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  1. #81
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rewn View Post
    Except Healing Surge heals for roughly double on beta than it does on Live, meaning healing abilites, even without the glyph of healing storm will still be quite potent. Added to that SBT/Astral Shift etc as well as several healing totems and new abilities, shaman survivibility will increase by a ton.
    For soloing, for instance, Ancestral Guidance and the new HST in particular will be VERY good self-healing, without reducing your ability to burn down the target; both continue to provide healing over time while you're doing damage, for a single GCD's cost. You can also take Ancestral Swiftness, potentially, for the additional chance to use it for an instant heal cast without Maelstrom stacks.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    For soloing, for instance, Ancestral Guidance and the new HST in particular will be VERY good self-healing, without reducing your ability to burn down the target; both continue to provide healing over time while you're doing damage, for a single GCD's cost. You can also take Ancestral Swiftness, potentially, for the additional chance to use it for an instant heal cast without Maelstrom stacks.
    Exactly this. Not to mention that from the looks of things, in T14 gear, we will easily be seeing 45k+ dps at the beginning of the expansion, which will trivialise some content and make CD's like Ancestral Guidence even more potent. Throw in Echo of the elements for a 30% chance to double heal when you have to use Healing Surge (paired with Glyph of Healing Storm) and you've got some pretty amazing instant self healing. Things are definitely looking up for shamans in Mists so far.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by rewn View Post
    Exactly this. Not to mention that from the looks of things, in T14 gear, we will easily be seeing 45k+ dps at the beginning of the expansion, which will trivialise some content and make CD's like Ancestral Guidence even more potent. Throw in Echo of the elements for a 30% chance to double heal when you have to use Healing Surge (paired with Glyph of Healing Storm) and you've got some pretty amazing instant self healing. Things are definitely looking up for shamans in Mists so far.
    We'll only be missing ONE thing to be close to other classes in soloing: Immunity to crits. Right now in Ulduar I can get crit for 45k melee white hits on Auriaya and Freya. That's a big chunk of our health. It would be awesome if we could have a glyph that makes us immune to critical strikes, but also a counterpart to make it useless in PVP.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarasun View Post
    We'll only be missing ONE thing to be close to other classes in soloing: Immunity to crits. Right now in Ulduar I can get crit for 45k melee white hits on Auriaya and Freya. That's a big chunk of our health. It would be awesome if we could have a glyph that makes us immune to critical strikes, but also a counterpart to make it useless in PVP.
    I disagree. I mean, right now of course it's making things more difficult, but seeing as you've managed to kill her despite those 45k crits and that in mists, as both Endus and myself pointed out above, we will be gaining a mass of new tools from damage reduction CD's and healing abilities which will make it even easier. Added to that, that at level 90 you'll have about 40k+ dps easily AND over 300k hp (at least, in pvp gear on beta right now people are easily closing up to 400k already), those 45k crits are going to be neglible (especially given how rare they are).

  5. #85
    Hence why I said "initally" :P (ie. before we reach 90 with pre-raid gear, 10000 dps weapons and enough hit/expertise)

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by rewn View Post
    I disagree. I mean, right now of course it's making things more difficult, but seeing as you've managed to kill her despite those 45k crits and that in mists, as both Endus and myself pointed out above, we will be gaining a mass of new tools from damage reduction CD's and healing abilities which will make it even easier. Added to that, that at level 90 you'll have about 40k+ dps easily AND over 300k hp (at least, in pvp gear on beta right now people are easily closing up to 400k already), those 45k crits are going to be neglible (especially given how rare they are).
    I was comparing us with other good soloing classes (Blood DKs, Feral Druids, Hunters, heck even Prot Paladins). If we don't get this crit immunity, they will always be ahead of us because of the RNG aspect of it. Shamans rely too much on RNG for survival: Relatively low dodge chance (20%ish), chance to get crit, RNG on Maelstrom Weapon, with MOP will be added RNG on duplicated spells. I think, if you removed the crit aspect, the RNG part would be in a good spot.

    I'm just dreaming of a mechanic that would make us as good as those classes (I know it won't happen)

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarasun View Post
    I was comparing us with other good soloing classes (Blood DKs, Feral Druids, Hunters, heck even Prot Paladins). If we don't get this crit immunity, they will always be ahead of us because of the RNG aspect of it. Shamans rely too much on RNG for survival: Relatively low dodge chance (20%ish), chance to get crit, RNG on Maelstrom Weapon, with MOP will be added RNG on duplicated spells. I think, if you removed the crit aspect, the RNG part would be in a good spot.

    I'm just dreaming of a mechanic that would make us as good as those classes (I know it won't happen)
    I tend not to hope for such things as really, Soloing isn't really something the developers try to work around, and hoping for the ability to solo like a blood dk is just asking to be disappointed Besides, I enjoy playing a variety of classes so I can always go and solo on my own blood DK if I really wanted to

    As for the whole RNG business, well, yes and no. As I've already pointed out, Mists is giving us a few on demand heals and defensive CD's and all of them pretty much require a single click and work alongside us while we continue to dps. Maelstrom weapon, while being randomly generated, has a high enough proc chance that you can't really complain about it. I mean really, if you go 10-12 seconds without gaining 5 stacks, your luck just absolutely sucks And Echos 30% chance to duplicate a spell isn't too bad either. Is it still RNG? Yes. Does it have a high enough proc chance to still be reliable? Yup it does. Blood DK's are infact a prime example of that. Their main source of regenerated runes for Death Strike comes from Runic Empowerment, which is a RNG based mechanic which is almost limited by a DK's runic power generation.

    What I'm really saying here though is that atm we do have a bit of RNG and even in mists, alot of our self healing and such will still be RNG based, but the chances of those triggering are at such a high rate that they can be relied upon and that own example of Blood DK's being good tanks is proof of that in a way.

  8. #88
    I bet you could get twin emps down the same way i do it (as a warlock) you'll have to go elemental for it though.

    Basicly you need to obtain an item that spawns something to tank the melee guy (Vanquished clutches of yogg-saron from alone in the darkness yogg 10 works great) you get close to the melee guy without agroing and spawn it. YOu keep spawning it till you get the big tentacle (More hp, so more time to burn the caster) Once you get the right one pull and drop everything you got on the caster (heroism elementals etc whatever Ele shamans have) Hopefully you can burn him down quick enough!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQevH9jcIrA

    This isn't my video and full credits go to the author spygnesy

    but it shows the general idea! Hope it helps =D
    I play many games. WoW, Rift, D3, PoE, SC2 I will not criticize your game choice if you don't mine.

  9. #89
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarasun View Post
    I was comparing us with other good soloing classes (Blood DKs, Feral Druids, Hunters, heck even Prot Paladins).
    Every spec you mentioned, with the exception of Hunters, are tanks. That's why they get crit immunity; it's a tank thing.

    If we don't get this crit immunity, they will always be ahead of us because of the RNG aspect of it. Shamans rely too much on RNG for survival: Relatively low dodge chance (20%ish), chance to get crit, RNG on Maelstrom Weapon, with MOP will be added RNG on duplicated spells. I think, if you removed the crit aspect, the RNG part would be in a good spot.
    You only have "added RNG" if you take Echo of the Elements. There's two other options to go with. You also have stronger self-healing than some of those other specs. And the RNG on Maelstrom Weapon is being overblown; it's not truly random, it's a PPM mechanic.

  10. #90
    How about warriors being crit immune and unable to solo anything past Ragefire Chasm
    Cairne wanted to thank him again, to offer encouragement, praise for a task so successfully completed. For being able to bear such burdens. But Saurfang was an orc, not a blood elf, and lavish compliments and effusion would not be welcomed or wanted.

  11. #91
    Bloodsail Admiral chemicader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by delaxes View Post
    Ok, i kinda disagree with bt being 100% soloable, sure maybe 80-90% but the reliquary of souls Ive never managed to find a way to solo, ofc unless u have a perma pet to get the faces to run off to.
    Just to add to your list, alastrazor hc has been soloed by a shadow priest. Only class i cud think wud be able to do it because of huge dps requirement and they need alot of healing to kill the boss too.
    It has been done as a mage also.
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...time-with-lore 4th specs from a pure lore standpoint.
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...0#post17518830 Read / Add your ideas for new endgame formats/variables.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Every spec you mentioned, with the exception of Hunters, are tanks. That's why they get crit immunity; it's a tank thing.
    Yeah. A man can still dream!

    You only have "added RNG" if you take Echo of the Elements. There's two other options to go with.
    As far as soloing goes, Echo is a no-brainer seeing how haste will still remain a stat we don't want to stack, and seeing how much healing it adds. The options aren't realistic here if they are actually balanced for raiding (and they will).

    And the RNG on Maelstrom Weapon is being overblown; it's not truly random, it's a PPM mechanic.
    That's why I said that if you remove the critical hits, the RNG involved in our spec would be in a good spot, similar to blood DKs mentioned earlier.

  13. #93
    I went back in tonight with the stoneclaw glyph, runescrolls of fortitude II and drums of forgotten kings (none of which I'd been using previously) plus a revised spec (2/3 toughness and 2/2 ancestral resolve weren't in before) and it certainly made a difference. (thanks Sarasun for the tips )

    Auriaya took a couple of goes while I sorted out the start sequence, although the first try was a 300k wipe cos a sentinel pounced on me (doh). Freya took a couple of goes too but was a bit buggy...first wipe (boss/add crit spam ftl) the next adds spawned in the water and had to pull again to reset it properly, and when I killed her she didn't drop any loot (someone posted on wowhead about the loot as well so I'm not the first one). The gate to Vezax opened after I killed the elders or Auriaya (but the message didn't show until I killed Freya), so I went down there and he kicked my arse (35% best try) until I respecced 7/31/3 for reverb (I presume you did this too Sarasun?) which made it much more manageable, although I still needed a timely crit heal or two before he died.

    So yeah, these bosses are doable, big thanks Sarasun for the tactics so far and next up Thorim :P
    Last edited by Staticus; 2012-07-12 at 12:34 AM.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Staticus View Post
    when I killed her she didn't drop any loot (someone posted on wowhead about the loot as well so I'm not the first one). The gate to Vezax opened after I killed the elders or Auriaya (but the message didn't show until I killed Freya), so I went down there and he kicked my arse (35% best try) until I respecced 7/31/3 for reverb (I presume you did this too Sarasun?)
    Freya never gave me any loot at all, it's bugged when you solo.

    Yeah, I got the interrupt spec for Vezax. Pretty much impossible without it.

    next up Thorim :P
    Have fun with that! With your gear I have no doubt you'll get it.

  15. #95
    Managed to get him on my 2nd try (first was a 96k wipe due to me wearing the BT neck and no food buff ><), but the gauntlet event will have you rageing at the many things that can screw it up (getting dazed on the speed run, UE not firing immediately at the runic golem due to lag etc, the gate sometimes closing on the speed run so you can't get out and the adds sunder/CC spamming you to death on the climb). Because of this, don't apply your drums/runescroll until you reach the top and are ready to pull Thorim.

    When you drop down in p3 you can use Rage at the start (maybe wolves too but I didn't chance it) as it'll be ready again for later, and stoneclaw shield throughout (although I didn't use it much due to being GCD locked a lot of the time...but at a minimum you can use it just before searing runs out and redrop all 4 totems). The fight gets REALLY intense at the end, you'll need all your CD's for the last 1m or so HP along with a dose of luck. (my kill was a double KO in fact :P)

    It's definitely at the cutting edge of progress fights (solo equivalent), and unfortunately I can't recommend trying it unless you have near- or full-BiS and all the buffs recommended by Sarasun.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-12 at 11:21 PM ----------

    Naj'entus also down, using the method Ysen provided. By standing away from the earth ele, you can get off a few spells (UE/FS/LvB) without overaggroing (took about 400k off him combined with searing before he kills it). Cancel the earth totem with 20 secs left on the stun (to prevent getting a second one), then pop the bubble and go all-out with CD's (use your raid spec too). It's still a very high gear-check though, even with drums.

    Edit: Gurtogg Bloodboil as well, very intense at the end just like Thorim (wasn't using drums/runescroll though and only remembered stoneclaw once). He killed me with ~265k left because of a late disorient strike, but luckily the reincarnate trick saved the day.
    Last edited by Staticus; 2012-07-12 at 11:08 PM.

  16. #96
    Finally got my Heroic Vial yesterday, woot!

    I was still rolling with normal matrix restabilizer .

    I must have the worse luck with loot I've ever had in my entire raiding career.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Staticus View Post
    Edit: Gurtogg Bloodboil as well, very intense at the end just like Thorim (wasn't using drums/runescroll though and only remembered stoneclaw once). He killed me with ~265k left because of a late disorient strike, but luckily the reincarnate trick saved the day.
    I never really had any problem with bloodboil. I tend to pop all my elementals and just auto attack untill he casts that damage buff on you, (cant remember what its called) and then you are able to fully nuke him and usually get him down before your buff actually wears off.

  18. #98
    Any estimation on how much we'll be able to solo of Ulduar 25? I'm planning to get the legendary and it would be great if we could solo most of it.
    It's the internet. You never know if people are either sarcastic or just bad.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by takolin View Post
    Any estimation on how much we'll be able to solo of Ulduar 25? I'm planning to get the legendary and it would be great if we could solo most of it.
    25? Probably nothing except Flame Leviathan. Bosses have way too much hp and too much damage. Don't think I've heard of anyone soloing many 25 man bosses yet.

    Edit: Only occured to me after I typed that that you may have meant in mists. Can't give an estimate yet as things are still being shaken up a bit to even try, not to mention I can't seem to access the PvP gear vendors or anything on the Beta atm.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by takolin View Post
    Any estimation on how much we'll be able to solo of Ulduar 25? I'm planning to get the legendary and it would be great if we could solo most of it.
    I recon it will be easy in mop. Since 10man is a joke on most bosses now, our dps and healing will improve by a lot in mop + we will have more survival cooldowns. I was planning on waiting till mop, then getting my legendary too

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