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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    TL: DR : Clocks measure quartz pulses, not time particles
    No one is saying that time has particles. This is another example of people using semantics to argue time isn't real. The sequence of quartz pulses is time.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by kailtas View Post
    Ever heard of ''the double slit'' experiment?

    It shows that the act of observing may have an impact on the universe.
    The double slit experiment, which demonstrates basic traits of quantum theory, has no relevance to the post you quoted, so I am unsure what you are trying to say.
    Measuring quantum objects in superposition destroys said superposition. That is a fact. I fail to see what this has to do with the reality of time.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    No one is saying that time has particles. This is another example of people using semantics to argue time isn't real. The sequence of quartz pulses is time.
    Yes but they can't create time. It's just steady rhythm. On the other hand you can have something measurable like an atom (mass) which can be split releasing something else measurable (energy). Counting steady beats =/= measuring time itself (like something tangible)

    Measuring "other things" is by measuring the very things themselves. Mass can be measured, distance is one edge of mass to another edge etc. Clocks measure pulsing quartz but not time itself because you can't measure time itself.

    I have it in my head but I can't put it out in words :P


  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    Yes but they can't create time.
    No, but I'm not sure how that's relevant.


    Clocks measure pulsing quartz but not time itself because you can't measure time itself.
    Not sure there is a meaningful distinction here.
    Last edited by semaphore; 2012-06-04 at 12:38 AM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    No, but I'm not sure how that's relevant.



    Not sure there is a meaningful distinction here.
    Other than my last post I can't explain my thinking any better. Time for me is like the Bible, it's self-proving. We use clocks to measure time in order to prove that time exists while at them same time they don't even measure time itself.

    Normally you put a 5kg weight on a scale to measure 5kg. You don't put a paper that writes 5kg and say it's the same thing. Clocks don't measure something around them that makes them all synchronized and correct.

    Edit: Something else that makes me sceptical about time is that it's relative and dependant on speed of light. Sunlight takes 8min to reach the Earth. So by looking at the Sun you are always looking at 8min before what it's real. How can something be anything but illusion when its not constant?
    Last edited by Juvencus; 2012-06-04 at 12:54 AM.


  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    Other than my last post I can't explain my thinking any better. Time for me is like the Bible, it's self-proving.
    This discussion suddenly took a very bad turn, let's put it back on track.


    We use clocks to measure time in order to prove that time exists while at them same time they don't even measure time itself.

    Normally you put a 5kg weight on a scale to measure 5kg. You don't put a paper that writes 5kg and say it's the same thing. Clocks don't measure something around them that makes them all synchronized and correct.
    Well, we don't use clocks to prove that time exists, any more than we use a scale to prove that mass exists. You're right that a piece of paper is not 5kg just because someone says it is 5kg, but we can invent a new system of measurement and define the weight of a peice of paper to be 5kg. That doesn't invalidate the existence of mass.


    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    Edit: Something else that makes me sceptical about time is that it's relative and dependant on speed of light. Sunlight takes 8min to reach the Earth. So by looking at the Sun you are always looking at 8min before what it's real. How can something be anything but illusion when its not constant?
    Could you elaborate? If I mail something to you and it takes 8 days to arrive, that doesn't mean the package isn't real.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    Well, we don't use clocks to prove that time exists, any more than we use a scale to prove that mass exists. You're right that a piece of paper is not 5kg just because someone says it is 5kg, but we can invent a new system of measurement and define the weight of a peice of paper to be 5kg. That doesn't invalidate the existence of mass.


    Could you elaborate? If I mail something to you and it takes 8 days to arrive, that doesn't mean the package isn't real.
    My bad shouldn't have brought up religion subjects. No, the light (package) is real. It's just time is relative depending where you are, like when traveling at speed of light, as explained at OP.
    If the light takes 8min to reach the earth, it means that the image and position of the Sun is made of the sunlight that traveled 8min before and has just arrived.

    Time is a measurement to facilitate human actions, just like weight. My weight on Earth is not that same as my weight on Mars, but my mass remains constant.
    So just like weight is a "false" measurement, so is time an illusion of the elaborate brain when trying to make connections and understand its environment.

    This is my view of the subject and its backed up by many scientists, but just like anything else controversial the opposite view is also backed up and I'm not trying to change your opinion. I'm just trying to show you there is a valid reason I believe in this.


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