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  1. #101
    Bloodsail Admiral Duito's Avatar
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    Hey...Guys...Just play the game and shut up! =)
    If you like the class, play it...if your good with the class play it. They will never truly be nerfed because they can always...always pick there fights...just pick your fights better, attack in packs instead of 1v1..1v3, or 1v5 (I have pulled off a good 1v6 beginning of this X-pac, didn't die owned them all...good stuff)
    Come' on guys, their not going to be that bad...all though I haven't played one in beta =/
    Shall I be dramatic and say "You haven't heard the last of me,"?

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  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    There is a difference between completely passive critrating that is always there, and crit increasing passives with requirements. Shatter for example requires your target to be frozen. The crit we had on Backstab was...you know, just extra crit chance on Backstab with no requirement or us having to do anything special to enable it.
    Now your just replying to try and save face. You know I proved the point that most all others got to keep the bonus crit they had while we got 0. Also for a frost mage the target doesn't have to be "frozen" for them to get the bonus of shatter. The bottom line is we got fucked we didn't get anything at all.

    ---------- Post added 2012-06-05 at 06:18 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Duito View Post
    Come' on guys, their not going to be that bad...all though I haven't played one in beta =/
    If you had beta you would know the shit rogues are there.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    Now your just replying to try and save face. You know I proved the point that most all others got to keep the bonus crit they had while we got 0. Also for a frost mage the target doesn't have to be "frozen" for them to get the bonus of shatter. The bottom line is we got fucked we didn't get anything at all.
    I edited my previous post to make things a little more clear, apparently you completely missed the point. I'm not trying to justify that we lost our passive critrating on some abilities. I'm fully aware it's a big problem we now have to deal with that by the looks of it blizzard is completely overseeing.

    Also, shatter.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise (Eternity), Bolt, Frostfang, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Azureflame, Incinerator, Champion Legionnaire, versatile mighty infusions.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Duito View Post
    Hey...Guys...Just play the game and shut up! =)
    If you like the class, play it...if your good with the class play it. They will never truly be nerfed because they can always...always pick there fights...just pick your fights better, attack in packs instead of 1v1..1v3, or 1v5 (I have pulled off a good 1v6 beginning of this X-pac, didn't die owned them all...good stuff)
    Come' on guys, their not going to be that bad...all though I haven't played one in beta =/
    When you HAVE played Beta and done hours and hours of PvP as rogue and spent most of it being Kited around by hunters and mages or doing pathetic damage whilst taking 50k crits all over the place, THEN come back and tell me "their not going to be that bad".

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    Also, shatter.
    Also http://www.wowdb.com/spells/112965-fingers-of-frost

    Anyway we'll have to wait until 5.1 or 5.2 for any fixes so whats the point in beta for rogues.

  6. #106
    Which is a proc, not a passive +critrating on some ability. Again that's a requirement for the crit effect.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise (Eternity), Bolt, Frostfang, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Azureflame, Incinerator, Champion Legionnaire, versatile mighty infusions.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    Which is a proc, not a passive +critrating on some ability. Again that's a requirement for the crit effect.
    And all the other flat crit ratings I listed?

    Look it doesn't really matter we got screwed and theres nothing we can do about it.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    And all the other flat crit ratings I listed?
    What, just Overpower and Bloodthirst?
    Like I said before most of the flat critratings have been removed. Not all of them. Bloodthirst is a new addition and I'll give you Overpower.

    But really this is going too far off topic and doesn't contribute anything. If you feel this is important enough to discuss you are more than welcome to PM me about it. But this topic is meant to discuss Rogues in the MoP beta.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise (Eternity), Bolt, Frostfang, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Azureflame, Incinerator, Champion Legionnaire, versatile mighty infusions.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    Now your just replying to try and save face.
    Yea, he is. There are still classes and specs with stuff built in, crit wise, and we aren't one for no compelling or stated reason.

    My argument is... that can be BETTER. I mean, say you do a shadowdance right now and everything crits. That's about what you expect right? I mean, it's good damage, but it's clear that it is balanced around all those ambushes critting. Meanwhile, a string of non-crit backstabs in pvp as sub can really hurt you too right?

    With lower crit ratings, this means that the moves have higher base damage. If they don't, then our dps will be terrible, something that they (presumably) watch for. A shadowdance where you crit a lot should end up being VERY threatening, is my point, even if that is not every dance, and wouldn't it be nice if your dance damage could vary by a lot, for the purpose of getting an enemy to actually die?


    They will never truly be nerfed because they can always...always pick there fights...just pick your fights better, attack in packs instead of 1v1..1v3, or 1v5 (I have pulled off a good 1v6 beginning of this X-pac, didn't die owned them all...good stuff)
    Winning a 1 v 6 fight is ludicrous. Trust me, it wasn't cause you had a rogue, it's because at least six of those six people are absolutely terrible.

    Lines like this are pretty terrible from the get-go. Implying that rogues are capable of taking out entire groups of people without a substantial skill and gear differential (aka, the same restrictions that would allow ANY class to kill an entire dungeon group), is pretty hard core class based hate.

    Personally? I want to be able to win 1v1. I play a class and a spec that are supposed to be able to do exactly that. I know Blizzard doesn't care much about 1v1, but at the same time, there's a lot of amazing 1v1 specs out there, and sub at least should absolutely be one- though I'd prefer if my whole class was a 1v1 god, I'll settle for a single spec. If the advice Blizzard isn't saying to rogues is "be sure to team up in a 2v1 situation if you play a rogue!", I think most rogues would feel fully justified in taking a break.

    My point is more, Blizzard wouldn't have that as a design goal. And since beta rogues are... not exactly tops, one assumes that they are still working on us.
    And by the way- I actually DO think that we will ship at least slightly gimp. Not because we are gimp now- because we have started EVERY expac gimp. We've needed early buffs in every expansion. Maybe they are terrible at picking numbers, maybe they are trying to keep rogue numbers low, maybe they are trying to discourage rogues from engaging in world pvp on level up, I honestly have no idea. But if they WERE doing this, they sure wouldn't fess up!

  10. #110
    I'll admit, it's seeming more and more that they consider the position rogues are in to be fine. Patch after patch and 0 changes for rogues at all. I'm not talking number changes of course, I mean mechanic changes to fix issues that are painfully obvious to anyone who's played a rogue in beta for any period of time.

    I predict that the lv. 90 talents we have today are the ones we'll have on release, and the excitement I felt for Anticipation (and only Anticipation) was completely squashed when I saw that all specs of Paladins get the ability to bank 2 extra charges Holy Power on themselves, without needing to spend a talent, at lv. 85, and without the ridiculous constraints that Anticipation has (http://mop.wowhead.com/spell=115675).

    And every time I hear Blizzard say "we don't want CPs on the rogue" (as has been stated multiple times) then turn around and give another class combo points on their character it makes me a sad, sad rogue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightfist View Post
    The truth of the matter is, you have no proof for this and are just generating facts.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    With lower crit ratings, this means that the moves have higher base damage. If they don't, then our dps will be terrible, something that they (presumably) watch for. A shadowdance where you crit a lot should end up being VERY threatening, is my point, even if that is not every dance, and wouldn't it be nice if your dance damage could vary by a lot, for the purpose of getting an enemy to actually die?
    I don't think they will ever buff ambush enough to make up for the loss being able to make it 100% crit. Ambush does more dmg on beta than live now but to match live's overall ambush dmg you have to have it crit atleast 50% of the time. This will make shadowdance terrible in the first few tiers and maybe good after that add to this things like Sanguinary Vein and sub probably won't get played in pve at all and we already know its dead in pvp on beta.

    Mean while ferals get things like "Glyph of Shred While Berserk or Tiger's Fury is active, Shred has no positional requirement." and "Incarnation allows the use of all abilities which normally require stealth, allows the use of Prowl while in combat, and removes the positional requirement of Ravage." And ravage also kept all its crit.. So they get a better shadowdance while our's gets to be crap for 90% of the expansion.
    Last edited by wow; 2012-06-05 at 11:20 PM.

  12. #112
    Build 15752 Rogue patch notes :


    Looking forward to it.
    Shadow Walk : Significantly increases Stealth effectiveness for 6 sec, but causes Stealth to be nerfed to justify its usage. In addition, it uses old Enveloping Shadows icon and has no sound, animation or spell effect to show that the skill is actually doing something.

  13. #113
    all im concerned of is, rogues being still godlike in pvp. hope they lay hands on that.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by diphji View Post
    all im concerned of is, rogues being still godlike in pvp. hope they lay hands on that.
    I also hope rogues become like gods in pvp, holding their opponents still and denying them the use of their hands with stuns.

    You might have meant something different, but your post is incoherent, and if you meant anything much different it's probably just you stopping in to try to shit on rogues and QQ because we are actually good on live, and this thread has nothing to do with live.

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