Mistweaver Monk Guide

[Mithfin]

Apparently, they've killed the torpedo-walk trick, thanks to all "HEEY GUSY I FOND AMAZUNG THINK IM SO SPECIAL I WUNNA SHARE COS YUO NO SO SPECIAL AN YOU CUNT FIGHUR IT URSELF!" dicks.

[Luqt]

Apparently, they've killed the torpedo-walk trick, thanks to all "HEEY GUSY I FOND AMAZUNG THINK IM SO SPECIAL I WUNNA SHARE COS YUO NO SO SPECIAL AN YOU CUNT FIGHUR IT URSELF!" dicks.

I noticed this as well during Will of the Emperor and simply put I won't pick that talent again because I honestly don't like ending up on the other side of a room even though I have the option to return to my original spot, it's just unnecessary movement which in some cases might result in negative consequences.

[Chuupag]

I noticed someone in a post on official forums mentioning that after meeting the second haste breakpoint they reforged away all their spirit into crit and felt like they were doing much better now. I'm curious if this might be a viable strategy after yesterday because I was extremely unhappy with my healing after the nerfs.

Just about all of my gear is itemized crit/spirit. How could they reforge into more crit from spirit? I was reforging some spirit away to reach the new breakpoint. Which I feel is fine b/c I'm basically getting 20-25 % or so more mana tea.

[Tatuin]

I'm honestly yet to see a single crit for Mana Tea, and I've actively been watching for it. I have it glyphed and use it on CD so my mana always stays pretty topped up, but I can honestly say I have not seen a single consumption give me anything other than 27,500.

Hmm i thougt it meant you have a x% chance to get 2 stacks of tea after you spend 4chi

[Gorsameth]

Hmm i thougt it meant you have a x% chance to get 2 stacks of tea after you spend 4chi

Correct. you have a chance to gain extra mana tea stacks. not extra mana. Count your Chi use compared to your mana tea stacks if you wanne double check it.

[Rivellana]

Just about all of my gear is itemized crit/spirit. How could they reforge into more crit from spirit? I was reforging some spirit away to reach the new breakpoint. Which I feel is fine b/c I'm basically getting 20-25 % or so more mana tea.

It's possible...I looked at my character versus yours. I reforged off a lot of mastery in order to reach the new haste breakpoint and put what extra I could reforge into spirit. You look like you've reforged off your spirit to reach the haste breakpoint and kept your mastery.

I'm just curious if it's worth moving where I've reforged into spirit and making it crit instead. I was definitely getting a lot of mana back from mana tea this week and would undoubtedly get more with more crit but the thought of losing spirit scares me. :P

[Deleted]

Anybody able to provide math favoring ascension over the other t45 talents ?
So far i only found this :

"-Ascension is inferior to PS and CB for regen. PS is 3000 mp5, CB on cooldown is 2666 mp5. 45k mana + 15% more from tea doesn't even come close to that. You spec Ascension for the higher chi cap; the mana pool bonus is just a nice side effect."
from Sleener on EJ
http://elitistjerks.com/f99/t129834-...3/#post2225904

[Themos]

On 10 man, I find my playstyle very different with 5.1. Lots of Soothing Mists with Enveloping and some Surges for Chi and Burst, and I find myself not liking the Mana Tea glyph anymore, b/c it gets in the way of this healing style. With Jab Weaving, cycling in a GCD for Mana Tea worked very well. Anyone else on 10 man experiencing this or outright removing the Mana Tea glyph?

Also what are yall in 10 man doing for AoE healing? I tried Chi Burst, but it's too much of a Chi hog with the new playstyle.
SCK and Uplift works, but keeping Renewing Mists up on everyone doesn't seem as cost effective anymore.

Thoughts?


(on Ascension, I like it. I get a tiny bit more out of it b/c I'm on a gnome Monk and I already have a 5% mana pool boost b/c of the racial. The 15% from Ascension is multiplicative with it. I tried ranged healing last night, so Power Strikes isn't an option. Chi Brew is nice but I was exploring different play styles last night, and Chi Brew is what I rolled with prior to 5.1 for Uplift bursts.)

[Deleted]

so Power Strikes isn't an option.

Power strikes activates on jab as well as soothing mists and lightning. So it definitly would be an option even not fistweaving.

[Chuupag]

It's possible...I looked at my character versus yours. I reforged off a lot of mastery in order to reach the new haste breakpoint and put what extra I could reforge into spirit. You look like you've reforged off your spirit to reach the haste breakpoint and kept your mastery.

I'm just curious if it's worth moving where I've reforged into spirit and making it crit instead. I was definitely getting a lot of mana back from mana tea this week and would undoubtedly get more with more crit but the thought of losing spirit scares me. :P

I'm getting the spirit darkmoon card later this week. So yes the low spirit scares me a bit...but I feel with the extra mana tea from crit that it makes sense to try to get as much of your regen from crit since it also affects our throughput.

[Themos]

Power strikes activates on jab as well as soothing mists and lightning. So it definitly would be an option even not fistweaving.

Oh, crap didn't notice that in the tooltip and pre 5.1 it never mattered since I didnt use Soothing Mist much anyway.

Huh, that makes it a very hard choice then. I really enjoyed the luxury of the 5 cap on my Chi last night. That's something to mull over. I feel like I generated enough Chi while soothing last night to be happy with, the only time I felt chi starved was when I wanted to AoE heal and found myself not keeping RM on the raid b/c EM was so awesome.

[Deleted]

Anybody able to provide math favoring ascension over the other t45 talents ?
So far i only found this :

"-Ascension is inferior to PS and CB for regen. PS is 3000 mp5, CB on cooldown is 2666 mp5. 45k mana + 15% more from tea doesn't even come close to that. You spec Ascension for the higher chi cap; the mana pool bonus is just a nice side effect."
from Sleener on EJ
http://elitistjerks.com/f99/t129834-...3/#post2225904

The thing is they can't be valued as if they were pure MP5 talents, so math about this is just a pure TC issue that will almost never have an impact in the game, beacause every talent answers to a different need.

The extra chi from ascension is ok, but the extra mana and mana tea regen is almost useless in very early raid gear (in 478 gear I could spend all 6-7 mins in our garalon tries spaming SCK+uplift without running oom) UNLESS you need to heal a tank. The extra chi makes room for a smoother single target output, while the extra mana and mana regen can be useful when you need to use SM frecuently.
Power strikes could also be a choice for single target healing or fistweaving, but if you are not going to focus on tank healing, Chi Brew is still way superior,because it literally is another raid CD, which prepatch could mean 80-90% the healing of a revival, but half CD (when you can uplift twice in 16 targets), but after patch has lost some value.

[Spotnick]

That's because you do 25s. In 10 man, SCK doesn't do shit on Garalon, you have 4 people at best in range and is a lot longer to generate chi than spamming jab. It drains mana like crazy, but you keep the raid up to yourself. That was obviously pre 5.1, I have yet to do Garalon this week.

Soothing Mist is too RNG for chi generation to be reliable, somethings you get 5 in one channel, sometimes only one, and your renewing mist has time to expire everywhere before you can uplift. I don't really enjoy that mechanic. It's fine when in low healing situations obviously, and you can always use surging mist for emergencies to generate chi too.

[Themos]

That's because you do 25s. In 10 man, SCK doesn't do shit on Garalon, you have 4 people at best in range and is a lot longer to generate chi than spamming jab. It drains mana like crazy, but you keep the raid up to yourself. That was obviously pre 5.1, I have yet to do Garalon this week.

Soothing Mist is too RNG for chi generation to be reliable, somethings you get 5 in one channel, sometimes only one, and your renewing mist has time to expire everywhere before you can uplift. I don't really enjoy that mechanic. It's fine when in low healing situations obviously, and you can always use surging mist for emergencies to generate chi too.

Bingo. On 10 man, if you aren't jab weaving you don't have consistent enough Chi for AoE heals in general.

[Deleted]

Funny since when we killed Garalon second time i healed 90k hps and didnt use jab at all.

[Themos]

Funny since when we killed Garalon second time i healed 90k hps and didnt use jab at all.

On 10Normal?

That's hard to believe. That's how much combined throughput the whole encounter needs, I doubt you solo healed it.

[Deleted]

On 10Normal?

That's hard to believe. That's how much combined throughput the whole encounter needs, I doubt you solo healed it.

I'd love to see a Garalon 10N log with 90k combined hps.

Pheromones tick for 15.000 + x * 1.500 (x = pungency stacks on kiter) every 2secs.
-> 150k + 15k * x every 2secs on the raid (10 man)
-> 75k + 7.5k * x inc. raid dps.

So, unless you manage to average 2 stacks on pungency (eg. swap at 4....) for the whole encounter you're really just making up numbers.

Sure, some classes take less damage due to def stances, CDs, absorbs etc.... but it's also not like pheromones are the only damage in this encounter.

[Restofari]

"-Ascension is inferior to PS and CB for regen. PS is 3000 mp5, CB on cooldown is 2666 mp5. 45k mana + 15% more from tea doesn't even come close to that.

I'd LOVE to see a number for 'doesn't even come close to that'
Because I'm convinced that for 10man using mostly Jab rather than Spinning Crane Kick myself, Ascension pulls ahead in mana regen, thanks to more chi/tea per minute
While Chi Brew still helps to compensate for our lackluster Raid CD together with Thunder Focus Tea every second time (2-4x Uplift on 8 people)
Depending on the boss, it's sometimes impossible to hit enough people with Spinning Crane Kicke/Chi Burst on 10man

Garalon 10N requires more like 160k combined HPS even without failing http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...t_of_Fear/hps/

[Chuupag]

I'd LOVE to see a number for 'doesn't even come close to that'
Because I'm convinced that for 10man using mostly Jab rather than Spinning Crane Kick myself, Ascension pulls ahead in mana regen, thanks to more chi/tea per minute

Well seeing as how you get back 24k mana every 10 seconds with glyphed mana tea w/o Ascension and 28k with it seems like it's 2000 mp5, or better put at most 2000 mp5. Doesn't seem like that hard of a math problem. I'd be more interested in how he came up with 3000 mp5 for PS, b/c it seems to me that it would take 160 seconds to gain 8 chi from PS for a 2 stack of tea, and 24k mana divided by 160 seconds gives you 750 mp5.


So I went back on EJ and found his reasoning for the 3000 mp5 number. He is basically saying you would have spent mana to produce the extra chi so why not count it as the cost of a 12k jab. I don't think that makes sense, so my reckoning of 750 mp5 for PS stands.

[Luqt]

Well seeing as how you get back 24k mana every 10 seconds with glyphed mana tea w/o Ascension and 28k with it seems like it's 2000 mp5, or better put at most 2000 mp5. Doesn't seem like that hard of a math problem. I'd be more interested in how he came up with 3000 mp5 for PS, b/c it seems to me that it would take 160 seconds to gain 8 chi from PS for a 2 stack of tea, and 24k mana divided by 160 seconds gives you 750 mp5.


So I went back on EJ and found his reasoning for the 3000 mp5 number. He is basically saying you would have spent mana to produce the extra chi so why not count it as the cost of a 12k jab. I don't think that makes sense, so my reckoning of 750 mp5 for PS stands.

Your reasoning seems correct although you're not taking into account what the user who calculated this mp5 value already considered which is precisely what you mentioned. What he meant to say is, during an encounter where you use a given number of global cooldowns, then the extra chi generated by PS for free and with no gcd rises in value because of the fact that you would've had to use an extra gcd and mana to generate that chi (if you didn't have PS), which as previously mentioned was already given by PS with no additional costs.

However, in practice there's obviously downtime and gcds unfilled so it's not an easy talent to quantify in terms of mp5.