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  1. #1

    Demon Hunter: Best Bow type?

    Okay so I just began playing a Demon Hunter alt and want to know what the best weapon for a Demon hunter would be. Should I go X-bow, 1 handed x-bow, light x-bow, 2 x-bows, or longbow? Should I use a quiver or go with 2 one handed bows?

    What are the advantages of both? I have a lot of bow types saved up in bank slots as my nightmare character has been saving any good mage and hunter gear. So far I've just been using what ever gets my dps highest and best hatred regen.

    Hep!

  2. #2
    The current consensus (of some sort) is to use 2h bow (no x) and a quiver.
    Passives: Archery (must have) and Sharpshooter (high level), the third one - choose yourself.

  3. #3
    Legendary! Quetzl's Avatar
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    I use a heavy crossbow for its slow speed so I can take advantage of weapon damage on traps and fan of knives. Also so I can stutter step kite without losing much dps.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    The current consensus (of some sort) is to use 2h bow (no x) and a quiver.
    Passives: Archery (must have) and Sharpshooter (high level), the third one - choose yourself.
    I think my third will be the one that converts health orbs into hatred.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I think my third will be the one that converts health orbs into hatred.
    I'm afraid on Inferno you will have to use the one that regenerates your health (Brooding) or provides more damage (like Steady Aim) - since you'll be kiting mostly, and there will be no globes to run into, most of the time, and hatred regeneration is not really a problem.

  6. #6
    For levelling the extra hatred and discipline from health orbs is very useful however. Just my opinion though

  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans Dannyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    The current consensus (of some sort) is to use 2h bow (no x) and a quiver.
    Passives: Archery (must have) and Sharpshooter (high level), the third one - choose yourself.
    Tbh, it depends entirely who you ask. I have yet to see anyone produce any solid evidence that says any one choice is the best. The only consensus, I think, that exists is that DW is not as viable as 2H weapons. The choice between a crossbow and bow is also a question of stat and playstyle. Simplified, I'd say crossbows are better for solo games and bows are better for group games, and the reason is attack speed.

    When soloing, you'll spend most of your time kiting, which way you lose much of the benefit of attack speed. You stutter shoot ofc, but high APS really shines when you have other people tanking for you, and you can just stand at the back shooting your heart out. Crossbows are slower, but when compared to an equal bow, will hit harder per hit, which is ideal for kiting where you're firing 1-2 shots between moving.

    Ofc the lines blur when you begin stacking IAS, which can bring a crossbow up to 2+ APS, which is a good spot for a bow as well, assuming you're playing solo.

    For passives, I'd add Steady Shot, since as DHs we always try spend as much time as possible far away from our targets anyway.

    Edit: @OP
    Just a note, everything I said above applies almost exclusively for inferno. At lower levels it doesn't matter much. Gear really only begins to matter around Hell difficulty. But ofc it's best to get used to a weapon of your choice early on. As a simple guideline, that I'm following, go 2H + quiver until you have the IAS speed to get a crossbow to shoot at 2+ APS. That's just me ofc though, and it's important to remember that there are people completing inferno with both crossbows and bows. So the difference isn't gimping by any stretch of the imagination.

    If anything, gear in D3 is more about balance than anything else.
    Last edited by Dannyl; 2012-06-05 at 08:16 PM. Reason: Just added a note about the difference between inferno and rest of the game.

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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Dannyl View Post
    Tbh, it depends entirely who you ask. I have yet to see anyone produce any solid evidence that says any one choice is the best. The only consensus, I think, that exists is that DW is not as viable as 2H weapons. The choice between a crossbow and bow is also a question of stat and playstyle. Simplified, I'd say crossbows are better for solo games and bows are better for group games, and the reason is attack speed.
    I've seen math, I can't provide a link because I didn't have any reason to save it. But it showed that 2h X-bow is better than 2h bow only in the first second of the fight - thanks to Sharpshooter - but not significantly - and from that point 2h bow provides better damage overall. Of course there are people who disagree via their own experiences, but i do not want to start a holy war. Technically speaking if 2h x-bow does the thing for you - use it. That's the beauty of the game mechanics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dannyl View Post
    When soloing, you'll spend most of your time kiting, which way you lose much of the benefit of attack speed. You stutter shoot ofc, but high APS really shines when you have other people tanking for you, and you can just stand at the back shooting your heart out. Crossbows are slower, but when compared to an equal bow, will hit harder per hit, which is ideal for kiting where you're firing 1-2 shots between moving.
    Since AS of a bow is inherent in the bow (it's not a stat you stacking specifically) this is none issue, plus with AS of a bow you can managed to fit 2-4 shots in the same amount of "stopping" time, that's 3 vs 1.5 or 2 times more. Also on Inferno you can't kite forever and will have to make a stand to actually do some real damage, while taking reduced damage (via abilities, forgot the name - the one that Leaches 20% and has a 65% damage reduction rune... or Smoke Screen.. and Preparation of course with a 60% healing rune) - I prefer using Elemental Arrow with 'tacles for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dannyl View Post
    Ofc the lines blur when you begin stacking IAS, which can bring a crossbow up to 2+ APS, which is a good spot for a bow as well, assuming you're playing solo.
    Well you need almost 100% AS bonus from somewhere to get that speed. With a 2H bow I have like two rings and quiver with attack speed (30% overall) and have 2 APS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dannyl View Post
    For passives, I'd add Steady Shot, since as DHs we always try spend as much time as possible far away from our targets anyway.
    I mentioned it in another comment here, yes. But again it's only for kiting - it doesn't work in a stand off.

  9. #9
    The Patient razisgosu's Avatar
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    Top of the line gear the best is 2 1 handed crossbows, the key is they both have to have sockets. This at top level gear and gems provides 200% increased critical damage, which is far superior to the benefits a 2h and quiver can provide.

  10. #10
    2AS with a xbow isn't as hard as it sounds... I dinged 60 a couple of hours back and with an xbow I have about 1.95 AS and 95k dps without spending much more than 600k. you just gotta shop smart.

    and all of this talk of healing abilities seems pretty pointless when you get one shot anyways. i'm using http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculato...XVT!YTe!YcZZcZ and haven't had any problems yet and i'm nearing the end of act 2.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by razisgosu View Post
    Top of the line gear the best is 2 1 handed crossbows, the key is they both have to have sockets. This at top level gear and gems provides 200% increased critical damage, which is far superior to the benefits a 2h and quiver can provide.
    But you have to acquire two with identical DPS for that to work.
    Also any "bow" can have a socket, so can quivers.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    But you have to acquire two with identical DPS for that to work.
    Also any "bow" can have a socket, so can quivers.
    but two 1 handers with a socket and two 100% crit gems >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any similar bow/xbow and quiver. a 100% crit gem is worth around 35k-45k dps (depending on your other stats), something that a quiver can never achieve.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by crazypearce View Post
    2AS with a xbow isn't as hard as it sounds... I dinged 60 a couple of hours back and with an xbow I have about 1.95 AS and 95k dps without spending much more than 600k. you just gotta shop smart.
    Well buying inferno act3-4 gear is certainly a way to go, but trust me there's a 2h bow from act3-4 that will provide more dps in the end with the amount of AS you have. just because you found yourself a good 2h x-bow - is not a proof of 2h x-bows superiority. It's just a good 2h x-bow. better than 2h bows available in the market.

    Quote Originally Posted by crazypearce View Post
    and all of this talk of healing abilities seems pretty pointless when you get one shot anyways.
    There's no single way to play DH.
    I do not get one-shotted, I actually manage to "tank" Champions and Elites a bit while doing damage.

    ---------- Post added 2012-06-06 at 01:04 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by crazypearce View Post
    but two 1 handers with a socket and two 100% crit gems >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any similar bow/xbow and quiver. a 100% crit gem is worth around 35k-45k dps (depending on your other stats), something that a quiver can never achieve.
    Only if you got TWO IDENTICAL in DPS. DW in Diablo doesn't work the same way as in WoW.

    Also it's 100% crit DAMAGE gems. You need a lot of crit to benefit from it during the whole fight.
    A quiver increases your raw damage -> every damage. Not just crits.
    Same do red gems in a bow.

    If you have high crit setup - well kudos. But you still need two 1h xbows identical in dps

  14. #14
    Herald of the Titans Dannyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    I've seen math, I can't provide a link because I didn't have any reason to save it. But it showed that 2h X-bow is better than 2h bow only in the first second of the fight - thanks to Sharpshooter - but not significantly - and from that point 2h bow provides better damage overall. Of course there are people who disagree via their own experiences, but i do not want to start a holy war. Technically speaking if 2h x-bow does the thing for you - use it. That's the beauty of the game mechanics.
    Well if you run into it again, do feel free to send me the link. Would be interested to see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    Since AS of a bow is inherent in the bow (it's not a stat you stacking specifically) this is none issue, plus with AS of a bow you can managed to fit 2-4 shots in the same amount of "stopping" time, that's 3 vs 1.5 or 2 times more. Also on Inferno you can't kite forever and will have to make a stand to actually do some real damage, while taking reduced damage (via abilities, forgot the name - the one that Leaches 20% and has a 65% damage reduction rune... or Smoke Screen.. and Preparation of course with a 60% healing rune) - I prefer using Elemental Arrow with 'tacles for that.
    Umm... think this is perhaps a matter of technique. I've been trying to practice stutter stepping, which is basically taking a step into the direction you're going, turning around to shoot, and then stepping again. Done right, it's pretty awesome but you only fire one shot between steps. That's why, if using stutter step, you shouldn't get more APS than you can logically shoot while stutter stepping, since it is limited to how fast your mouse hand is.

    I think you're referring to shadow power (with gloom rune). Personally it's not part of my build, so I rely almost solely on kiting; I have SS for getting out of jails and roots, plus caltrops (2 sec immobilized rune) and vault for moving quickly, like getting out of vortex. I suppose I could try shadow power but being a DH I never like being that close to the mobs. SS basically does the same trick, but it avoids all damage. Shadow power also assumes you have a basic HP buffer, which glass cannon DHs don't have; if a mob hits you for 50k, and you need to have more than 17.5k hp or you'll die regardless, and that's assuming there is just one mob, hitting you once.

    So at least personally, I tend to favor kiting and usually I can go for a pretty long time. Caltrops especially are awesome, and they only become better with extra discipline in my gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    Well you need almost 100% AS bonus from somewhere to get that speed. With a 2H bow I have like two rings and quiver with attack speed (30% overall) and have 2 APS.
    True, takes a lot of IAS, particularly if you're like me and don't want to get IAS on my weapon. Need some pretty fancy gear (and by fancy I mean expensive). But if you can do it, you will have a weapon that hits harders and but still fires at the same rate as a bow. With a crossbow you also get 50% crit damage from archery, which combines with the rest of crit damage you get from other pieces. Can't obviously say which is better but seems it has to be pretty tight at the least and is heavily dependent on the gear you have.

    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    I mentioned it in another comment here, yes. But again it's only for kiting - it doesn't work in a stand off.
    True but like I said, stand off usually end badly for DHs, so it's a mute point. At range, when kiting, it's amazing.

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  15. #15
    Whatever the best setup you can afford to have really. 2h xbows have better min/max damage and are more consistent with damage. Its so close between 2h bow and xbow, its really negligible if they are in the same dps range. AS will be the only difference.
    The reason DW isnt good unless you have 2 1hers that are close to being the exact same dps. Some skills actually rotate between the two for shots and having one gimp dps 1her really hurts damage. They also are fast weapons with low top end damage which seriously hurts kiting damage.

    The way to see your real sustained damage is to take off sharpshooter passive. Sharpshooter is really good passive but unless you are kiting you will never have the crit stack high enough or fast enough to keep the current damage you have not in combat. This is why so many choose bows, because the damage becomes more consistent after the first 5-6 seconds of a fight. If you are kiting everything for farming, xbows become better because youwill always be able to get the higher crit % while kiting.

    Nether tendrals also is best with sharpshooter. You can fire off 6-7 shots before the first one hits, making all the shots 100% crit.

  16. #16
    Legendary! Quetzl's Avatar
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    Socketed quivers?

  17. #17
    The Patient razisgosu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    Well buying inferno act3-4 gear is certainly a way to go, but trust me there's a 2h bow from act3-4 that will provide more dps in the end with the amount of AS you have. just because you found yourself a good 2h x-bow - is not a proof of 2h x-bows superiority. It's just a good 2h x-bow. better than 2h bows available in the market.


    There's no single way to play DH.
    I do not get one-shotted, I actually manage to "tank" Champions and Elites a bit while doing damage.

    ---------- Post added 2012-06-06 at 01:04 AM ----------



    Only if you got TWO IDENTICAL in DPS. DW in Diablo doesn't work the same way as in WoW.

    Also it's 100% crit DAMAGE gems. You need a lot of crit to benefit from it during the whole fight.
    A quiver increases your raw damage -> every damage. Not just crits.
    Same do red gems in a bow.

    If you have high crit setup - well kudos. But you still need two 1h xbows identical in dps
    That is exactly the key. You get 2 1 handed crossbows with identical damage range and you will come out on top assuming they both have sockets. The ideal setup is that they both have crit damage, attack speed, dex, +dmg (to get to high numbers) and a socket. You also gain a 15% increased attack speed (maybe its 20%) just from dual wielding. It's a huge damage boost to DPS assuming they're the same damage range with sockets.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    Socketed quivers?
    Adds dex not crit%

  19. #19
    Stood in the Fire Aurinax's Avatar
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    2h xbow with the archery bonus (50% critical damage) works beautifully with sharpshooter. Basically it comes down to an easily controllable part-time 50% damage increase, or a 15% damage increase all of the time.

    The slower speed of the 2h xbow takes some getting used to, but each attack hits harder and you can walk between shots while kiting without losing too much overall damage like a previous poster said.

    I'm still using The Hatred/Disc regen from globes in Inferno btw, don't feel like it's worthless. It allows you to spam far more Nether Tentacles into crowds (or even single targets, as it's pretty much the highest Damage per Hatred spell assuming it hits twice except for maybe Spike Trap > Scatter.) and the 2 disc per globe can be very nice.

    Frankly I and neither will most likely you have enough max health for brooding to be worth it. Everything in act I will 3-4 shot you if you let it attack you for any length of time, act II will be a one shot. There isn't a lot you can do to counter this. Steady Aim is a good option if you don't want to use the hatred passive, or Cull the Weak (Although this is mediocre since often you have to choose between Caltrops and Smokescreen.)
    Playing Path of Exile and Guild Wars 2

  20. #20
    Two hand crossbow with lots of crit. Sharpshooter isn't necessary for xbows to do more dps, especially since the highest tier crossbow innately does nore dps than the highest tier bow. Add in the fact that when kiting you don't have to stop as often to fire, two hand crossbows win hands down.

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