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  1. #1061
    Quote Originally Posted by Wushu View Post
    With the buff its going to take 5400 haste to reach the next breakpoint.
    That is 4000 2nd stat to get 1 additional tick out of 1 hot! (2 if you use enveloping mists, but who the hell put you on tank heals?)

    Thats literally all you get...and my RnM already overheals like a mother trucker.
    No, it's not literally all you get. You also get faster channel on Soothing Mist, faster Chi Burst casts, and I believe faster SCK.

    Now, if you want to argue that's not worth it, then fine, do that. But to say that all you get is another tick of Renewing Mist is factually incorrect.

  2. #1062
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyo View Post
    No, it's not literally all you get. You also get faster channel on Soothing Mist, faster Chi Burst casts, and I believe faster SCK.

    Now, if you want to argue that's not worth it, then fine, do that. But to say that all you get is another tick of Renewing Mist is factually incorrect.
    Rarely use atm.
    Already below the GCD
    Yes, SCK does go faster.

    So, ok you get 2 things, 3 if you count soothing mist.


    People will EVENTUALLY, maybe now or later, have to go for the 5400 breakpoint. The problem is that 1350 haste is absolutely nothing anymore! 2 epic items can easily provide that much haste. Thus players will have to decide between allowing their haste beyond 1350 being wasted, or striving to get to the next breakpoint. Now at what point it becomes more effective to switch, idk. It would be tricky to figure out and would likely take logs, and even then it could easily vary between fights. However, it is an obvious outcome.
    Last edited by Wushu; 2012-10-31 at 04:35 PM.

  3. #1063
    Scarab Lord TheWindWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wushu View Post
    People will EVENTUALLY, maybe now or later, have to go for the 5400 breakpoint. The problem is that 1350 haste is absolutely nothing anymore! 2 epic items can easily provide that much haste. Thus players will have to decide between allowing their haste beyond 1350 being wasted, or striving to get to the next breakpoint.
    This confuses me. I've thoroughly tested my haste's relationship with my abilities and it's pretty clear there's a significant haste breakpoint for Enveloping Mist at around 3,700 rating. (~8.4%) We're talking going from ~155k to ~182k with a single reforge.
    No matter what path you walk in life we all have to face Jaraxxus one day.

  4. #1064
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    This confuses me. I've thoroughly tested my haste's relationship with my abilities and it's pretty clear there's a significant haste breakpoint for Enveloping Mist at around 3,700 rating. (~8.4%) We're talking going from ~155k to ~182k with a single reforge.
    Most people have the raid buff, which yields 5% spell casting speed.
    Thus you only need 1350 haste to get to 8.32% breakpoint.

  5. #1065
    1345 not 1350 (for the min/max crowd)

  6. #1066
    Scarab Lord TheWindWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wushu View Post
    Most people have the raid buff, which yields 5% spell casting speed.
    Thus you only need 1350 haste to get to 8.32% breakpoint.
    You just made my day a little bit. Thank you!
    No matter what path you walk in life we all have to face Jaraxxus one day.

  7. #1067
    Small nerfs.. oh wait!

  8. #1068
    Will RnM land on 2 or 3 ppl per cast with the change?

  9. #1069
    Hello nerfstick!! Boo Hoo ........

  10. #1070
    It was fun while it lasted, all the changes are meaningless with the HUGE exception on how ReM procs, ticks, and spreads. That change alone will make monks much less desirable raid healers and since we can't single target heal worth shit (which wasn't addressed at all) we likely are going to main swap back to whatever we were before. Luckily this is still beta/ptr junk so I can always hope it never makes it to live.

    Darth

  11. #1071
    Quote Originally Posted by morbidone View Post
    Will RnM land on 2 or 3 ppl per cast with the change?
    3.

    It's a wording change.

    Your target, plus 2 more targets.

  12. #1072
    Whats this stupid bullshit that everythings costing more mana for mistweavers... are you mad we go oom quicker then any healer maybe with the exception of druids. mistweaver monks are gonnu end up ruined.

  13. #1073
    Quote Originally Posted by tomdom500 View Post
    Whats this stupid bullshit that everythings costing more mana for mistweavers... are you mad we go oom quicker then any healer maybe with the exception of druids. mistweaver monks are gonnu end up ruined.

    Soothing still costs .274% less mana than on live, Surging costs a whopping .8% more.

    We're ruined!

  14. #1074
    Quote Originally Posted by tomdom500 View Post
    Whats this stupid bullshit that everythings costing more mana for mistweavers... are you mad we go oom quicker then any healer maybe with the exception of druids. mistweaver monks are gonnu end up ruined.
    0.o

    Druids are the most mana efficient healer. I run with 7000 spirit and still put out 60k+ in 10 man.

  15. #1075
    Seems like a fair "nerf" to me. And yes, my main is an MW.

    Mana expending abilities get a small increase in mana cost (edit: 10%, ouch lol), but to counterbalance your crit is now a part of your mana regen which to me seems even and can make you consider using the mana pool increasing meta gem since the mana tea procs might allow you to use 2 stacks of mana tea on cd, maybe.

    T30 talents get nerfed, but again, this is to counterbalance the breakpoint on when to use uplift instead of chi burst assuming the raid is stacked since you'll have less players with ReM.

    ReM gets its effective healing reduced but it will tick every 2 seconds instead of every 3 meaning you'll have 9 ticks instead of 6 without mentioning that haste breakpoints on ReM will be easier to reach if they tick every 2 secs + the extra 50% haste you receive from gear with wise serpent stance active.

    Overall, the only "real" or noticeable nerf is to the amount of targets ReM can spread to, it will reduce our burst healing when combined with TfT to get some uplifts on the go.

    It's not the end of the world, far from it. We'll still be very powerful AoE healers, so I don't understand this hysteria. It's not even fun being OP in my honest opinion since other people devalue your performance because "your spec is too powerful".
    Last edited by Luqyolo; 2012-11-03 at 02:32 AM.

  16. #1076
    "everything" costs 10% more. But Soothing Mists costs 33% less. Net gain is still a hefty reduction relative to live. And what are the other mana things? Expel Harm, Renewing Mists, Spinning Crane Kick, Crackling Jade Lightning, Surging Mists. I'm not going to cry over most of those. SCK is the only one that's even remotely rough, and that probably deserves to cost more given how much it heals. Surging Mists I use so infrequently as to not give a damn. Hell, most of the time when I do use it I'm Fistweaving, have five stacks of the tiger palm buff, and it's free.


    Question: What are the haste breakpoints for Enveloping Mists?

  17. #1077
    Quote Originally Posted by zonde View Post
    Seems like a fair "nerf" to me. And yes, my main is an MW.

    Mana expending abilities get a small increase in mana cost (edit: 10%, ouch lol), but to counterbalance your crit is now a part of your mana regen which to me seems even and can make you consider using the mana pool increasing meta gem since the mana tea procs might allow you to use 2 stacks of mana tea on cd, maybe.

    T30 talents get nerfed, but again, this is to counterbalance the breakpoint on when to use uplift instead of chi burst assuming the raid is stacked since you'll have less players with ReM.

    ReM gets its effective healing reduced but it will tick every 2 seconds instead of every 3 meaning you'll have 9 ticks instead of 6 without mentioning that haste breakpoints on ReM will be easier to reach if they tick every 2 secs + the extra 50% haste you receive from gear with wise serpent stance active.

    Overall, the only "real" or noticeable nerf is to the amount of targets ReM can spread to, it will reduce our burst healing when combined with TfT to get some uplifts on the go.

    It's not the end of the world, far from it. We'll still be very powerful AoE healers, so I don't understand this hysteria. It's not even fun being OP in my honest opinion since other people devalue your performance because "your spec is too powerful".
    If by powerful, you mean average. Heck we might be lucky to be average in 10 mans!
    Meanwhile we have no tank CD, yes life cocoon adsorbs 1 hit, that shit doesn't even count and no other raid utility.
    Worst tank healer by miles.

    So yah...we are in a great spot!

  18. #1078
    There's only one spell they need to change to fix our abysmal tank healing, Surging Mist.

    I think it's cost & healing done should be based around whether you're casting it or using it while channeling soothing mist, the cast version should heal for the current amount, but have it's mana cost decreased by about 10%~ and it's cast time should be increased to 2.5 (or 3?) seconds, the version cast while channeling SM will heal for 40-60% less but have it's mana cost cut down by 60%.

    This will allow us to respond to burst damage better, either by throwing out a couple cheap, weak heals, or casting a long, expensive big heal right before the tank takes any burst damage.

    I'm terrible with numbers and obviously these aren't the numbers that should be used, but you get the idea, we need a way to quickly respond to someone being low on health without burning half our mana pool.

  19. #1079
    Immortal Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morbidone View Post
    If by powerful, you mean average. Heck we might be lucky to be average in 10 mans!
    Meanwhile we have no tank CD, yes life cocoon adsorbs 1 hit, that shit doesn't even count and no other raid utility.
    Worst tank healer by miles.

    So yah...we are in a great spot!
    Wait... Revival isn't a Raid utility?

  20. #1080
    Scarab Lord TheWindWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Wait... Revival isn't a Raid utility?
    While I'd agree that Revival is a major raid CD (it's about 1/3rd HP and a full dispel on everyone in raid, instantly), it's a very lonely CD. We don't bring any form of lasting raid-wide burst healing. (Water Ascendent, Tranquility being drawn out to avoid overhealing, Spirit Shell). We don't offer mana recovery to other healers (Mana Tide Totem, Hymn of Hope, Innervate) We can't break stuns or remove movement impairment from others. (windwalk totem, hand of freedom) We can't even offer a massive damage offset (Void Swap, Hand of Sacrifice, Pain Suppression) and our closest thing to a minor defensive buff is Life Cocoon which is awesome in PVP and if a tank is just about to die but it's not like Pain Suppression which can potentially block 40% of a tank's health and lasts long enough for big heals to actually be cast before it gets popped.
    Last edited by TheWindWalker; 2012-11-03 at 04:06 PM. Reason: typos, grammar, etc
    No matter what path you walk in life we all have to face Jaraxxus one day.

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