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  1. #1081
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    While I'd agree that Revival is a major raid CD (it's about 1/3rd HP and a full dispel on everyone in raid, instantly), it's a very lonely CD. We don't bring any form of lasting raid-wide burst healing. (Water Ascendent, Tranquility being drawn out to avoid overhealing, Spirit Shell). We don't offer mana recovery to other healers (Mana Tide Totem, Hymn of Hope, Innervate) We can't break stuns or remove movement impairment from others. (windwalk totem, hand of freedom) We can't even offer a massive damage offset (Void Swap, Hand of Sacrifice, Pain Suppression) and our closest thing to a minor defensive buff is Life Cocoon which is awesome in PVP and if a tank is just about to die but it's not like Pain Suppression which can potentially block 40% of a tank's health and lasts long enough for big heals to actually be cast before it gets popped.
    I agree completely, as a whole our class needs a lot more utility, I think Blizzard really messed up while creating our class.

    Mistweavers are far too reliant on everyone being grouped up to heal, we're terrible tank healers, we have no utility and our major CDs are pathetic.
    Windwalkers do mediocre dps and bring nothing to a raid besides DPS, there is literally no reason to ever bring a windwalker to a raid.
    Brewmasters are good tanks but they have to do a lot of work just to gain the same mitigation other tanks have passively.

  2. #1082
    Quote Originally Posted by Courierrawr View Post
    I agree completely, as a whole our class needs a lot more utility, I think Blizzard really messed up while creating our class.

    Mistweavers are far too reliant on everyone being grouped up to heal, we're terrible tank healers, we have no utility and our major CDs are pathetic.
    Windwalkers do mediocre dps and bring nothing to a raid besides DPS, there is literally no reason to ever bring a windwalker to a raid.
    Brewmasters are good tanks but they have to do a lot of work just to gain the same mitigation other tanks have passively.
    Brewmasters aren't bad, it's totally on the player to juggle stagger vs purifying brew. If they suck at the juggle, then they will take massive amounts of damage. After a minute or so into the fight though, having a raid wide guard is nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    While I'd agree that Revival is a major raid CD (it's about 1/3rd HP and a full dispel on everyone in raid, instantly), it's a very lonely CD. We don't bring any form of lasting raid-wide burst healing. (Water Ascendent, Tranquility being drawn out to avoid overhealing, Spirit Shell). We don't offer mana recovery to other healers (Mana Tide Totem, Hymn of Hope, Innervate) We can't break stuns or remove movement impairment from others. (windwalk totem, hand of freedom) We can't even offer a massive damage offset (Void Swap, Hand of Sacrifice, Pain Suppression) and our closest thing to a minor defensive buff is Life Cocoon which is awesome in PVP and if a tank is just about to die but it's not like Pain Suppression which can potentially block 40% of a tank's health and lasts long enough for big heals to actually be cast before it gets popped.
    *Ahem*

    Tiger's Lust

    Level 15 talent. You don't HAVE to pick Celerity or Momentum.

    Although I do agree that we bring a lot less compared to the other healers in terms of utility, such as mentioned, mana regen.

  3. #1083
    It seem they reverted back ascension changes..

  4. #1084
    Fairly new to Mistweaver healing so i got two questions: Should i maintain Renewing Mist all the time and where can i find a guide on how to combat heal?

  5. #1085
    Quote Originally Posted by Krige View Post
    It seem they reverted back ascension changes..
    Where did you see that at?

  6. #1086
    Quote Originally Posted by morbidone View Post
    Where did you see that at?
    Updated ptr patchnotes, there is no ascension change anymore :/

  7. #1087
    That is absolute bullshit...ascension is useless as it is. No one takes that shit!

  8. #1088
    i checked on ptr and ascension is giving 15% mana right now, but in the patchnotes there isnt any change

  9. #1089
    Quote Originally Posted by Jekerdud View Post
    I never knew you could target someone else with that. TIL.
    Praise the Quest Writers for they give life to otherwise boring expansions.
    I was wrong about Blizzcon 2014 having nothing interesting to show off: There's a Robot Monk!

  10. #1090
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    I never knew you could target someone else with that. TIL.
    Yeah, you can. It's your own version of a freedom, which is nice for both PvP and some PvE encounters.

  11. #1091
    The Patient Jake5467's Avatar
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    With all this discussion on our utility and tank healing I think most of you are missing the point. We aren't meant to be the stardard flash heal, greater heal, heal class. I think where we are is great at the moment, these nerfs are very much needed. Our raid healing and mana regen is amazing. I currently raid with a resto shaman and it's perfect, he is the CD bot with me as a backup for an oh shit raid or tank CD. I do agree with a few pages back on the HoT portion of life cocoon though, needing to be seperate.

    I have been 2 healing H Gara'jal as a Mistweaver and it is one of the most challenging tank healing fights, but is still possible. You just need to play around with the class a little more. I have tried many different styles of healing through the past month, starting with Zen Sphere pre-patch, then moving to Chi Burst. I then tried range healing with a few uplifts and full fistweaving. I am now most comfortable with full fistweaving during nuke phases and jab-jab uplift the rest of the time. If 1 or 2 people need healing over others, Chi Wave <3. I guess it really just takes practice to develop your own playstyle. Currently I am happy with the state of the class and am looking forward to the changes 5.1 will bring, and will enjoy the balance. I think we need the mana increase but am praying this ascension change comes through.

    Here's an example of my playstyle with a resto shaman and holy paladin, just get the pally to keep tanks up, shaman to use raid CD's when needed then I'll keep the raid up. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=20648&e=21205

  12. #1092
    Moderator Rivelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake5467 View Post
    With all this discussion on our utility and tank healing I think most of you are missing the point. We aren't meant to be the stardard flash heal, greater heal, heal class. I think where we are is great at the moment, these nerfs are very much needed. Our raid healing and mana regen is amazing. I currently raid with a resto shaman and it's perfect, he is the CD bot with me as a backup for an oh shit raid or tank CD. I do agree with a few pages back on the HoT portion of life cocoon though, needing to be seperate.

    I have been 2 healing H Gara'jal as a Mistweaver and it is one of the most challenging tank healing fights, but is still possible. You just need to play around with the class a little more. I have tried many different styles of healing through the past month, starting with Zen Sphere pre-patch, then moving to Chi Burst. I then tried range healing with a few uplifts and full fistweaving. I am now most comfortable with full fistweaving during nuke phases and jab-jab uplift the rest of the time. If 1 or 2 people need healing over others, Chi Wave <3. I guess it really just takes practice to develop your own playstyle. Currently I am happy with the state of the class and am looking forward to the changes 5.1 will bring, and will enjoy the balance. I think we need the mana increase but am praying this ascension change comes through.

    Here's an example of my playstyle with a resto shaman and holy paladin, just get the pally to keep tanks up, shaman to use raid CD's when needed then I'll keep the raid up. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=20648&e=21205
    I'd honestly be fine with them keeping us like we are, as raid healers who end up doing more overall healing if you were to simply base it on meters than other classes because our tank healing and utility and raid cooldowns are horrible. I'm just afraid that they are going to nerf our overall healing in order to appease the other healing classes who are too stuck on staring at meters and yelling that monks are OP to realize what they have that we don't.

    I agree with you, my raid leader is a resto shaman and I can't think of another healing class I'd rather heal with, sure I can outheal him in lesser gear if you were to simply base it on meters but I don't think I could live without his mana tides and spirit link totem is probably the most amazing raid cooldown of any class, imo.

  13. #1093
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    While I'd agree that Revival is a major raid CD (it's about 1/3rd HP and a full dispel on everyone in raid, instantly), it's a very lonely CD.
    I'd just like to point out that Revival DOES NOT heal for 120k+ in a raid situation, which so many people seem to believe. The tooltip is VERY confusing. The healing is actually reduced the more target it hits... I was bewildered when I found out.

    See the values for yourself (i took some random top ranks on WOL)

    25m
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/a...0/?s=651&e=965
    Average 42k, crit 90k

    10m
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1...?s=3054&e=3449
    Average 75k, Crit 150k

    So Revival actually ends up healing something like 10/20% max of people's life. Sometimes it reaches 150k, which is nice... In 10m, when it crits.

  14. #1094
    The Patient Jake5467's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivellana View Post
    I'd honestly be fine with them keeping us like we are, as raid healers who end up doing more overall healing if you were to simply base it on meters than other classes because our tank healing and utility and raid cooldowns are horrible. I'm just afraid that they are going to nerf our overall healing in order to appease the other healing classes who are too stuck on staring at meters and yelling that monks are OP to realize what they have that we don't.

    I agree with you, my raid leader is a resto shaman and I can't think of another healing class I'd rather heal with, sure I can outheal him in lesser gear if you were to simply base it on meters but I don't think I could live without his mana tides and spirit link totem is probably the most amazing raid cooldown of any class, imo.
    I think people aren't understanding these nerfs, they are needed. The RnM nerf is a small nerf to the actual HoT, then reducing it's jumping from 3 to 2 targets. This is a direct 25m nerf, it barely affects 10m. A skilled mistweaver will still be able to keep 10 RnM up in a 10m without any issues. Also it now ticks every 2 seconds instead of 3, so that already kind of makes up for the actual throughput nerf. They also had to nerf our T30 talents to be par with uplift in 25 otherwise 1 would shoot ahead of the other. The mana cost increase is most definately needed, although I would like to see Surging Mist left out of it, that is the only spell that is WAY to much already. To compensate with the mana increase we have increased regen through crit, all in all I think the patch will bring us down not quite to par, but at least less OP

  15. #1095
    I am currnetly in a casual 10 man raiding team which are still doing Mogushan vaults. (We do 2 nights a week and this is our first time raiding as a group)
    Now since i do not practice all that much with my MW monk, i will probably need more experience with the class (since I was a priest healer before this).
    But what i have noticed is that i do like 40% overhealing on pretty much every boss.
    This i think is a whole lot.
    What i usually do is put up RM on pretty much all of the party, use jab when possible or use SoM to generate chi and use it on uplift together with TFT if possible.
    I'm mostly in charge of raid healing which works fine and i help out on tanks with SoM with enveloping mist.
    2 questions: can i do less overhealing? and how do i best cope with burst aoe damage (absorbing a epicenter on Feng? (i spam SKK as we group in the middle)
    Any help is apreciated.
    Last edited by waterdust; 2012-11-05 at 11:52 AM.

  16. #1096
    The Patient Jake5467's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterdust View Post
    I am currnetly in a casual 10 man raiding team which are still doing Mogushan vaults. (We do 2 nights a week and this is our first time raiding as a group)
    Now since i do not practice all that much with my MW monk, i will probably need more experience with the class (since I was a priest healer before this).
    But what i have noticed is that i do like 40% overhealing on pretty much every boss.
    This i think is a whole lot.
    What i usually do is put up RM on pretty much all of the party, use jab when possible or use SoM to generate chi and use it on uplift together with TFT if possible.
    I'm mostly in charge of raid healing which works fine and i help out on tanks with SoM with enveloping mist.
    2 questions: can i do less overhealing? and how do i best cope with burst aoe damage (absorbing a epicenter on Feng? (i spam SKK as we group in the middle)
    Any help is apreciated.
    If the group is already topped off RnM will do massive overhealing, no help there. But if you are still using uplift when the group is at full health consider using that on Chi Wave/BoK/TP. Use an alternative chi dump. For the burst healing issue, if you are rolling RnM on 8+ targets the whole time, make sure to have 4 chi 1-2 seconds before epicenter, then Uplift, Uplift, Chi Brew, Uplift, Uplift. That will be amazing throughput with 8+ targets. Be sure to use RnM on CD if it comes up during that rotation. Another alternative if you don't have Chi Brew or it isn't up is to have the 4 chi ready, but once you have upilfted twice, crane kick as your chi generator, then uplift again.

  17. #1097
    Moderator Rivelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake5467 View Post
    I think people aren't understanding these nerfs, they are needed. The RnM nerf is a small nerf to the actual HoT, then reducing it's jumping from 3 to 2 targets. This is a direct 25m nerf, it barely affects 10m. A skilled mistweaver will still be able to keep 10 RnM up in a 10m without any issues. Also it now ticks every 2 seconds instead of 3, so that already kind of makes up for the actual throughput nerf. They also had to nerf our T30 talents to be par with uplift in 25 otherwise 1 would shoot ahead of the other. The mana cost increase is most definately needed, although I would like to see Surging Mist left out of it, that is the only spell that is WAY to much already. To compensate with the mana increase we have increased regen through crit, all in all I think the patch will bring us down not quite to par, but at least less OP
    Oh trust me, I understand the nerfs completely and I expected them to come so I wasn't that surprised when I saw them. To me I think it's just more of when you come to these forums to try to get information about it, the people who are freaking out about them with the sky is falling mentality and saying that a nerf to put 25s healers in line with other classes will drop monks to the bottom of the meters in 10s and make them obsolete are louder than the level-headed people who are saying, this nerf will balance out mana between the new changes and the mana increases and won't make a very big difference in 10s.

    I'd love to believe the latter but you're going to just have the Chicken Littles freaking out every new person that comes onto the forums looking for answers, at least until the changes are live or able to be tested out for real.

    Don't misunderstand my post. When I say I'm afraid they will nerf our overall healing in order to appease other classes, I mean I'm afraid that they will end making even new, different changes than are currently on PTR and actually nerfing it further. They've already changed it at least three times in the past two weeks, who is to say they won't do it 20 more times before live?

  18. #1098
    I sure hope not. Changes to renewing mist I'm almost positive we can remove haste out of the picture.

  19. #1099
    The Patient Jake5467's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivellana View Post
    Oh trust me, I understand the nerfs completely and I expected them to come so I wasn't that surprised when I saw them. To me I think it's just more of when you come to these forums to try to get information about it, the people who are freaking out about them with the sky is falling mentality and saying that a nerf to put 25s healers in line with other classes will drop monks to the bottom of the meters in 10s and make them obsolete are louder than the level-headed people who are saying, this nerf will balance out mana between the new changes and the mana increases and won't make a very big difference in 10s.

    I'd love to believe the latter but you're going to just have the Chicken Littles freaking out every new person that comes onto the forums looking for answers, at least until the changes are live or able to be tested out for real.

    Don't misunderstand my post. When I say I'm afraid they will nerf our overall healing in order to appease other classes, I mean I'm afraid that they will end making even new, different changes than are currently on PTR and actually nerfing it further. They've already changed it at least three times in the past two weeks, who is to say they won't do it 20 more times before live?
    I'm worried too. I think on the current build the nerfs seems pretty balanced, maybe some tweaks here and there. But I totally get what you are saying, let's just pray blizzard doesn't overdo it!

  20. #1100
    Is anyone working on a simulation for pure eminence healing playstyle? I'm in moderate gear, item level 484, around where you can start spamming abilities instead of taking it easy and autoattacking and I didn't seem to be doing a lot of DPS (think around 30k). Obviously it would be great if this could be maximized, it's a shame it only really scales with crit & spirit.

    What I'm doing at the minute is stacking 4 chi & prepotting int potions for an extra 4410 AP, starting the fight, stacking tiger power, engineering gloves, xuen then dumping chi on chi wave > blackout kick and refreshing TP. Expel harm is rather good as well, you can hit around 50k with it if you're lucky.

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