a short cooldown. They also have a lot of ways of avoiding damage, similar to Rogues. Also like Rogues - and, just like Rogues, also due to scaling and/or PvE equipment - their damage is monstrous. Hell, they even have a (very) limited form of Stealth with Camouflage.

    And yet you almost never see people complaining about them. Why is that? I did some 2's earlier today for points (yeah, yeah, not balanced around 2v2, etc etc) with a warlock. Oddly enough, my arena team isn't showing up in my armory. Regardless, the warlock's running about 4300 Resilience (again, that's fairly low, but it's full Ruthless with some PvE pieces), which is a respectable amount of Resil; I'm only at about 4650 and I'm in full PvP kit.

    We got dicked by Rogue teams a lot, which was expected, but when we ran into Hunter teams, it was like being blindsided by a Hummer. At one point the lock got stuck with the spider root and went from about 85% to around 15% in the space of 2-3 seconds, all of the damage being purely from the Hunter (the Hunter's teammate was busy being hexed.) I've experienced similar things fighting Hunters - all it takes is one pet root or one good Scatter Shot and suddenly you lose half your health or more in the blink of an eye... and from 40 yards away.

    I'm also not convinced that "just train the Hunter!" is a legitimate excuse, either. "Just train them!" is a valid means of countering a LOT of classes, but in my experience Hunters are much better at avoiding being trained than a lot of other classes, particularly a lot of other ranged classes. Frost Mages, for as much as people gripe about them, aren't that hard to bring down as long as you can get your teammates out of the nova spamming and can keep dispelling Ice Barrier and/or Ice Block. Maybe it's because Disengage is such a fantastic escape skill - unlike Blink, it can't fizzle due to oddities in terrain - and actually benefits from terrain: you can jump off of a small hill (or use a parachute cloak!) to get a lot more than the prescribed 20 yards of distance... and it's on a rather short cooldown, too. Deterrence prevents them from attacking, but it doesn't stop the pet from being used, and with the numerous buff it's received over the months and years, it's a lot like Divine Shield without the Forbearance effect. Hell, you can't even disarm them to prevent the Deterrence (don't ask me how they can parry without a weapon.)

    I mean, is this all just in my head? I know there are a LOT of really, really awful Hunters for every competent one, and good Hunters are rarer than plutonium, but does that justify Hunters being like a ranged Rogue when played properly?
    Is this a troll , or is this guy serious. ?

  5. #5
    Warchief Serj Tankian's Avatar
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    Basic rule of World of Warcraft.

    Any class other than your own is overpowered. Your class is always underpowered.

  6. #6
    The only thing I find annoying about dealing with hunters are their pets. Those things are way too varied in the shit they can do. If the small contingent of anti-pet spec hunters get their way they will get pets taken out of MM. That means I will no longer have to worry about their damn pets following me when I LOS. Please by all means keep thinking your traps mean something to me. LOL
    Last edited by Onigumo; 2012-06-13 at 05:53 AM.

  7. #7
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueobelisk View Post
    To be honest I play a Mage, and anytime I see a hunter it's like............I should just give up. In 2s that is. I know 2s don't count but I play for fun, and any hunter team will destroy me.

    Man you post so late. I was just scanning forum before I go to bed. I agree hunters are strong the less people there are. Not sure about 3s but 2s and duels are their game.

    Goodnight respond more tomorrow.
    We have unimpeded internet access at work and paperwork gets boring. I pretty much only use internet forums when I'm bored at work

    Quote Originally Posted by BleedingHollowVeteran View Post
    Basic rule of World of Warcraft.

    Any class other than your own is overpowered. Your class is always underpowered.
    Actually I'd say Enhancement's in an acceptable spot right now. Not underpowered at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  8. #8
    Deleted
    Hunters definitely have a lot of strengths, but they have a lot of weaknesses too. Strengths would include unloading a full focus bar and damn near solo'ing half the classes out there, strong cc, and readiness. The more broken stuff would be that spell-pen bug on traps (is that still in the game?), being unable to regen focus while getting los'd, and disengage not being nearly as good as blink, despite what you said. Also, as someone who plays a spriest, I've seen a lot of hunters die from dots while in deterrence.

    Compare this to rogues, who have even stronger CC, smokebomb, and are a complete arse to kill with cloak, vanish, recup and cheat death. Yesterday my shadowplay team fought an RLS where we knocked the rogue out of stealth at the start, and he then rambo'd behind a pillar with us and we dropped him to 10% immediately. If that had been a hunter, warrior, priest, shaman, or a dozen other specs, he'd have been dead, but because it was a rogue he cloak>vanished and the next time we saw him 10 seconds later, he was at 90% hp. Hunters have their strengths, but right now it's stupid to complain about class being OP while rogues are out there.

  9. #9
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyred View Post
    Hunters definitely have a lot of strengths, but they have a lot of weaknesses too. Strengths would include unloading a full focus bar and damn near solo'ing half the classes out there, strong cc, and readiness. The more broken stuff would be that spell-pen bug on traps (is that still in the game?), being unable to regen focus while getting los'd, and disengage not being nearly as good as blink, despite what you said. Also, as someone who plays a spriest, I've seen a lot of hunters die from dots while in deterrence.

    Compare this to rogues, who have even stronger CC, smokebomb, and are a complete arse to kill with cloak, vanish, recup and cheat death. Yesterday my shadowplay team fought an RLS where we knocked the rogue out of stealth at the start, and he then rambo'd behind a pillar with us and we dropped him to 10% immediately. If that had been a hunter, warrior, priest, shaman, or a dozen other specs, he'd have been dead, but because it was a rogue he cloak>vanished and the next time we saw him 10 seconds later, he was at 90% hp. Hunters have their strengths, but right now it's stupid to complain about class being OP while rogues are out there.
    I don't see how Disengage is weaker than Blink. It doesn't break stuns, but Disengage also never, EVER fizzles based on terrain. Because it's not an instant linear movement like most every other movement ability (Heroic Leap is a linear movement effect, too; it might LOOK similar to Disengage but it's really more like a Blink or Charge), it means the Hunter's able to use terrain to his advantage when deciding when and where to Disengage. It's why bad Hunters die from jumping off a cliff or waste a Disengage by jumping into a wall two feet behind them (situational awareness is hard, apparently) and why good Hunters can get anywhere from 30-40yd of distance off a Disengage by using it in the right places.

    How many times have you seen a Mage use their Blink to get away and go two feet forward, even when they're on what appears to be even terrain?

    What bothers me about Hunters is that fucking EVERYTHING is instant. Aimed Shot is the only ability that requires them to actually stand the fuck still since Aspect of the Fox allows Steady Shot on the move, and it still can't be interrupted unless you can dead zone them - it's not like you can hit a hunter with a Counterspell to prevent them from dicking your healer with a 50k Aimed Shot crit. True, Rogue damage is also pretty crazy right now, but Rogue damage isn't ranged.

    The damage and their bag of tricks doesn't bother me nearly so much as the fact that there's practically no restrictions or restraints placed on that damage does; they have the benefit of a spellcaster's range combined with the benefit of a melee's instant-everything with pretty much none of the drawbacks from either. Their ranged attacks are instant or otherwise can't be interrupted by Pummel, Wind Shear, etc, and by virtue of most of their attacks being instant, they don't have to deal with the cast times (and resulting issues) that spellcasters (particularly non-Mage spellcasters) have to deal with.

    Hell, just nerfing Concussive Shot range to like 30 yards would be something. Drives me up the damn wall that Hunters get a physical snare that has 100% uptime, no resource cost, is instant, and has a 40 yd range. It's fucking ranged Hamstring without the resource cost >_<

    EDIT: To make it clear, I'm aware that Hunters have weaknesses, and those can be exploited. My point is that I feel that their strengths far outweigh their weaknesses right now, and that it seems odd that, while people scream bloody murder about a Rogue and Shadowdance, they don't say a damn thing about a Hunter lining up an 80k-damage Aimed Shot combo.
    Last edited by PizzaSHARK; 2012-06-13 at 10:11 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  10. #10
    Hell, just nerfing Concussive Shot range to like 30 yards would be something. Drives me up the damn wall that Hunters get a physical snare that has 100% uptime, no resource cost, is instant, and has a 40 yd range. It's fucking ranged Hamstring without the resource cost >_<
    Last I saw Conc shot is being removed in MoP and the snare is being tied to Arcane shot, meaning it will have a resource cost
    RETH

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer GKLeatherCraft's Avatar
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    I don't think so, i can destroy hunters, and only those hunters who know what they're doing have a chance, it's not an easy class to play, But as said before me, everyone else is always OP, apparently

  12. #12
    It is true hunters are better than most people give them credit for now. Great burst and decent CC/survivability. However contrary to what the OP believes hunters have a MUCH higher (PvP)skill cap than many specs. The sheer amount of keybinds absolutely necessary to pvp decently on a hunter for starters.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    I don't see how Disengage is weaker than Blink. It doesn't break stuns, but Disengage also never, EVER fizzles based on terrain. Because it's not an instant linear movement like most every other movement ability (Heroic Leap is a linear movement effect, too; it might LOOK similar to Disengage but it's really more like a Blink or Charge), it means the Hunter's able to use terrain to his advantage when deciding when and where to Disengage. It's why bad Hunters die from jumping off a cliff or waste a Disengage by jumping into a wall two feet behind them (situational awareness is hard, apparently) and why good Hunters can get anywhere from 30-40yd of distance off a Disengage by using it in the right places.

    How many times have you seen a Mage use their Blink to get away and go two feet forward, even when they're on what appears to be even terrain?

    What bothers me about Hunters is that fucking EVERYTHING is instant. Aimed Shot is the only ability that requires them to actually stand the fuck still since Aspect of the Fox allows Steady Shot on the move, and it still can't be interrupted unless you can dead zone them - it's not like you can hit a hunter with a Counterspell to prevent them from dicking your healer with a 50k Aimed Shot crit. True, Rogue damage is also pretty crazy right now, but Rogue damage isn't ranged.

    The damage and their bag of tricks doesn't bother me nearly so much as the fact that there's practically no restrictions or restraints placed on that damage does; they have the benefit of a spellcaster's range combined with the benefit of a melee's instant-everything with pretty much none of the drawbacks from either. Their ranged attacks are instant or otherwise can't be interrupted by Pummel, Wind Shear, etc, and by virtue of most of their attacks being instant, they don't have to deal with the cast times (and resulting issues) that spellcasters (particularly non-Mage spellcasters) have to deal with.

    Hell, just nerfing Concussive Shot range to like 30 yards would be something. Drives me up the damn wall that Hunters get a physical snare that has 100% uptime, no resource cost, is instant, and has a 40 yd range. It's fucking ranged Hamstring without the resource cost >_<

    EDIT: To make it clear, I'm aware that Hunters have weaknesses, and those can be exploited. My point is that I feel that their strengths far outweigh their weaknesses right now, and that it seems odd that, while people scream bloody murder about a Rogue and Shadowdance, they don't say a damn thing about a Hunter lining up an 80k-damage Aimed Shot combo.
    Disengage IS limited by the terrain, a blink goes uphill a disengage doesn't.
    You can also cc us during disengage which nails us directly to the ground, you can't do the same with charge/blink.

    If your healer gets hit by a 50k aimed shot, he or she needs to gear up better.
    I've never hit a 50k aimed on a player and i've got full heroic bis and full pvp set, the highest on both I got on a 4k healer was 42k, with all cds up.

    Afaik all classes have snares they can keep up for almost 100% of the time, for little to none resource cost.

    I think you should try to play a hunter at 2400+ rating in 3's just to see how high the bar is set for us.
    Last edited by mmoc4797852bd6; 2012-06-13 at 11:00 AM.

  14. #14
    Hunters would be best described as one of the classes that are not only tunelled into one spec (MM) but also as the class with the highest skill cap in my opinion, as damage dealer in any case. When you meet or play with a skilled Hunter you'll know. I've played every class bar Warlock at 85 to 2k and above in both 2's and 3's bracket and honestly Hunter was the hardest until I gained a considerable amount of skill, knowledge and practice including accurate and easy to use bindings along with precise and direct macros of which I sadly have over 20. Bindings as Hunter seem endless too. My main is a Rogue and one thing that I find extremely enjoyable is that on my Rogue I find that I eat any Hunter under 2400 generally with ease, I'd say around 80% uptime over a 3minute tunnel (Prep used too of course). However, on my Hunter, I can kite any rogue and i mean any Rogue which proves my point even further, when Hunters reach a considerable amount of skill they can seem impossible - even to the most dominant of the OP classes. The truth of the matter is Hunters still aren't in a great place, any semi-capable Mage if not bursted to death will be the bane of your life. Good warriors that can time their charges are also pain - as are rogues and Rets with Cleanse removing slows. Bear in mind that Hunter kiting is largely reduced in Arena due not being able to ice trap because a healer is usually freezing trapped.

    All in all I'd say if the Dead-zone was removed, Hunter's would be beats but as it stands only a skilled hunter will really get on your nerves.

  15. #15
    Why not have the best of both worlds and go against Thugcleave? ; ))))))))))))))))

    all seriousness: it's well known that if locks and rogues weren't so powerful this season, Hunters would be next on the list. You're not alone thinking that Hunters are overpowered, but there is no point complaining about a class which isn't the MOST overpowered.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Snip
    So... much...fuckery right here! Where to start?

    They have a lot of CC, a lot of which are on completely separate DR timers, and most of which is on a short cooldown.
    We have Freezing trap on a 28 second CD, this trap has to be aimed and combined with another CC ability(scatter shot/Bad manners) in order to be successful, even then our trap is easily sabotaged as it has a 1-3 second deploy time where a team mate of the trap victim can easily run in and take the trap in his stead.


    Another thing to be noted with Freezing trap is that it shares CD with Frost trap(slow/root), this forces hunters to use Snake trap for slow/root. Using Snake trap is extremely risky business as it gives the affected targets a dot effect, which will break Freezing trap/scatter/Bad manner and render us unable to CC during the effect time. So compared to the spammable CC (Sheep/fear/sap) it's incredibly weak and very unforgiving if not used properly or if being sabotaged.

    Hell, they even have a (very) limited form of Stealth with Camouflage.
    As you said, very limited, bordering to useless! It gives us Sap immunity, that's it. At best, it can be used to get the time needed to ress a dead pet.

    I'm also not convinced that "just train the Hunter!" is a legitimate excuse, either. "Just train them!" is a valid means of countering a LOT of classes, but in my experience Hunters are much better at avoiding being trained than a lot of other classes, particularly a lot of other ranged classes.
    A hunter's survival is heavily dependent on several factors, which i will list below.
    1: Is Pet CC'd/Line of sight/dead? If it is, we can't Roar of sacrifice, Master's call or use any pet ability defensively.

    2: Is this a good moment to disengage? If we disengage in the wrong direction, away from our healer, we'll die or put our healer in a crappy position. If we disengage when enemy team still has Cd's (Shadowstep/Death grip/feral leap/ blink, etc) the DE will be undone and we'll be unable to get distance for 15 sec.

    3: Should i use Deterrence? Can i be peeled? Is my healer in line of sight? Have the enemy team used nuke cd's? What will i do after my Deterrence?
    If you use deterrence when the enemy hasn't used their nuke cd's, that's the first thing that will happen when deterrence comes off and you'll be forced to use use it again or waste loads of Cd's to survive ( Traps/RoS/DE).

    Maybe it's because Disengage is such a fantastic escape skill - unlike Blink, it can't fizzle due to oddities in terrain - and actually benefits from terrain: you can jump off of a small hill (or use a parachute cloak!) to get a lot more than the prescribed 20 yards of distance...
    You haven't played a hunter have you? Sometimes you Disengage and nothing happens, because you got stunned/rooted on the millisecond you used it but it will still be on cooldown! Unlike Blink, Disengage does not remove stuns/roots. DE from what hill? We're talking Arena and overall scaling here, not one lonely peak in AB.

    Deterrence prevents them from attacking, but it doesn't stop the pet from being used, and with the numerous buff it's received over the months and years, it's a lot like Divine Shield without the Forbearance effect.
    HAHAHA! But we can't deterrence when stunned, we still take damage under deterrence from Dot's and our pet is completely useless in the damage department, unless you're BM.


    At one point the lock got stuck with the spider root and went from about 85% to around 15% in the space of 2-3 seconds, all of the damage being purely from the Hunter (the Hunter's teammate was busy being hexed.)
    I'm going to tell you what happened here and what your warlock did wrong.
    1:He most likely stood out in the open tanking the hunter at all times, completely ignoring the obvious advantage of being a warlock, doing damage behind LoS.

    2:He failed to use portal when he got webbed and allowed the hunter to hard cast Aimed shot. Alternatively, you failed to dispel the warlock.

    3:The warlock ran too far from you and was unable to eat traps, putting you in a crappy position. Alternatively, you used trinket on Scatter shot and had to sit a full duration trap (I think this).

    Just lulz

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    I don't see how Disengage is weaker than Blink. It doesn't break stuns, but Disengage also never, EVER fizzles based on terrain. Because it's not an instant linear movement like most every other movement ability (Heroic Leap is a linear movement effect, too; it might LOOK similar to Disengage but it's really more like a Blink or Charge), it means the Hunter's able to use terrain to his advantage when deciding when and where to Disengage. It's why bad Hunters die from jumping off a cliff or waste a Disengage by jumping into a wall two feet behind them (situational awareness is hard, apparently) and why good Hunters can get anywhere from 30-40yd of distance off a Disengage by using it in the right places.
    Disengage absolutely is limited by terrain, numerous times I've seen a hunter disengage from me and stop 3 yards away because the BG they're in happened to have a slight incline behind them. I'm not even talking a hill, I'm talking a slight unevenness in terrain. Add to that blink's lower cooldown and ability to get you out of stuns, and I don't see how anyone could argue that disengage is a better ability with a straight face. It's not a bad ability, but when you see hunters get charged halfway through it while a mage blinks out of a 5pt kidney...

    EDIT: To make it clear, I'm aware that Hunters have weaknesses, and those can be exploited. My point is that I feel that their strengths far outweigh their weaknesses right now, and that it seems odd that, while people scream bloody murder about a Rogue and Shadowdance, they don't say a damn thing about a Hunter lining up an 80k-damage Aimed Shot combo.
    Sure, some of the hunter stuff is stupid, the infinite slow, the caster-without-the-casting advantages. But as you say, they have weaknesses that can be exploited. That's the difference. Right now, a rogue has almost no weakness that can't be covered for by his team-mates. They can run into situations that should kill and come out without even having procced cheat death, they can do guaranteed crit+70%Armour Pen damage on a 1 minute cooldown. Compare that to a warrior, for +50% crit and +50% arp they would need to use 2 gcd's and open themselves to +20% damage, and get 3 stacks of slaughter and a full rage bar first. That's a 5 minute cooldown for him. Add to all this rogues ability to stick to a target like glue and yes, people complain about them more than hunters and are right to do so.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Dundebuns View Post
    Last I saw Conc shot is being removed in MoP and the snare is being tied to Arcane shot, meaning it will have a resource cost
    They put Conc Shot back in

    Yay!

  19. #19
    Just a quick read before work, but what I'm not seeing here is that the Hunter class has a huge skill curve to it. In order to break into the ranks, you as a player have to be better, faster and smarter than that guy over there playing a warlock, mage or rogue. The class itself is far more difficult to play effectively, since regaining resources diminishes damage on the move and our main power play abilities have either a hard cast timer giving you time to duck or are on a nearly ten second cooldown. Hunter representation in the ranks is very low for a reason, and the ones you do see there are not only top of their class, they're some of the best players out there.

  20. #20
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeavline View Post
    We have Freezing trap on a 28 second CD, this trap has to be aimed and combined with another CC ability(scatter shot/Bad manners) in order to be successful, even then our trap is easily sabotaged as it has a 1-3 second deploy time where a team mate of the trap victim can easily run in and take the trap in his stead.
    Traps are still usable for area denial and for keeping someone off your ass. Drop a trap at your feet and they either have to dodge around it (giving you distance) or eat the trap. The arming time and even the activation radius have always been damned inconsistent in my experience. Sometimes I trip over the trap before it's even visible, sometimes I run right through it five seconds after it went down and nothing happens, sometimes I walk 10 yards to a side and still trigger the trap.

    I have no idea why traps are so damned inconsistent, latency maybe. Either way it's still area denial.

    Another thing to be noted with Freezing trap is that it shares CD with Frost trap(slow/root), this forces hunters to use Snake trap for slow/root. Using Snake trap is extremely risky business as it gives the affected targets a dot effect, which will break Freezing trap/scatter/Bad manner and render us unable to CC during the effect time. So compared to the spammable CC (Sheep/fear/sap) it's incredibly weak and very unforgiving if not used properly or if being sabotaged.
    I agree, but it's still a form of CC and it's still reliable, even if it's risky and generally weaker than similar forms of CC.

    As you said, very limited, bordering to useless! It gives us Sap immunity, that's it. At best, it can be used to get the time needed to ress a dead pet.
    It gives you the guaranteed first shot, unless the enemy team has some form of ranged AOE they can throw at you (Flamestrike, Death and Decay, Shadowfury, etc.) That's all it really needs to do.

    A hunter's survival is heavily dependent on several factors, which i will list below.
    1: Is Pet CC'd/Line of sight/dead? If it is, we can't Roar of sacrifice, Master's call or use any pet ability defensively.
    True, but focusing the pet is generally a bad idea. Now that pets aren't made out of wet kleenex, it just results in the hunter being given plenty of time to run out to a safe distance and/or begin turreting damage into someone while you're busy punching a monkey or spider. Even if you kill the pet, Heart of the Phoenix gives them an instant resummon effectively once per match.

    2: Is this a good moment to disengage? If we disengage in the wrong direction, away from our healer, we'll die or put our healer in a crappy position. If we disengage when enemy team still has Cd's (Shadowstep/Death grip/feral leap/ blink, etc) the DE will be undone and we'll be unable to get distance for 15 sec.
    This applies to everyone with any sort of movement skill similar to Disengage. The same restrictions and requirement for situational awareness applies to Charge, Shadowstep, Blink, etc. The only difference is that the cooldown on Disengage is very short and Disengage is much more effective than other, similar abilities when you're in a position to make use of an elevation advantage (ramps, bridges, etc.) Hell, just jumping and using Disengage at the apex of the jump gives you a few extra yards!

    Just make sure you're not going to get Charged the second you hit the button.

    3: Should i use Deterrence? Can i be peeled? Is my healer in line of sight? Have the enemy team used nuke cd's? What will i do after my Deterrence?
    If you use deterrence when the enemy hasn't used their nuke cd's, that's the first thing that will happen when deterrence comes off and you'll be forced to use use it again or waste loads of Cd's to survive ( Traps/RoS/DE).
    Again, this applies to a lot of classes. Shield Wall destroys a Warrior's damage. Divine Shield cripples a Ret's damage. Same sort of things apply - you lose ALL of your damage, but you're also ignoring a lot more damage than the Warrior and your Deterrence can't be dispelled like a Ret's bubble.

    You haven't played a hunter have you? Sometimes you Disengage and nothing happens, because you got stunned/rooted on the millisecond you used it but it will still be on cooldown! Unlike Blink, Disengage does not remove stuns/roots. DE from what hill? We're talking Arena and overall scaling here, not one lonely peak in AB.
    Every arena map except Nagrand Arena has at least one place where you can make use of elevation differences to maximize the distance Disengage moves you

    I'm going to tell you what happened here and what your warlock did wrong.
    1:He most likely stood out in the open tanking the hunter at all times, completely ignoring the obvious advantage of being a warlock, doing damage behind LoS.

    2:He failed to use portal when he got webbed and allowed the hunter to hard cast Aimed shot. Alternatively, you failed to dispel the warlock.

    3:The warlock ran too far from you and was unable to eat traps, putting you in a crappy position. Alternatively, you used trinket on Scatter shot and had to sit a full duration trap (I think this).

    Just lulz
    I wasn't trapped. I'm also not Resto, I'm Enhancement; like I said, we're just in it for our weekly points and that's it, that we lost a game didn't bother me. What bothered me was how fucking fast his HP went from almost full to almost dead in the space of 2-3 seconds, and purely from the Hunter's damage. He got caught at the corner of the casket in Lordaeron arena with the spider pet root (4 sec), I was in the process of moving towards the hunter to begin DPS on him (I had been LOSing the Hunter, who initially opened on me, and was also just beginning to reposition after catching the Feral in caster form with an instant Hex), and didn't feel he'd need a heal immediately. He basically got blown up by the Hunter, the Feral had trinketed Hex and interrupted Healing Surge with Skull Bash, and my partner died before the spider pet root ended.

    Again, it's not that we lost that bothers me, it's that Hunters are doing at least as much damage as Rogues are, and are doing it instantly and at range, and yet you never really see anyone saying anything about it.

    EDIT: In regards to Aimed Shot, I've got 4600 resil and about 40% armor on my shaman and ate a 46k Aimed Shot a day ago.
    Last edited by PizzaSHARK; 2012-06-13 at 12:00 PM.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
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