Windows 8 RP now available

[Djinni]

To be clear here are we talking tablet size11" touchscreens like the iPad or are we talking actual full size screens say 23"+

[Jetstream]

Sooo... when Windows 8 comes out... does that mean Windows 7 will be cheaper? I'm kinda still running Vista

[Drunkenvalley]

It could also be enhanced the same was as phones do, by adding a vibration and a key tone to give you that tactile and auditory feedback that your used to. As for positioning its just a case of having a large enough screen that you are still able to see stuff while your hands are on it, coupled with correct angling and positioning. (Think Star Trek nagivation station.)

Looking down on a screen (while) you're typing (on it) is bad. My neck'll tell you that. Beyond that touchscreens lack the third dimension; that's the big deal here that makes them enormously unattractive.

[Merite]

I type on the keyboard without looking at it. You can't do that on a touchscreen. Working with a touch device is significantly slower and practically useless if you want to get something done.

I can type on my iPhone and my 7" Samsung Galaxy tablet, both without looking, at probably 30-40 WPM, definitely a lot less than the 100+ I can push out on a keyboard, but not terrible for writing e-mails and the like.

Phones/Tablets still aren't for production and until there's some sort of RemoteFX technology that can be implemented over Cellular or WiFi, they just won't be. But one day soon, we'll have wireless thin clients that will connect to our virtualized desktop and be taken anywhere. Then you'll learn how to use a touchscreen keyboard and it won't be any issue. Or you get a full sized folding bluetooth keyboard, which they already have now.


The only piece that's missing is the network infrastructures quite frankly and we're almost there anyways. I already use ThinPCs over WAN for some things with RemoteFX, it's really great, you can't tell the difference between local and remote computer, unless there's a network issue.

[Drunkenvalley]

It's definitely something I imagine we'll see in the future, Merite, but there's a couple of odd loose ends.

Firstly, touchscreens require a slight bit of third dimension, even for just an impression of where the buttons are without looking.
Secondly, there are several rather arbitrary reasons we don't have portable devices for office-work.
Third, internet on the go still sucks, so the portability of these devices is going to be balls until that's sorted.

[Djinni]

Looking down on a screen (while) you're typing (on it) is bad. My neck'll tell you that. Beyond that touchscreens lack the third dimension; that's the big deal here that makes them enormously unattractive.

the extent of looking down as described by the Star Trek reference is no more than most people already with their mobile phones, if not less.

I don't dispute that it's am emerging technology and it certainly won't be something we can expect to see working properly at a consumer level and price by the time Windows 8 launches or even Windows 9 (assuming they follow the 7, 8, 9 trend) But most definitely something we could well see coming into the main consumer market within the next 6-10years. After all the technology already exists, it's just a question of presentation/usability.

(I also can't help thinking that this is a topic that is moving away from the original intended direction of the thread.)

[Asera]

Can you imagine playing an FPS on a touch screen with no mouse? haha,
Mouses are staying for a while.

Because FPS games are the only thing people do on modern computers right?

[Deleted]

Because FPS games are the only thing people do on modern computers right?

What?

You said it replaces the mouse... As long as there are games (like FPS) that require a mouse, the mouse will stay. So its not really replacing anything.

[Djinni]

Can you imagine playing an FPS on a touch screen with no mouse? haha,
Mouses are staying for a while.

Yeah :-) same way you do it on an Android phone or iPad/iPhone. Using gestures, movements and sensors. Or hell even game-pads like those provided for consoles. :-)

[nevermore]

I think the big issue here is that touch screens -- regardless of what you see in the movies etc. -- are simply not going to replace the keyboard and mouse UI.

It's not a resistance to change this, it's an understanding of human ergonomics. The mouse and keyboard provide tactile feedback for input, and have clues on them regarding how to find input. Moreover, in order for a screen to be useful as both an input and output, it either has to be positioned somewhere it's awkward to look at, or somewhere it's awkward to reach.

So, for standard, at your desk, in an office, workstation work, the keyboard + mouse + monitor paradigm is here to stay, or, at the very least, a paradigm where the input device is divorced from the output device. It's just how the human body works.

^ This! Large touchscreen devices for everyday use = bad idea. However, OS makers have been pushing the tablet idea for a while now, and Windows 8 is simply following the trend. OSX is becoming more and more like iOS with every single new edition... and Ubuntu with Unity, oh god let's not even go there.
I think a great solution to making our everyday lives more "tablet friendly" while maintaining the basic comfort granted by peripherals is this guy:



I've tried it once and I was puking rainbows for like half an hour. With a compatible OS (such as Windows8) this will be pure magic.
(Please don't flame me for linking an Apple product :C )

Keyboards on the other hand are here to stay for sure. Your hands require physical feedback for accurate and fast typing -- something virtual keyboards cannot do.

[Djinni]

I'm not sure I follow where the problem is with large touchscreens for everyday use in place of a desktop. Exactly how are you envisaging them?

[Hulari]

From what I've seen in some videos I don't like the look of the whole 'being connected' to something and all the social networking and chat. I really couldn't care any less about those sorts of things.

I'll give it a download non-the-less, I've got about 20GB of usage to use in 3 days so this and Max Payne 3 should fill that up :3

[Asera]

Exactly how are you envisaging them?

I'm pretty sure a lot of people are envisioning the idea of touch screens as a current desktop system, with a touchscreen monitor, and reaching up to do anything.

See, that is very impractical.

Hence why I linked the Cintiq 24HD. That's how I see some workstations evolving into, instead of currently where those particular monitors sit in front of something like a U3011 in an illustrator's studio and just complements it.

Long story short, people aren't envisioning at all. :P

[Drunkenvalley]

Long story short, people aren't envisioning at all. :P

Don't be snide. >.> There is a use for touchscreens, but I know that desktop usage is not it at all it; even the Cintiq 24HD, while very cool, is only cool for doing stuff that actually benefits from it. Which it only loosely does in the first place when drawing or doing anything where handmotions and pressure are more natural and efficient.
Honestly? A proper wacom tablet replacing the mouse is in my opinion better and more efficient.

More importantly, remember pretty much everyone use the keyboard for some amount of typing, whether it be calling people derpfaces in WoW or just to enter various NSFW addresses into their browser.

Now just how, in any conceivable way, do you benefit from touchscreens when typing? We should be bleedingly aware of how enormously efficient a keyboard is compared to writing by hand, and even moreso how it is to write while staring at the keyboard compared to knowing it by heart. With touchscreens, you get either the handwriting or the staring, or even more likely both.

[Arthzil]

I barely use Start Menu but I hate Start Screen... I'll probably delete all apps as soon as I install W8 and somehow set it to show desktop on start. Also I hope there's an auto-login function, I cba to secure computer to that extend, don't have any top secret stuff on it... Rest of the system I love but Start Screen drove me crazy in CP...

[Linkedblade]

Yeah this has been a trend. Companies are trying to merge all versions of their software to make all devices feel similar and easier to communicate with one another.

Microsoft won the race though. Windows 8 is perfect. I love the way it works. I've been playing with it the last few hours and the way integrates all social media is phenomonal.

Android is a little behind, but with Icecream Sandwich all phones and tablets will be on the same OS.

[Drunkenvalley]

Android is a little behind, but with Icecream Sandwich all phones and tablets will be on the same OS.

That'd be pretty ideal, but is far from the current situation, and even phones that can update shouldn't necessarily do so...

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

My two biggest beefs with touchscreens are you don't have the pin-point accuracy as with a mouse (the clicky part of the mouse icon is literally 1 pixel across, and you can actually see exactly what you are clicking) and the fact that every time you touch the screen, even if you wipe your hands down with one of those alcohol cleaning wipes, you are leaving huge greasy fingerprints which then smear when you use a drag-bar or want to zoom in. Changing the operating system won't change these issues either.

[Deleted]

I heard they are deleting old codes and making new ones, this new OS's gonna be faster and better! Or, at least, I hope so.

[Asera]

I replaced Win7 with the Release Preview on my travel box. I haven't had a single issue with workflow, surprisingly.

The ONLY thing I find cumbersome is shutting down the system. That's it.

It's still extremely easy to navigate and get around, even with a mouse. All my most used shortcuts work, you can still hit the windows key and search and it's just as fast as the old start menu, you can still win+r and run whatever elevated. Alt tab works better, Win tab is better than it used to be by a LONG shot.

Social media integration is pristine. The news apps are seamless and a MASSIVE step up from any kind of RSS reader before. RSS in Outlook was always cumbersome. And the sports app... I think it's the coolest thing ever.

That being said, exchange integration in the mail app just straight up doesn't work (I'm not sure but it might be because I use Exchange Server 2007, but I can't see MS not supporting that). Outlook obviously would still run on the desktop. With whatever new office suite comes out after 2010, and if it has as fluid metro integration as everything else I've used so far... I can't see how people WOULDN'T use this for a basic paper pusher position office machine.

Internet Exploder 10 is impressive so far as well. Extremely fast, no display issues so far (I bet the first restaurant site I go to will explode though, they always do). The text entry in it has some obvious things from touchscreen typing such as autocorrect, although it's FAR more accurate than the autocorrect engine on my Galaxy Nexus. Probably because it only fixes very obvious errors such as missing apostrophes, e and i reversal and whatnot.

Domain enrollment works fine.

The lock screen is much improved, I like how it displays time and weather now. It also displays messages/emails, but I don't find that as necessary as displaying a frigging clock is. It's nice to just tap the mouse to check the time rather than having to ctrl+alt+del, enter a password and go into the desktop to check, then win+l to lock again.

I have yet to test how Win8 handles multiple monitors, and to be fair I am weary of it. I can't see how it would work very well with how the screen corners are utilized.