Poll: Is Jaina's new character something you're looking forward to?

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  1. #1061
    Another question is what transpired in order for Varian to let the Horde alone instead of crushing them completely in Orgrimmar because let's face it. The Horde will be split in two and will be shattered and the Alliance will be there in full force. There's nothing preventing the Alliance to crush what's left from the Horde after he finishes with Garrosh. I really wonder what will change?

  2. #1062
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mails-Prowers View Post
    Another question is what transpired in order for Varian to let the Horde alone instead of crushing them completely in Orgrimmar because let's face it. The Horde will be split in two and will be shattered and the Alliance will be there in full force. There's nothing preventing the Alliance to crush what's left from the Horde after he finishes with Garrosh. I really wonder what will change?
    I am not sure Varian would view full out genocide as a great idea, despite being a 24/7 angry hothead. Looks like he more of a lending a hand to help stop "good" Horde deal with their out-of-control leader.

  3. #1063
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarumuat View Post
    I am not sure Varian would view full out genocide as a great idea, despite being a 24/7 angry hothead. Looks like he more of a lending a hand to help stop "good" Horde deal with their out-of-control leader.
    Varian is moving away from the 24/7 angry hothead persona, he balanced himself in Wolfheart.

  4. #1064
    Quote Originally Posted by Mails-Prowers View Post
    Another question is what transpired in order for Varian to let the Horde alone instead of crushing them completely in Orgrimmar because let's face it. The Horde will be split in two and will be shattered and the Alliance will be there in full force. There's nothing preventing the Alliance to crush what's left from the Horde after he finishes with Garrosh. I really wonder what will change?
    Even with garrosh gone the Alliance couldn't simply crush what remains of the Horde, Orgrimmar was one capital, three others remain, which would prepare themselves for the invasion, the cost of lives would be astronomical, the moment the war started both sides were unable, to actually win it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarumuat View Post
    One thing that saddens me the most, is not the actual destruction, but that Garrosh is just the lighting rod. Kill him and forget everything else Horde has done against the Alliance. Back to Thrall being leader of the Horde, while they still control territories they conquered during Garrosh.
    Who says the Horde will keep all of the territories they conquered? Most of Ashenvale will most likely be returned, same goes for Gilneas.

  5. #1065
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    Varian is moving away from the 24/7 angry hothead persona, he balanced himself in Wolfheart.
    Forgot that. Oh, we also getting "Trials of High King" don't we?


    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Who says the Horde will keep all of the territories they conquered? Most of Ashenvale will most likely be returned, same goes for Gilneas.
    Well, I do hope Alliance will get some territories back, as an act of good will (at least lore-wise, game mechanics may never show it). What I meant mostly, was that Horde will go off easy, putting everything on Garrosh. Some sort of inner conflict would be great for Horde, with Vol'Jin and similar sort of saying "Told ya, he was no good" to some orcs etc. Just something along these lines.

  6. #1066
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarumuat View Post
    Forgot that. Oh, we also getting "Trials of High King" don't we?




    Well, I do hope Alliance will get some territories back, as an act of good will (at least lore-wise, game mechanics may never show it). What I meant mostly, was that Horde will go off easy, putting everything on Garrosh. Some sort of inner conflict would be great for Horde, with Vol'Jin and similar sort of saying "Told ya, he was no good" to some orcs etc. Just something along these lines.
    We don't know yet, but I am quite certain the orcs won't like it, since they were staunch supporters of Garrosh, while the Trolls, Tauren and Blood elves will most likely be glad the war is over and they don't have to waste their resources and people anymore. Goblins hard to tell they are most likely sad because they don't make as much profit.

  7. #1067
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    We don't know yet, but I am quite certain the orcs won't like it, since they were staunch supporters of Garrosh, while the Trolls, Tauren and Blood elves will most likely be glad the war is over and they don't have to waste their resources and people anymore. Goblins hard to tell they are most likely sad because they don't make as much profit.
    Orcs certainly will not be pleased. There are also different groups of them. In Ragefire Chasm, don't we get some update lore-wise? I was reading about Neru Fireblade and Burning Blade clan not long ago, and was thinking when will the demon-influenced part of the Horde will let itself be know.

  8. #1068
    Actually I made a mistake in stating the question.
    What I meant to say is that the Horde will probably be shattered between those who support Garrosh and those who do not support Garrosh. It will be a war between them and the Alliance is coming in full force to get rid of Garrosh.

    The question is what really transpires for Varian to let them live instead finishing them now that they are shattered?

    Is he so sure that the Horde wont betray them again in the future?

  9. #1069
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mails-Prowers View Post
    Actually I made a mistake in stating the question.
    What I meant to say is that the Horde will probably be shattered between those who support Garrosh and those who do not support Garrosh. It will be a war between them and the Alliance is coming in full force to get rid of Garrosh.

    The question is what really transpires for Varian to let them live instead finishing them now that they are shattered?

    Is he so sure that the Horde wont betray them again in the future?
    I think it will just be overlooked and not deal with in detail by writers. Although, it will certainly be interesting to look at. I remember some have said to execute the captured orcs after the Second War, but King Terenas was against it. Maybe Varian inside of him understands that Horde is just another side of the coin to the Alliance. Varian has all rights to hate the orcs, but he must still remain reasonable. Deep hatred always hit back in WoW Lore (Daelin Proudmore, now Garrosh etc)

  10. #1070
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarumuat View Post
    I think it will just be overlooked and not deal with in detail by writers. Although, it will certainly be interesting to look at. I remember some have said to execute the captured orcs after the Second War, but King Terenas was against it. Maybe Varian inside of him understands that Horde is just another side of the coin to the Alliance. Varian has all rights to hate the orcs, but he must still remain reasonable. Deep hatred always hit back in WoW Lore (Daelin Proudmore, now Garrosh etc)
    Varian was actually pro-interment camp.

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  11. #1071
    The feeling I get is that most of the Horde will turn on Garrosh. He'll probably have relatively fewer forces, but have them empowered in some way via his under org experiments or whatever's going on.

  12. #1072
    Something most people seem to be forgetting in relevance to Jaina's remarks, is that Blizzard already told us Garrosh introduced Fel Orcs into the Horde, which is pretty much paramount to breaking a Geneva Convention. When she calls the attackers monsters and abominations, maybe she's actually being literal? It would certainly explain that "Horde Shaman's" voice in the other set of voice files for the Theramore invasion, which is all-together unnatural. Then there's the Goblins, but we've known for years that they're a race who'll work for either A: The winning side, or B: The side who pays the most, but only if it's up front, so they can run off later. As for the Blood Elf Spy, well Blood Elves are already arcane infused and have a history of mana addiction, so they probably have fairly loose morals when it comes to working with Fel Orcs. Many Blood Elves in the Horde were surely former subjects of Kael'thas back in Outland, so they'd probably even welcome it.

    Maybe the Theramore invasion was Garrosh's way of cutting his Fel Orc force's teeth.
    Last edited by Kalmakk; 2012-06-07 at 12:41 PM.

  13. #1073
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scythax View Post
    is that Blizzard already told us Garrosh introduced Fel Orcs into the Horde
    Source? It's the first time I heard such thing.

  14. #1074
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    Source? It's the first time I heard such thing.
    I'm remiss for it, but I can't remember EXACTLY where I heard it from. I have a feeling it was in one of those initial press release podcast recordings made when the NDA was lifted on MoP (one of the multi-hour-long ones unfortunately). But if you do some searching you'll see that there've been seeds planted for this idea from the very beginning of Cata until MoP. Supposedly, if you go to blasted lands, there are horde-friendly Fel Orcs outside the portal from the Shattered Hand clan, which were only ever added into the game on Cata's release patch.
    Also, in MoP beta, Ragefire Chasm is filled with Fel Orcs and Fel Shaman. Perhaps Garrosh is harbouring them there in secret to avoid attention from Alliance spies.


    I know its vapour-thin evidence (and it pisses me off I can't remember the real source) but I'm CERTAIN I've heard about it. I'm dead certain I've heard about Garrosh using Fel Shaman.

  15. #1075
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Even with garrosh gone the Alliance couldn't simply crush what remains of the Horde, Orgrimmar was one capital, three others remain, which would prepare themselves for the invasion, the cost of lives would be astronomical, the moment the war started both sides were unable, to actually win it.



    Who says the Horde will keep all of the territories they conquered? Most of Ashenvale will most likely be returned, same goes for Gilneas.
    Not really consider the scenario where the Alliance says "Fuck off" if the scenario involves the "good" horde asking for help against Garrosh. The fact that they need help clearly indicates that they're spread thin. So Alliance waits until the Siege begins and then launches it's own offensive. The siegers can't leave because if they do Garrosh'll likely charge out to attack, and they can't get reinforcements because their main cities are under attack.

    Of course this assumes that the Horde ask the Alliance for help as opposed to the Alliance showing up to rumble and then deciding it's better to play nice.
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  16. #1076
    Quote Originally Posted by RyanEX View Post
    Not really consider the scenario where the Alliance says "Fuck off" if the scenario involves the "good" horde asking for help against Garrosh. The fact that they need help clearly indicates that they're spread thin. So Alliance waits until the Siege begins and then launches it's own offensive. The siegers can't leave because if they do Garrosh'll likely charge out to attack, and they can't get reinforcements because their main cities are under attack.

    Of course this assumes that the Horde ask the Alliance for help as opposed to the Alliance showing up to rumble and then deciding it's better to play nice.
    It doesn't change the fact that even if they beat the forces at Orgrimmar, they will have to subdue Thunderbluff, Undercity, the Echo Isles and Silvermoon later on, do you believe they could pull all that of? The losses would be far too great, neither side was able to win this war the moment it started.

    ---------- Post added 2012-06-07 at 01:09 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Scythax View Post
    I'm remiss for it, but I can't remember EXACTLY where I heard it from. I have a feeling it was in one of those initial press release podcast recordings made when the NDA was lifted on MoP (one of the multi-hour-long ones unfortunately). But if you do some searching you'll see that there've been seeds planted for this idea from the very beginning of Cata until MoP. Supposedly, if you go to blasted lands, there are horde-friendly Fel Orcs outside the portal from the Shattered Hand clan, which were only ever added into the game on Cata's release patch.
    Also, in MoP beta, Ragefire Chasm is filled with Fel Orcs and Fel Shaman. Perhaps Garrosh is harbouring them there in secret to avoid attention from Alliance spies.


    I know its vapour-thin evidence (and it pisses me off I can't remember the real source) but I'm CERTAIN I've heard about it. I'm dead certain I've heard about Garrosh using Fel Shaman.
    Given garrosh's reaction ingame to fel I highly doubt it. he nearly kills the player the moment he finds out you helped building a fel empowered catapult.

  17. #1077
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Given garrosh's reaction ingame to fel I highly doubt it. he nearly kills the player the moment he finds out you helped building a fel empowered catapult.
    Yep, that's why I asked for the source, since it contradicts everything that Garrosh stands against. Garrosh hates demons and everything tied to them, it's actually one of the few things that makes sense on Garrosh's character.

  18. #1078
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    Yep, that's why I asked for the source, since it contradicts everything that Garrosh stands against. Garrosh hates demons and everything tied to them, it's actually one of the few things that makes sense on Garrosh's character.
    yes, but I wouldn't put it past blizzard to destroy his last bit of sense in order to make him a villain. why would ragefire chasm get a fel orc revamp without getting a heroic version at the same time garrosh was said to be doing "terrible, terrible things under orgrimmar"?

    perhaps blizz wants him to become "fel grom 2.0" for the last battle. garrosh right now is just a very strong orc warrior, but "fel grom 1.0" was the guy who killed the demigod cenarius. he could be a worthy last boss.
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  19. #1079
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    It doesn't change the fact that even if they beat the forces at Orgrimmar, they will have to subdue Thunderbluff, Undercity, the Echo Isles and Silvermoon later on, do you believe they could pull all that of?
    The horde is nothing without the forsaken & their threat of plague bombing. Mearly a collection of broken peoples & nomatic tribes that could be wiped clean if the Alliance as a whole wanted to.
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  20. #1080
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    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    yes, but I wouldn't put it past blizzard to destroy his last bit of sense in order to make him a villain. why would ragefire chasm get a fel orc revamp without getting a heroic version at the same time garrosh was said to be doing "terrible, terrible things under orgrimmar"?

    perhaps blizz wants him to become "fel grom 2.0" for the last battle. garrosh right now is just a very strong orc warrior, but "fel grom 1.0" was the guy who killed the demigod cenarius. he could be a worthy last boss.
    I said this before, we don't know yet what is happening in Ragefire Chasm and how is connected to Garrosh. In Cata beta, the Horde Airship in Gilneas also had a Fel Orc model on it, until they changed it to a Green model of Fel Orc.

    As we stand, Garrosh abhors all fel-related things.

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