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  1. #21
    Yeah sorry Skyepic, mixed up the datas :P
    We cast a stasurge every 17 sec (15cd +1.5 cast time+human reaction time)
    We get a SS proc every 15 sec
    This averages out to a Starsurge every 10.3s, i think I've read somewhere on EJ that using the glyph with 4t12 would change the average to 9sec
    With or without 4t12 you should get a starfall about every 40sec

    During most fights i've noticed that i had starfall off cooldown when there was only 1 meaningful target.
    With or without glyph i could use starfall :

    pointless during morchok HM because only one boss is in range most of the time
    only 1 time for each black phase during zon'ozz HM
    only 1 time during yor'sahj HM because the second starfall would come off cd while there was only Yor (it all depends on how high is you raid aoe dps) in my raid the add last just a few sec
    lootship HM it's the best fight for it
    spine HM the glyph just inflates it's own value because the extra hit targets shouldn't be considered because the mob that matters the most is just one at a time (hideous amalgamation-Burning tendon)
    Madness HM, stopped using wol for a long time, i don't know, i think it would be better to increase by 10% wrath that is casted often and benefit from the aspect's buffs rather than a starsurge every 40 sec.

    http://elitistjerks.com/blogs/1152-h...yph_starsurge/

    The glyph often inflates itself because it hits unnecessary mobs, in a single target fight i've found that the extra damage done by stafall was far from 10% of all my wrath damages
    Trying it at the target dummy it seemed better (when hitting more than one dummy).
    When forcing only one target Glyph of Wrath gave a nicer result.

    For the 65 mastery enchant, it depeds if you have DI or not. Using wrathcalc show 50haste being better except if you have high haste and you know you will get a DI.
    I prefer to use 50 haste on the boots because the dps provided by faster with lavawalker in DS is negligible because most of the fights the movement is very short or there's none at all, and kept 65 mastery on gloves because WC shown it as being better with DI.
    50haste+35mastery+minor run speed vs 50haste+65mastery from my pov... no movement = no need of lavawalker, big movement = dash

    For the bracers...i don't know maybe because they want to get to the 3101 break point because they don't have a DI
    Last edited by Meldon; 2012-06-11 at 03:45 PM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Nephyron View Post
    For the bracers...i don't know maybe because they want to get to the 3101 break point because they don't have a DI
    That's the thing though: the ones using the Flowing Serenity bracers are still 50 haste short of the 3101 break point.

  3. #23
    The Patient Skyepic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nephyron View Post
    For the 65 mastery enchant, it depends if you have DI or not. Using wrathcalc show 50haste being better except if you have high haste and you know you will get a DI.
    For starters, this is incorrect. Regardless of how much haste you have Haste will always be better than Mastery until you Hard GCD cap your wrath (especially since Haste has a substantially higher stat weight than mastery). The only way to currently GCD cap your Wrath at the moment is with bloodlust + Isignia proc. Once your Wrath is GCD capped Haste begins to lose it's effectiveness and stat weight, while indirectly making mastery a stronger stat weight. However in full BiS T13 gear (i.e the best possible gear you can have in the expansion) even with DI you will not GCD cap your wrath. So 50 haste to gloves will still be better than mastery because the stat weights and effectiveness will not change.

    As for the Starsurge issue, you can theorycraft and put extensive formulas together all you want. It's still a theory nontheless and until backed by hard evidence (i.e world of logs) or some other form of combat analysis saying we cast a starsurge every 9 seconds holds as much value as saying Heaven and Hell are actual places (no offense to any religous people). I've already given evidence through my own logs that i'm not even close to casting a starsurge every 9 - 10 seconds which (according to hamlets theorycrafting) would boost the effectiveness/DPS of GoSS at least for me since i'm getting more use out of it.

    I'm not saying Hamlets calculations are wrong (they may well be very correct), but it's theory and doesn't necessarily mean it translates correctly into actual combat. All i'm saying is find some actual evidence that supports hamlets theory and i would reconsider glyph choice.

    It's no use reading something and doing it just because "someone else said so". There are plenty of ignorant people that go to simcraft/wrathcalc; simulate something and hold that DPS number to be 100% accurate because they don't actually understand the factors and variables that go into how that number was even generated, or how their class works (not saying you're one of them). But just as a precaution, no matter what you read you should test it for yourself and attempt to understand it before posting it to use as evidence for a debate.

    Edit - Looking over the portion of hamlets math equations that I do understand. He incorrectly calculated T_SS (Starsurge proc chance). He values T_SS = (IS + MF) * 4%. In english - 4% chance to proc from IS + 4% chance to proc from MF = the probability of a Starsurge proccing. That's incorrect. Imagine Insect Swarm and Moonfire had a 50% chance to proc SS each. According to hamlet under these circumstances Starsurge would have a 100% proc chance per DoT tick. Which is obviously wrong due to the easily understandable outcomes of (proc + proc) (proc+no proc)(no proc+proc)(no proc+no proc). This would result in T_SS = 75% not 100%.

    Don't know how much of a factor that has on the rest of his equations (assuming it's going to be a substantial difference since he's using T_SS to solve for T_CD and both are being used to solve for T_Total) but yeah, his T_SS is wrong which is going to make every other equation wrong.
    Last edited by Skyepic; 2012-06-11 at 08:21 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Skyepic View Post
    Edit - Looking over the portion of hamlets math equations that I do understand. He incorrectly calculated T_SS (Starsurge proc chance). He values T_SS = (IS + MF) * 4%. In english - 4% chance to proc from IS + 4% chance to proc from MF = the probability of a Starsurge proccing. That's incorrect. Imagine Insect Swarm and Moonfire had a 50% chance to proc SS each. According to hamlet under these circumstances Starsurge would have a 100% proc chance per DoT tick. Which is obviously wrong due to the easily understandable outcomes of (proc + proc) (proc+no proc)(no proc+proc)(no proc+no proc). This would result in T_SS = 75% not 100%.

    Don't know how much of a factor that has on the rest of his equations (assuming it's going to be a substantial difference since he's using T_SS to solve for T_CD and both are being used to solve for T_Total) but yeah, his T_SS is wrong which is going to make every other equation wrong.
    That's adding up the ticks, not the chances. T_SS is the (average) number of procs, not the chance of one happening, that would be 1-(100% - 4%)^(IS+MF).
    Last edited by huth; 2012-06-15 at 09:58 PM. Reason: Multiplying with -1, adding 1.

  5. #25
    The Patient Skyepic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    That's adding up the ticks, not the chances. T_SS is the (average) number of procs, not the chance of one happening, that would be (100% - 4%)^(IS+MF).
    don't see how that formula would give average number of procs

  6. #26
    "He values T_SS = (IS + MF) * 4%" is the average procs formula;
    not the one you quoted from Huth, which is the chance of at least one proc happening given a number of ticks i think.

    So over a fight if you had 136 IS ticks and 145 MF ticks (totally made up numbers)
    Each tick has a 4% chance to proc SS.
    T_SS = (136+145)*.04 = 11.24 SS procs on average

    The chance of at least one proc happening out of those 281 ticks is 100 - 0.96^(136+145) = 99.99998957%
    Last edited by Keiyra; 2012-06-15 at 01:31 PM.

  7. #27
    Exactly that. Also, looks like i forgot a 1 there. Bad thing when most of math consists of multiplying with 1 and adding 0 to stuff.

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