Merge Divine Storm & Inquisition

[Austilias]

I personally don't see much of an argument for inquisition existing any more. I cite, as always, the likes of DK's/Warriors who are by default at 100% capacity if you include Battle Shout/HoW, which are free and last longer than their respective CD's (And please don't say DK's have to spend 'hard earned resources' on keeping up diseases, they removed the need for that with Outbreak). As it is, Paladins are at 70% capacity by default, and Feral druids/Rogues aren't much better (Paladins needing to spend 3 HP on Inq/Druids needing to maintain a plethora of bleeds/spells such as Ferocious Roar/Rogues having to maintain SnD, Rupture and Recup, depending on your spec), so there really is little justification for what are, quite frankly, clunky CD's.

If "Keep up all the CD's!" constitutes fun, then I despair for the lost meaning of the word.

[iadamson]

I personally don't see much of an argument for inquisition existing any more. I cite, as always, the likes of DK's/Warriors who are by default at 100% capacity if you include Battle Shout/HoW, which are free and last longer than their respective CD's (And please don't say DK's have to spend 'hard earned resources' on keeping up diseases, they removed the need for that with Outbreak). As it is, Paladins are at 70% capacity by default, and Feral druids/Rogues aren't much better (Paladins needing to spend 3 HP on Inq/Druids needing to maintain a plethora of bleeds/spells such as Ferocious Roar/Rogues having to maintain SnD, Rupture and Recup, depending on your spec), so there really is little justification for what are, quite frankly, clunky CD's.

If "Keep up all the CD's!" constitutes fun, then I despair for the lost meaning of the word.

Yeah I'd support just completely getting rid of it.

I'd like to see Divine Storm back in our rotation though but I could live without it. I miss my swirly hammers in pvp

[Deleted]

I fell in love with my paladin when we no longer had to juggle seals. Not one paladin is struggling with one single buff nor is it something that has been part of the paladin toolkit for a long time. It is not a staple of this class and it really isn't needed. Warriors/Ret Paladins are all about hitting things hard, to be blunt about it. I do not play a Spriest, DK, Warlock, Rogue for the reason that they have dots/buffs to maintain. This does not mean I cant do it or even struggle with it, I have alts of every class it is just that it is not interesting game play, at least to me. So taking classes who have had game play styles practically since vanilla and comparing it to the change that paladins got in Cataclysm is NOT a fair comparison.

Blizzard frankly doesn't seem to give a rats ass about what kind of gameplay you find interesting. My main being a rogue, we seem to have a dark patch coming up because they feel like Sub-rogues need to have 25% of their damage cleanly REMOVED if a certain debuff isn't present on their target. (Rupture)
They seem rather contempt with that idea, despite the entire community being against it. But hey, that's life.

You fail to realize that design philosophies change. What once was won't necessarily still be the following day. Apparently the devs thought it was necessary for every class to track the uptime of some debuff/buff, thus changing the classes that didn't already adhere to that philosophy as they went along. Paladins happened to be one such class.

It is ENTIRELY fair to compare classes, no matter when the gameplay mechanics were introduced. The fact that you were able to faceroll dps since Vanilla just proves the point; You needed to be dragged down to everyone else's level. What isn't FAIR is the fact that you are able to deal your maximum damage with no worry in the world. Nothing to keep track of. Nothing to punish your numbers if you made a mistake.

And no, the "role" of paladins is no valid argument either. Have you ever played a Frost DK? The speed at which runes and Runic Power is generated is astonishing. The endless stream of Obliterates and Frost Strikes rushing out of the DK decimate any target he lays eyes upon. Yet... If his plagues aren't on said target, his Obliterate loses 25% of its damage.

That's a Frost DK. The epitome of single target destruction. Had their plagues been removed, god they'd be fun to play. No damage loses on target switches and instant 70k+ crits. But no, they're punished as well for not paying attention. And you should be no different.

EDIT: As for your suggestion itself, it would never make it to live. It's a useless change. The fact that the buff would pretty much be present at all times makes it arbitrary; They might as well reroll it into your abilities and get it over with. And they sure as hell won't do that. So at best, if you're that desperate to have it removed, you'd likely end up losing it as a buff and getting something else to track in its stead.

[Pope]

I'm sorry, but why even post if 1)You didn't read replies and 2)Not that into paladins? Don't get me wrong I'm all for players of all skill levels and experiences giving their opinion, but if you neither cared enough to read the responses, which btw some are well thought out, on top of not caring about the class or inner workings why even post?

Like I said, it's a great idea. It frees one action button, a boring buff you have to maintain gets a bit more interesting, that's a win in my book.
I'm sorry that I'm not an expert in paladins, at least I said it before.

And I didn't read the replys because apparently, judging from Malthanis' post, they're filled with flaming and class bashing. Didn't want to read that.

You don't need a degree in Paladinism to see that his idea is good. It might need some tweaking, but it's good.

Edit: Now that I read the other replys:
Why did you make me read that shit? "I miss facerolling" ?

[HatsHatsHats]

The problem I have with Inq and the feral equiv is that they require combo points/holy power, meaning when it reaches 10seconds in duration I have to make sure my next 3 holy power or 5 combo points are going towards it. But these dont always line up correctly then I'm losing uptime on energy consumption or I'm wasting holy power by not crusader striking/striking when I have 3 HP OR using it when it's at like 7 seconds instead of 1-2 to avoid losing HP. The warlock equiv is improved soulfire which I just learned to cast when my buff is at 3 seconds, and I often have free soulfires which make keeping it up a lot less of a pain and I feel that Paladins and Druids could take a hint from that

[Deleted]

I personally don't see much of an argument for inquisition existing any more. I cite, as always, the likes of DK's/Warriors who are by default at 100% capacity if you include Battle Shout/HoW, which are free and last longer than their respective CD's (And please don't say DK's have to spend 'hard earned resources' on keeping up diseases, they removed the need for that with Outbreak). As it is, Paladins are at 70% capacity by default, and Feral druids/Rogues aren't much better (Paladins needing to spend 3 HP on Inq/Druids needing to maintain a plethora of bleeds/spells such as Ferocious Roar/Rogues having to maintain SnD, Rupture and Recup, depending on your spec), so there really is little justification for what are, quite frankly, clunky CD's.

If "Keep up all the CD's!" constitutes fun, then I despair for the lost meaning of the word.

Wrong. Outbreak grants you diseases for the next 30 seconds. (Depending on your spec) Now, as a tank, Outbreak will have a 30 second cooldown, granting you free diseases applications. But tanks don't dps...

Unholy DK's will have free plagues if their rotation is properly manages, but they have to track their resources, Death Coils, and Dark Transformations more intensely to not end up in a resource starved state.

Frost DK's have the full 1 minutes cooldown on Outbreak, meaning they'll have to spend 1 Rune on the one plague that isn't refreshed by the spec; Which means one Obliterate might disappear in the sea of RNG; Which means multiple Frost Strikes might disappear to RNG; Which means less Runes will be regenerated due to RNG, which means the spec in general might suffer heavy blows due to RNG. Outbreak only grants you the initial diseases. The following diseases have to be maintained by one self and the repercussions of not doing so are quite immense.

[Deleted]

What if I need the Holy damage buff and can't AoE, for whatever reason (CC, mechanics, Aggro etc)? That and ''It may as well not exist''? Oh ok, let's just make TV cost nothing and have no sort of CD while we're at it. Those may as well not exist either. Hell, what's with all this melee range nonsense anyway? That needn't be ingame. I'll just attack from 30 yards away.

It's a ramp up delay on our maximum damage/threat and its maintenance is one of the only skill cap factors to playing the class at the moment. Removing it would make the class even more simplistic, and not one of you has suggested a decent alternative besides ''making it go away''.

Don't suggest removing it/folding it into another move impractically when you can't even justify it. You're making us look bad.

[thedingleberry]

Bad idea. With it, I would have to AOE in order to activate Inquisition benefits. Very bad for CC. Try again.

[iadamson]

EDIT: As for your suggestion itself, it would never make it to live. It's a useless change. The fact that the buff would pretty much be present at all times makes it arbitrary; They might as well reroll it into your abilities and get it over with. And they sure as hell won't do that. So at best, if you're that desperate to have it removed, you'd likely end up losing it as a buff and getting something else to track in its stead.

Although I pretty much agree with you here.
I'm gonna soften your statement a little because it's a little over the top.

Okay, so it may seem a little arbitrary. However the player is still going to have to decide when to TV or to DS just as they do with already. In this case though DS also represent INQS. A lesser player may not know this or perhaps even use less holy power on DS to maintain INQS. As of right now you're only using abilities when you have 3 holy power for DS and INQS and TV its arbitrary in itself to having lesser variations of these abilities when they only get used at their peek.

Putting INQS into DS is pretty much exactly what you're saying, its rerolling it into an ability, in this case DS.

You say its arbitrary but we're already keeping it up all the time as it is. Baking it into DS just simply makes it easier, and fills that damage free gap time in pvp.

---------- Post added 2012-06-04 at 02:58 PM ----------

What if I need the Holy damage buff and can't AoE, for whatever reason (CC, mechanics, Aggro etc)? That and ''It may as well not exist''? Oh ok, let's just make TV cost nothing and have no sort of CD while we're at it. Those may as well not exist either. Hell, what's with all this melee range nonsense anyway? That needn't be ingame.

It's a ramp up delay on our maximum damage/threat and its maintenance is one of the only skill cap factors to playing the class at the moment. Don't suggest removing it/folding it into another move impractically when you can't even justify it. You're making us look bad.

I duno make it so it doesn't effect CC targets?
Pretty sure DS was fixed so it wouldn't hit CC'd targets in wrath, so it didn't break sheep in arena.

[HatsHatsHats]

Wrong. Outbreak grants you diseases for the next 30 seconds. (Depending on your spec) Now, as a tank, Outbreak will have a 30 second cooldown, granting you free diseases applications. But tanks don't dps...

Unholy DK's will have free plagues if their rotation is properly manages, but they have to track their resources, Death Coils, and Dark Transformations more intensely to not end up in a resource starved state.

Frost DK's have the full 1 minutes cooldown on Outbreak, meaning they'll have to spend 1 Rune on the one plague that isn't refreshed by the spec; Which means one Obliterate might disappear in the sea of RNG; Which means multiple Frost Strikes might disappear to RNG; Which means less Runes will be regenerated due to RNG, which means the spec in general might suffer heavy blows due to RNG. Outbreak only grants you the initial diseases. The following diseases have to be maintained by one self and the repercussions of not doing so are quite immense.

Spending one unholy rune a minute doesn't compare to all the problems other classes face

[iadamson]

Bad idea. With it, I would have to AOE in order to activate Inquisition benefits. Very bad for CC. Try again.

I mean there are ways around this.
You may not need to hit more then 1 target to activate this plus if ur on a boss.
perhaps just pushing divine storm and hitting no one would trigger INQS.
Back in wrath you could use DS and it would do its animation and cause no damage.

[Deleted]

People who keep saying retri is boring probably use CLCinfo or CLCret, what a surprise it's boring, you do 0 thinking.
We're finally getting rid of stupid AoEs on our single target rotation, and you guys want to add one, it's like you have no thinking process and just come up with these ridiculous ideas while in the bathroom.
Inquisition is fine, without it you might as well remove Holy Power for Retribution because all you'd do is TV after TV after TV after TV, yeah, great gameplay, gimme a break. A buff on ourselves is 10 times better then a debuff on the target, if Inquisition would be replaced by some sort of DoT, you'd complain that you need to waste 3HP everytime you switch targets and would demand a redirect ability.

I understand they didn't want ret to be a wack mole, cooldown class... but if you think about it... we need atleast one class/ spec to fill in that hole and ret was good at it. The game no longer has that, regardless if it lacked skill etc, it was fun and it's what players liked.

YOU might need a spec that you can just roll your face on the keyboard and kill stuff, if that's all you're capable of, but some of us prefer to actually exercise some sort of thinking. Stop talking as if you were elected by the playerbase to decide what we liked or not, if anything, you speak for the half dozen of facerollers still around.

[Deleted]

Spending one unholy rune a minute doesn't compare to all the problems other classes face

It doesn't? How so?

You generate holy power; You interrupt your rotation to keep up a buff.
You generate Combo Points; You interrupt your rotation to keep up one or more buffs.
You generate Runes; You interrupt your rotation to keep up a buff.

Not just that but using that one Rune might very well affect your rotation later on. < That is a problem the other classes don't face. So yes, it is very comparable.

[NoDat]

I would really like to find all the people who complained about the Ret rotation during Wraith. Rets current rotation drove me to Enhance Sham for Cata because it didn't flow at all IMO. I have played every melee class in game and Ret took a big a step back in Cata.

[Clash the DK]

Adding Inquisition to Word of Glory is a fantastic idea!

This way we could at least see it do something at times. It would be a nice almost passive heal for PVE. But more importantly, it would jive very well in PvP. Don't get me wrong; I'd rather see Inquisition flat removed. But, that's not going to happen. So, I think a merge with WoG would be truly awesome.

And for the record, adding Inquisition to Divine Storm would be a bad idea. We do not need a mandatory AOE ability in our single target rotation. Go ask Death Knights how they feel about needing to cast Howling Blast in their single target rotation. It can be a real pain.

[Deleted]

Although I pretty much agree with you here.
I'm gonna soften your statement a little because it's a little over the top.

Okay, so it may seem a little arbitrary. However the player is still going to have to decide when to TV or to DS just as they do with already. In this case though DS also represent INQS. A lesser player may not know this or perhaps even use less holy power on DS to maintain INQS. As of right now you're only using abilities when you have 3 holy power for DS and INQS and TV its arbitrary in itself to having lesser variations of these abilities when they only get used at their peek.

Putting INQS into DS is pretty much exactly what you're saying, its rerolling it into an ability, in this case DS.

You say its arbitrary but we're already keeping it up all the time as it is. Baking it into DS just simply makes it easier, and fills that damage free gap time in pvp.

Not comparable, you're keeping it up manually. That's what they want. They don't want it to be an automated buff. If they went through with your idea, people would quickly get their heads around the optimal dps cycles. (I.e. something ala after every third TV you need to DS...) It would just become an automated buff, which again, makes the buff completely arbitrary.

And that's not what I meant by "reroll it into your abilities". By that I meant "all your abilities do 30% increased holy damage by default" instead of doing so due to a buff.

Which reminds me, DS is currently an integral part part of your AOE rotation. Let's say they grant you this change. What's your AOE rotation going to be like?

[Austilias]

Not comparable, you're keeping it up manually. That's what they want. They don't want it to be an automated buff. If they went through with your idea, people would quickly get their heads around the optimal dps cycles. (I.e. something ala after every third TV you need to DS...) It would just become an automated buff, which again, makes the buff completely arbitrary.

Auto-refresh SnD in Assassination would like a word with you.

[Deleted]

Auto-refresh SnD in Assassination would like a word with you.

Manual refreshing of Rupture and the Envenom buff would like to have sex with me as well. Let alone the fact that SnD is still manually applied and has to be maintained by the player through constant Envenoms.

Don't school me on my own class lol.

[Tauren]

godly idea

also divine storm was fucking awesome in wrath and shit in cata and above. so aoe in single target who gives a shit. all of the sudden developers get a huge hatrted towards aoe in single target out of the blue even though it has never been a problem. they cou

[Divineknight13]

i do love how people complain about the inq mechanics lol?

would you like someone to spoon feed you while u dps aswell?

its extra damage that u have to think about and setup so our rotation isnt just 1234123412341234 like arms warriors and im pretty sure they track lambs too

im a little reluctant to see what the updated changes for ds are but i always felt that it should have generated holy power from 3 targets + instead of 4