View Poll Results: Is Jaina's new character something you're looking forward to?

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  • Yes, she needs to put the war in Warcraft

    673 63.67%
  • No, she should stay 'neutral' as she has always been

    76 7.19%
  • She should take action, but not to the extent to hate the horde.

    308 29.14%
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  1. #1021
    Yes I'm pretty sure as many things that I mentioned in the past came true like the Siege of Orgrimmar. I'm pretty sure that when Rhonin brought the Blood Elves into Dalaran he didn't expected them to do that. After all Dalaran was a Sanctuary and both sides had a peace treaty inside there. A violation using Dalaran's neutrality won't really make Rhonin happy about this.

  2. #1022
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    their intent was to win the battle
    To remove Thermore as an Alliance military and naval base, and base so close to Horde homelands

    Its unfortunate that alot of civilians happened to die at the same time, but thats war
    yes its terrible

    But I dont consider the Horde armies "evil" for doing so
    The only way I would see them like that, is if they gathered the survivors, after the battle, and staged mass excecutions

    Drek...either english isn't you first language or skipped parts of the horde video. Their AIM had always been to bomb the town. The siege. The killing of the FLIGHT MASTER. The destroying of the the ships. All to prevent anyone from escaping. Up until that point with the destruction of the tanks you could argue that they tried conventional means and then dropped the bomb as a last resort and it was regrettable that there were still civilians around.

    But what the Belf says CLEARLY indicates that the objective had ALWAYS been to drop the bomb. No "oops".

    No "we have no choice but to use it."

    The aim was simply to kill as many members of the Alliance as possible, active combatants or not. And this is what drives Jaina to the point she's at now.
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  3. #1023
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    This, Garrosh expects everyone to be fodder, propably compensating for the fact that his own race is perfect fodder.
    yeah, Blood Elves were almost wiped out by the Scourge
    and after that, even more were lost trying to secure the remains of Quetholas, and the events in Outland

    Blood Elves are very very few in number

  4. #1024
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mails-Prowers View Post
    Yes I'm pretty sure as many things that I mentioned in the past came true like the Siege of Orgrimmar. I'm pretty sure that when Rhonin brought the Blood Elves into Dalaran he didn't expected them to do that. After all Dalaran was a Sanctuary and both sides had a peace treaty inside there. A violation using Dalaran's neutrality won't really make Rhonin happy about this.
    The sunreavers could have left Dalaran as well, for all we know they no longer reside there and have simply become one more portion of Silvermoons armies.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  5. #1025
    And Dreknar we agree on one thing. That Blood Elves are too few to actually do something.

  6. #1026
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mails-Prowers View Post
    And Dreknar we agree on one thing. That Blood Elves are too few to actually do something.
    I wouldn't say that, they are still strong enough to challenge certain Kingdoms, after all 15% of their people were able to subdue the entirety of the Draenei people.

    They wouldn't be able to stand against healthy Kingdoms like Ironforge,Stormwind and Darnassus,but the rest is plausible.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  7. #1027
    What Combatbulter said. Probably the Sunreavers didn't do that from Dalaran or else the consequences would be swift.

  8. #1028
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanEX View Post
    Drek...either english isn't you first language or skipped parts of the horde video. Their AIM had always been to bomb the town. The siege. The killing of the FLIGHT MASTER. The destroying of the the ships. All to prevent anyone from escaping. Up until that point with the destruction of the tanks you could argue that they tried conventional means and then dropped the bomb as a last resort and it was regrettable that there were still civilians around.
    .
    Maybe you should check your own English before insulting me

    Their aim was to bomb the city, the attack in the beginning was a feint.
    The Commander Drosh never said anything about civilans

    Killing the flightmaster, burning warships, who says that is to prevent civilans escaping?
    He never says that
    Its to throw the defenses of Thermore into confusion

    Its like American bombers bombing civilians cities, it sucks cicvilans die, but it serves a military purpose

    On the other hand the Nazi death camps would be considered "evil"
    Because it served zero military purpose
    Hell they were even wasting military resources for the camps
    Last edited by Dreknar20; 2012-06-06 at 08:52 PM.

  9. #1029
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    yeah, Blood Elves were almost wiped out by the Scourge
    and after that, even more were lost trying to secure the remains of Quetholas, and the events in Outland

    Blood Elves are very very few in number

    The Gnomes and the Draenei say "Hi there" but again you don't see them dropping bombs.
    STRESS
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  10. #1030
    Actually no. That never happened.

  11. #1031
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Maybe you should check your own English before insulting me

    Their aim was to bomb the city, the attack in the beginning was a feint.
    The Commander Drosh never said anything about civilans

    Killing the flightmaster, burning warships, who says that is to prevent civilans escaping?
    He never says that
    Its to throw the defenses of Thermore into confusion

    How was I being insulting? I never said that he mentioned civilians I said that up to that point you could argue that it was strictly militaristic, but when you realise that the aim was always to drop the bomb it gives more credence to the theory that they wanted no survivors.

    And you just proved my point for me. The aim was always to bomb Theramore, and he gave no thought to any civilians within.
    STRESS
    The confusion caused when one's mind
    overrides the body's basic
    desire to choke the living shit out of
    some jerk who desperately needs it

  12. #1032
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanEX View Post
    How was I being insulting?

    And you just proved my point for me. The aim was always to bomb Theramore, and he gave no thought to any civilians within.
    and thats my point

    To me, that is not very "evil" in anyways. A military commanders 1st goal is to win the battle, nothing matters if you lose

    You make it seem like bombing Thermore is this incredibly evil crime, that served zero benefit to the Horde war goals

  13. #1033
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Do you not know how war works?

    If you are fighting near or on an urban area, civilians will ALWAYS die
    It is literally impossible to prevent civilian deaths or damage due to colateral damage
    here's the thing: quoting a tauren (I don't remember which, they all look the same to me), the horde is about war and honor. that bombing had no honor on it.

    had the horde amassed an army, travelled to theramore and defeated them fair and square, any civilian who got in the way of an axe would be a casuality.

    by bombing a city like that without giving them warning or oportunity to evacuate the civilians, the horde went from war to mass murder.

    garrosh said something along those lines on stonetalon. why would he be doing what he said shouldn't be done now?

    that attack was far too bad, even for a forsaken player such as myself. I don't consider the forsaken evil, but let's say they are "evil" for the sake of simplicity. in this one it's a case of "even "evil" has standards". when the forsaken bombed hillsbrad, the civilians had the oportunity to flee (though they were stupid and went to fenris to become worgen, getting killed lated by a hero with a machinegun lol). when the forsaken attack humans, they give them a second chance to join them in undeath.

    that mana bomb was just a "DIE MAGGOTS!" move. who would survive that? the average joe wouldn't. maybe a few powerful heroes, but that's it. no "join me or die" like the forsaken do, no "evacuate the civilians" like thrall did when he faced blackmoore. that was just plain murder.

    I don't know how powerful the focusing iris is. all I remember from it was me having easy pugs for maly10 by saying "I have key" on trade chat, but the new books and the DS raid make it sound powerful. even so, enough is enough.

    it was said garrosh would go too far during MoP. to me it seems he's already going too far

    now all I can say about new jaina is: it's a pity. maybe most people thought old jaina was boring, but to me she was the last character who wasn't delusional about war. she knew war would bring no good. she knew war would burn all resources from both sides (be them soldiers, gold, lumber, oil or whatever). she knew there was enough stuff for everybody if they learned to share.

    I just hope we get to kill them as a raid boss ASAP, because I'd rather not have to put up with this new jaina for too long.
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  14. #1034
    So after 52 pages the majority apart from 2 or 3 people are agreeing that Garrosh is going too far and probably all the world will be against him outside of Orgrimmay by the end of MOP for justified reasons.

  15. #1035
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    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    here's the thing: quoting a tauren (I don't remember which, they all look the same to me), the horde is about war and honor. that bombing had no honor on it.

    had the horde amassed an army, travelled to theramore and defeated them fair and square, any civilian who got in the way of an axe would be a casuality.

    by bombing a city like that without giving them warning or oportunity to evacuate the civilians, the horde went from war to mass murder.

    garrosh said something along those lines on stonetalon. why would he be doing what he said shouldn't be done now?

    that attack was far too bad, even for a forsaken player such as myself. I don't consider the forsaken evil, but let's say they are "evil" for the sake of simplicity. in this one it's a case of "even "evil" has standards". when the forsaken bombed hillsbrad, the civilians had the oportunity to flee (though they were stupid and went to fenris to become worgen, getting killed lated by a hero with a machinegun lol). when the forsaken attack humans, they give them a second chance to join them in undeath.
    .
    Giving a warning before an attack is stupid, and I should not have to explain why.

    Maybe the Horde could only attack from sea and air because it was the only chance the Horde had at victory?
    There isnt much differance between Thermore and Hillsbrad

    Humans had oppurtunity to escape the battle, the Horde launched a large attack against Theramore's docks before the bomb
    Some people, probably did run away, others probably stayed behind for whatever reason
    Last edited by Dreknar20; 2012-06-06 at 09:09 PM.

  16. #1036
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    Personally I would sooner it all those that willingly joined Garrosh's role in the seige of theramore, knowing full well the intent to use a bomb and kill everyone, will be in the raid of org and we get to kill them. Whatever the horde becomes after mists I don't want trash like that in it.

  17. #1037
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mails-Prowers View Post
    So after 52 pages the majority apart from 2 or 3 people are agreeing that Garrosh is going too far and probably all the world will be against him outside of Orgrimmay by the end of MOP for justified reasons.
    Anything can be justified if you try hard enough, yes garrosh fights his war very cruel and he will be killed because of it and things will return to "normal" until the next exceptional drought or crisis, desperate people do some real shady stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Personally I would sooner it all those that willingly joined Garrosh's role in the seige of orgrimmar, knowing full well the intent to use a bomb and kill everyone, will be in the raid of org and we get to kill them. Whatever the horde becomes after mists I don't want trash like that in it.
    You will always have such people, who knows the reasons of those individuals, monsters are not born they are made.
    Thalon for example could have been a high elf who stayed behind to fight for Lordaeron, was betrayed, left to outland came home, was forced to fight in northrend had to work with kirin tor and he sought an opportunity for payback against humanity.
    Last edited by Combatbulter; 2012-06-06 at 09:13 PM.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  18. #1038
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Giving a warning before an attack is stupid, and I should not have to explain why.

    Maybe the Horde could only attack from sea and air because it was the only chance the Horde had at victory?
    There isnt much differance between Thermore and Hillsbrad

    Humans had oppurtunity to escape the battle, the Horde launched a large attack against Theramore's docks before the bomb

    A SIEGE is a word used to describe COMPLETELY bottling in a town or camp. That's why you always hear about "breaking the siege" to get in supplies or to escape of whatever.

    So since Theramore was under SIEGE there was NO WAY to escape after their ships were destroyed, their flight master killed and their vehicles ruined. Then the bomb was dropped.

    Again, this wasn't a case of collateral damage. Collateral damage is accidental. This was intentional. This ranks right up there with the plaguing of SS and Gilneas.
    STRESS
    The confusion caused when one's mind
    overrides the body's basic
    desire to choke the living shit out of
    some jerk who desperately needs it

  19. #1039
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanEX View Post
    A SIEGE is a word used to describe COMPLETELY bottling in a town or camp. That's why you always hear about "breaking the siege" to get in supplies or to escape of whatever.

    So since Theramore was under SIEGE there was NO WAY to escape after their ships were destroyed, their flight master killed and their vehicles ruined. Then the bomb was dropped.

    Again, this wasn't a case of collateral damage. Collateral damage is accidental. This was intentional. This ranks right up there with the plaguing of SS and Gilneas.
    That is true but if we apply medival morals here, it was entirley legitimate, it was not uncommon to hurl pest infested bodies over city walls to kill the inhabitants.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  20. #1040
    Quote Originally Posted by RyanEX View Post
    Again, this wasn't a case of collateral damage. Collateral damage is accidental. This was intentional. This ranks right up there with the plaguing of SS and Gilneas.
    IMHO this bombing of theramore is much worse than anything the forsaken ever did
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

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