"Let the buyer beware": the decline of personal responsibility

[Pipboi]

Caviat Emptor: Let the buyer beware! For people to expect a game like Diablo 3 to be stable the first few days is completely ridiculous!

[Kamari]

While I do agree about people having to take responsibility of their own actions, your analogies are ridiculously fallacious and incomparable to the Diablo 3 issues all together.

Diablo 3 isn't McDonalds. People aren't complaining about the negative effects D3 is having on their lives.
Diablo 3 isn't an ordered "service" that was mistakenly replaced by another service. No one ordered D3, but ended up getting SC2 instead.

Diablo 3 is a game you bought but were unable to play due to the inability of the company behind it to foresee the amount of players it would have and because of the choices they had made when designing the game. "The always on DRM!" as they call it. That's not NOT taking responsibility for your actions. That's a company failing to give you the service you haven't just ordered but already paid for! Entirely different story than getting a wrong game or some other arbitrary crap.

You want analogies? I'll give you some.

Go to a restaurant; pay up; don't get your food.
Buy yourself a car; Car won't turn on unless you sit in it for 4 hours at a time.
Buy a house; Key to the only door won't work.

These are fitting analogies. Your's are not.
You're tired of people complaining? I've had it with people sticking up for these MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR companies, who make mistakes due to greed and not due to inability. If you feel like Blizzard is defensible, regarding Diablo 3's downtime, ask yourself this: Where the problems avoidable had they invested in avoiding them or not, and then come back to the question whether the failure of a company is the failure of the consumer and not the other way around.

You couldn't play for a few days... for the most sold game ever on PC. Your view on issues like this make me a really really sad panda. Do you want them to reimburse you for the amount of hours you would've played as a percentage of the total time you end of playing Diablo in your lifetime? Cause that's the FAIR way to do it if you wanna go that route. So they'll initially reimburse you for the whole game, and then you should have to pay them back in pennies and nickels the more and more hours you play. You make me head hurt with your selfishness and one track mind (me me me).

[Vanamman]

I agree that people need to take responsibility for their own stupidity more, but you're wrong about D3. The simple fact that the game smashed pre-sale records should have allowed Blizzard to have servers prepared to handle the load. Top that off with the fact that Blizzard has released an MMO with 3 expansions, and apparently learned NOTHING about how to handle the release of an online game, and you have gross negligence on the part of Blizzard. I'm not asking for my money back, but I will continue to bitch and moan until my game runs smoothly and without lag. Now, the people complaining about random loot and the length of the actual story, they can go fuck themselves. I knew what I was getting when I bought the game, but being unable to play a single player game (with a multiplayer option) on the day it's released is absolute crap, and Blizzard needs to be held accountable for that.

Online only means lag. Simple as that.

[Deleted]

Please tell me why Blizzard would ever spend the extra money for servers that would only be used for a max of a week? No company on this planet would spend that kind of money just to set them aside, never to be used again after the first week or two. You are the type of person that is completely wrong with this world. You expect everything to be handed to you on a platter and it better work damn near perfectly. Please show me a game in recent history that has launched with this many sales and has gone off without any problem. You won't be able to find one. No game that sold as many copies as Diablo 3 will ever launch without a problem. Your analogies are also wrong. Anybody that bought the game is now able to play and was able to play by the middle of the day on the 15th. If they weren't then it wasn't only a problem on Blizzard's end.

Ahh, I see. Companies are to be immune to all criticism and the fact that they fail to provide a service that was paid for is entirely the consumers fault. Very well. Thank you for clearing that up.

My analogies are spot-on. They illustrate a service that was paid for but wasn't provided. If you feel they need a sense of "time" added to them, I'll rephrase the first one:

Go to a restaurant; Pay up beforehand; Don't get your food initially; Have your food brought to you in small portions; Won't be able to eat it without disruptions; = Your fault for not going to another restaurant.

[xskarma]

I agree with you OP, it's why I like Blizz's forum responses through Zarhym/Bashiok et al. They'll treat you respectfully, but they won't take crap from you, and if you are lying, they'll expose you and make you the laughing stock of the forums. (like the people lying about having an authenticator and being hacked)

What I think has got most people butt hurt is a combination of having difficulty getting on at some of the busier times (even though you can get on, it's just takes more then 1 try), the inherent problems of being connected to a server all the time (latency issues and such) and the troubles there are with the AH. So people take all these reasons combined and feel like they have a reason to complain.

And they do. Just not a big enough reason to get a refund. The game works, for the most part, and Blizz is doing their best to fix any troubles there are. That's all you can expect from a company. What you CAN do is decide to not purchase from this company again if you feel they duped you. That's the way commerce works, and should work.

It's how it worked when games shipped in boxes and there was no internet to set straight any bugs in the software. You got a buggy game? well you thought twice about ever buying a game from that studio again. I remember games being bug free actually being something you asked around about, and if there was doubt you took a wait and see approach before you got it.

[Deleted]

Hah, sorry, I should've been more clear. Are you also in America? Or another country?

And also, are we counting maintenance? That's just something I've gotten used to with all my Blizzard games now. I've already made it a point for myself to expect not to play any of my Blizzard games until late Tuesday afternoon. :P

Raising my horns from Denmark...

Not counting maintenance, no. My issues are rather inconsistent. The first couple days, there was a 50/50-ish chance of being able to play the game for me. The following days I had no issues. The last couple of days I haven't been able to log in at all. It's rather strange, but what can you do.

[Zdrasti]

While I do agree about people having to take responsibility of their own actions, your analogies are ridiculously fallacious and incomparable to the Diablo 3 issues all together.

Diablo 3 isn't McDonalds. People aren't complaining about the negative effects D3 is having on their lives.
Diablo 3 isn't an ordered "service" that was mistakenly replaced by another service. No one ordered D3, but ended up getting SC2 instead.

Diablo 3 is a game you bought but were unable to play due to the inability of the company behind it to foresee the amount of players it would have and because of the choices they had made when designing the game. "The always on DRM!" as they call it. That's not NOT taking responsibility for your actions. That's a company failing to give you the service you haven't just ordered but already paid for! Entirely different story than getting a wrong game or some other arbitrary crap.

You want analogies? I'll give you some.

Go to a restaurant; pay up; don't get your food.
Buy yourself a car; Car won't turn on unless you sit in it for 4 hours at a time.
Buy a house; Key to the only door won't work.

These are fitting analogies. Your's are not.
You're tired of people complaining? I've had it with people sticking up for these MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR companies, who make mistakes due to greed and not due to inability. If you feel like Blizzard is defensible, regarding Diablo 3's downtime, ask yourself this: Where the problems avoidable had they invested in avoiding them or not, and then come back to the question whether the failure of a company is the failure of the consumer and not the other way around.

Bingo. Complaining is sometimes justified. This is one of those times.

[Schroedinger]

Today I am not able to log into the game. Error 37. Tried it 12+times stretched between 2 hours.
Yesterday I got DC after 15 min of playing. Could not relog. Error 37.
Before it, expected maintenance. Lag as hell, but yeah, I could play for 2 hours.
I could play on sunday. Oh, Error 37. Bad luck.
etc, etc, etc.

I have Diablo 3 since 20.5. I have barely played around 16 hours, as 75% of my time I am not able to log in to the servers. It is not my fault. I am also not complaing about gameplay, or graphics, or missing features. I am complainig about payig for a game which I am not able to play. And yes, I expect when I log during prime time to be able to play the game. If there would be a possibility to ask for a refund, I would use it. Just because I am not receiving the bought service = play time on their servers.

And on a side note. I got response to my ticket today (B-net related, not Diablo). After 11 days of sending it. 11 days.

I have made only one mistake. I bought a Blizzard product and I will not repeat it. I hoped that a game made by a different team as WoW would be better. I was wrong.

[Deleted]

You couldn't play for a few days... for the most sold game ever on PC. Your view on issues like this make me a really really sad panda. Do you want them to reimburse you for the amount of hours you would've played as a percentage of the total time you end of playing Diablo in your lifetime? Cause that's the FAIR way to do it if you wanna go that route. So they'll initially reimburse you for the whole game, and then you should have to pay them back in pennies and nickels the more and more hours you play. You make me head hurt with your selfishness and one track mind (me me me).

I'd take my time to argue with you if you could handle a proper grown-up argument. I see lots of ad hominem in your post but no case or point. I'll have you know, I'm playing devils advocate. I'm rather untouched by the issues at hand. I've been enjoying the game plenty and I still am. (When I can get in!!!!!lololololo)

However, consumer loyalty like yours doesn't blind my eyes. Credit is due were credit is due and criticism is due were criticism is due.

[TheWerebison]

I agree with you OP, it's why I like Blizz's forum responses through Zarhym/Bashiok et al. They'll treat you respectfully, but they won't take crap from you, and if you are lying, they'll expose you and make you the laughing stock of the forums. (like the people lying about having an authenticator and being hacked)

What I think has got most people butt hurt is a combination of having difficulty getting on at some of the busier times (even though you can get on, it's just takes more then 1 try), the inherent problems of being connected to a server all the time (latency issues and such) and the troubles there are with the AH. So people take all these reasons combined and feel like they have a reason to complain.

And they do. Just not a big enough reason to get a refund. The game works, for the most part, and Blizz is doing their best to fix any troubles there are. That's all you can expect from a company. What you CAN do is decide to not purchase from this company again if you feel they duped you. That's the way commerce works, and should work.

It's how it worked when games shipped in boxes and there was no internet to set straight any bugs in the software. You got a buggy game? well you thought twice about ever buying a game from that studio again. I remember games being bug free actually being something you asked around about, and if there was doubt you took a wait and see approach before you got it.

Hrm, maybe all the times I'm trying to get on just aren't the "busy" times. I've never had a problem.

I do hope that Blizzard learned their lesson about the connectivity issues, at least. And I think their customer service is fine, they're assuring us they're working on the problem, I think they're putting in more servers or something. It's not like they're saying "deal with it," they do seem to want us to enjoy our game, and try to keep this issue from turning into a total debacle.

Also, the servers might clear up sooner than people think, anyway. Already, I have friends who aren't playing it near as much, due to all the Diablo OD'ing they did in the first week. Some of them are already starting to get a bit bored, so hopefully traffic will go down a bit.

---------- Post added 2012-05-31 at 06:42 PM ----------

Raising my horns from Denmark...

Not counting maintenance, no. My issues are rather inconsistent. The first couple days, there was a 50/50-ish chance of being able to play the game for me. The following days I had no issues. The last couple of days I haven't been able to log in at all. It's rather strange, but what can you do.

Okay, then, yeah. I've heard EU definitely has issues with that, and that is a legitimate complaint. My argument was more against the people who raged about launch day stuff, as far as connectivity goes. If you're consistently having shit like that happen, that's a legitimate concern, in my book.

[Donax]

Holy shit, do show me the advertisements with those warnings! This might be a breakthrough!

You've never been to a restaurant where they told you there would be a wait? I don't think they advertise that but thanks for missing the point entirely.

[Deleted]

You've never been to a restaurant where they told you there would be a wait? I don't think they advertise that but thanks for missing the point entirely.

You claim a warning was issued. When? Where? How? Via what media?
Your point was, if a warning is issued the server downtime was justified.

Very well.
Give me the damn quote of them saying, "Don't buy our game initially, wait a day or two, servers might be busy."

Wait... They never made such a statement, did they? In which case, your argument doesn't even apply to the case of D3. Good shot. Not quite there yet.

---------- Post added 2012-05-31 at 08:48 PM ----------

Okay, then, yeah. I've heard EU definitely has issues with that, and that is a legitimate complaint. My argument was more against the people who raged about launch day stuff, as far as connectivity goes. If you're consistently having shit like that happen, that's a legitimate concern, in my book.

I haven't been let into the game yet, as of today... :P
Wonder how long it'll take.

[Zdrasti]

You claim a warning was issued. When? Where? How? Via what media?
Your point was, if a warning is issued the server downtime was justified.

Very well.
Give me the damn quote of them saying, "Don't buy our game initially, wait a day or two, servers might be busy."

Wait... They never made such a statement, did they? In which case, your argument doesn't even apply to the case of D3. Good shot. Not quite there yet.

Analogies are used to convey an idea, not to be an exact replica of the situation. Hence there will always be some differences in any analogy you bring up. People like to nitpick just for the sake of nitpicking. He's ignoring your main point and taking you off topic.

Your analogies were fairly good. His, with the exception of the wait at the restaurant, were pretty bad. Can we stop nitpicking analogies and get back to the topic =)

[Deleted]

Analogies are used to convey an idea, not to be an exact replica of the situation. Hence there will always be some differences in any analogy you bring up. People like to nitpick just for the sake of nitpicking. He's ignoring your main point and taking you off topic.

Your analogies were fairly good. His, with the exception of the wait at the restaurant, were pretty bad. Can we stop nitpicking analogies and get back to the topic =)

Sorry... :P
I get competitive rather easily, when people challenge me.

[MasterHamster]

This is what you get when buying an online game:
Access to the servers when they are available.

Nothing more and nothing less.

Brief occurences of error 37 in D3 does not, and will never, entitle you to a refund.
Ever.

[Kalfos]

You've never been to a restaurant where they told you there would be a wait? I don't think they advertise that but thanks for missing the point entirely.

But still, Post the link to these warnings about downtime. I'm dying to see them (Even tho they don't exist !)

[Donax]

You claim a warning was issued. When? Where? How? Via what media?
Your point was, if a warning is issued the server downtime was justified.

Very well.
Give me the damn quote of them saying, "Don't buy our game initially, wait a day or two, servers might be busy."

Wait... They never made such a statement, did they? In which case, your argument doesn't even apply to the case of D3. Good shot. Not quite there yet.

---------- Post added 2012-05-31 at 08:48 PM ----------



I haven't been let into the game yet, as of today... :P
Wonder how long it'll take.

This was posted on the 14th

As we’ve unlocked the Diablo III installer early, many people will be ready to log in right when the servers go live at midnight, so we’re going to be closely monitoring the impact on the service. It’s possible we’ll need to adjust the rate at which we’re logging people in to ensure a stable experience, and if we do you may see a delay when attempting to login. Please be aware that a delay of up to 40 seconds is possible while the game attempts to connect you. If your connection doesn’t succeed in 40 seconds, you’ll be presented with an Error 37 message and asked to try again. If you see this error it does in fact mean that you should try again. We’ll be working around the clock to keep you informed of any issues that are occurring through the in-game breaking news window, as well as the official forums.

I also remember them saying basically the same thing after they closed the beta servers (May 1st) when talking about launch day

---------- Post added 2012-05-31 at 12:10 PM ----------

But still, Post the link to these warnings about downtime. I'm dying to see them (Even tho they don't exist !)

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/5338...uide-5_14_2012

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...idnight-launch
this guy mentions the blog post earlier about the delays in logging in

About halfway down his blog
Blizzard had warned fans about the dreaded error 37 message last week in a blog update designed to pre-empt player complaints.

[Kalfos]

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/page__st__40

You sure? I don't see them here. Wonder why...

[Deleted]

-Cut for brevity-

So, "There might be a slight delay while logging in" is the equivalent of, "Logging in will temporarily be unavailable, impossible, and remain a feat to come by in the following days!!!"

That's as much as a warning as, "Putting a gun to your head might cause minor injuries..." Completely disregarding the fact that it'll kill you.

[mistuhbull]

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/page__st__40

You sure? I don't see them here. Wonder why...

Because MMO isn't a Diablo fansite and don't have their general blue tracker set to the D3 forums. Same reason we don't see SC2 blue posts