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  1. #1261
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blizzard
    Mistweaver:
    The absorption effect of Life Cocoon has been increased by 100%. We hope to have this change applied within the next 24 hours.
    Interesting change. I'm sure that would help the tank healing situation.

  2. #1262
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Interesting change. I'm sure that would help the tank healing situation.
    I won't deny it will be a noticeable change, but now it means you might just get two ticks off Enveloping Mist if it's already on the tank when you cast Life Cocoon.
    Gone until the next expansion.

  3. #1263
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    I won't deny it will be a noticeable change, but now it means you might just get two ticks off Enveloping Mist if it's already on the tank when you cast Life Cocoon.
    Yes, I still don't see why they dont just un-couple the Absorb and the HOT buff so the latter actually stays for the duration it is intended to.

  4. #1264
    While I can get on the bandwagon of decoupling the two, a change like that won't have a noticeable impact in the context of what the intent is.

    Qualitatively it's a lifesaver ability more than anything else, and this hotfix makes it all the better in that regard. It will be a ~300k shield

    1) On a non-tank this is A LOT
    2) On a tank, it's very nice.
    >A On any fight with planned big hits, this is a lot of added effective health.
    >B If the tank gets knocked down to ~10% life due to whatever reason (RNG, lag, etc) and you use Cocoon re-actively, in that case this change is HUGE and will impact it the most.

    Separating out the HoT booster effect is a throughput gain which will have minimal impact on the meters and a minimal impact in the above scenarios, imo. It's a minor quibble, and I'd rather them focus more on fixing the rest of the mess with the MW spec wrt to mana scaling, playstyles, etc that they are breaking with each patch.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-04 at 04:41 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephius View Post
    Yes, I still don't see why they dont just un-couple the Absorb and the HOT buff so the latter actually stays for the duration it is intended to.
    Think of it in terms of coding work. The hotfix going in is a simple number change in existing game code, a very simple knob to turn. Decoupling the two would require rewriting the spell from scratch, which is quite a bit more work and a real coder. For all we know GC himself can mess with the knobs on all abilities using some sort of internal GUI system. He's not a programmer.
    Last edited by Themos; 2012-12-04 at 09:42 PM.

  5. #1265
    Dreadlord
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    Well i guess i can mention it here also

    Atm glyphed Uplift cost less then 2 Jab for Uplift non glyphed

  6. #1266
    Quote Originally Posted by Tatuin View Post
    Well i guess i can mention it here also

    Atm glyphed Uplift cost less then 2 Jab for Uplift non glyphed
    Did you add in the mana returned through mana tea generated by jab-jab-uplift?

  7. #1267
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Did you add in the mana returned through mana tea generated by jab-jab-uplift?
    Just did a quick check on, this is what I came up with:

    Jab 3.9% Base Mana
    Glyphed Uplift 6.6% Base Mana


    I won't consider the +3% max mana meta since I don't use it atm, so just the Ascension scenarios:

    Scenario A: No Ascension
    - Jab x4 + Uplift x2 costs 15.6% (4x 3.9%) Base Mana, giving 1 Stack of Mana Tea
    - 1 Stack of Mana Tea gives 4% Max Mana, which equals 4% Base Mana in this case (no Ascension)
    - Net Cost: 15.6% - 4% = 11.6% Base Mana, 6 GCDs


    Scenario B: Ascension
    - Jab x4 + Uplift x2 costs 15.6% (4x 3.9%) Base Mana, giving 1 Stack of Mana Tea
    - 1 Stack of Mana Tea gives 4% Max Mana, which equals 4.6% Base Mana in this case (Ascension)
    - Net Cost: 15.6% - 4.6% = 11% Base Mana, 6 GCDs




    Glyphed Uplift x2 is 13.2% Base Mana, which is more than unglyphed if you factor in the Mana Tea returns.
    However: Glyphed Uplift frees up to 4 GCDs, allowing you to spend your Chi elsewhere and still get Mana Tea stacks.


    Note: The math above uses the increased cost on Jab (3.9% Base Mana, not 3%).

  8. #1268
    Quote Originally Posted by ccKep View Post
    Just did a quick check on, this is what I came up with:

    Jab 3.9% Base Mana
    Glyphed Uplift 6.6% Base Mana


    I won't consider the +3% max mana meta since I don't use it atm, so just the Ascension scenarios:

    Scenario A: No Ascension
    - Jab x4 + Uplift x2 costs 15.6% (4x 3.9%) Base Mana, giving 1 Stack of Mana Tea
    - 1 Stack of Mana Tea gives 4% Max Mana, which equals 4% Base Mana in this case (no Ascension)
    - Net Cost: 15.6% - 4% = 11.6% Base Mana, 6 GCDs


    Scenario B: Ascension
    - Jab x4 + Uplift x2 costs 15.6% (4x 3.9%) Base Mana, giving 1 Stack of Mana Tea
    - 1 Stack of Mana Tea gives 4% Max Mana, which equals 4.6% Base Mana in this case (Ascension)
    - Net Cost: 15.6% - 4.6% = 11% Base Mana, 6 GCDs




    Glyphed Uplift x2 is 13.2% Base Mana, which is more than unglyphed if you factor in the Mana Tea returns.
    However: Glyphed Uplift frees up to 4 GCDs, allowing you to spend your Chi elsewhere and still get Mana Tea stacks.


    Note: The math above uses the increased cost on Jab (3.9% Base Mana, not 3%).

    You'd also have to consider the eminence healing from the 4 Jabs. It's a smart instant heal, which means very low overheal.
    I'd be hard pressed to ignore that. If you factor in that the 4 GCDs spent on other chi generators to equal at the very least the same out healing output (however you do it), you end up with considerably more mana spent.

  9. #1269
    any bis list for mw's?
    stop being pathetic.

  10. #1270
    Mechagnome Synbaby's Avatar
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    •Monks are likely the class that needs the most work right now. Mistweavers have been difficult to balance, work on that is still ongoing. Healing and DPS Monks are also underrepresented in PvP

    I'm going to hold on to hope now because of this statement. I wonder if they will totally change MW healing style again in the next patch. DKs got completely changed many times before that class got totally fleshed out(and are still kind of overpowered imo).
    What doesn't destroy us, only makes us stranger

  11. #1271
    Field Marshal Algot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synbaby View Post
    •Monks are likely the class that needs the most work right now. Mistweavers have been difficult to balance, work on that is still ongoing. Healing and DPS Monks are also underrepresented in PvP

    I'm going to hold on to hope now because of this statement. I wonder if they will totally change MW healing style again in the next patch. DKs got completely changed many times before that class got totally fleshed out(and are still kind of overpowered imo).
    There will definitely be changes to mechanics in the future. Personally, I really enjoy the Jab Jab Uplift approach to healing and I don't want to see that removed, altered is fine. However, I really doubt they will change the Monk class as they have done with DKs, such as swapping talent trees and completely rework abilities.

    What I would like to see is a more reliable way of healing, (perhaps a healing splash on Uplift?), without increasing the hps too much.

    No doubt about it, there will be buffs in the (near) future. All though we are still very good.

  12. #1272
    The ability to fistweave is what is wrong with this class atm

  13. #1273
    Dreadlord
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    Well as i said ages ago, they should never had try to mix 2 healing styles. Split them up or make 2 specs for it. They cant make both to be equali good and balanced. Sure i get that they wanted to test something new as fistweaving. but they should have focus all on it then not mix in normal healing into it.

  14. #1274
    Field Marshal Algot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbfoundead View Post
    The ability to fistweave is what is wrong with this class atm
    Quote Originally Posted by Tatuin View Post
    Well as i said ages ago, they should never had try to mix 2 healing styles. Split them up or make 2 specs for it. They cant make both to be equali good and balanced. Sure i get that they wanted to test something new as fistweaving. but they should have focus all on it then not mix in normal healing into it.
    I don't really see the problem with it. Both styles are viable and neither is broken.

  15. #1275
    Mechagnome Synbaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Algot View Post
    I don't really see the problem with it. Both styles are viable and neither is broken.
    I like using both healing styles, depending on the boss fight in raids. Now if they would just fix us from going oom so fast while using either healing style....
    What doesn't destroy us, only makes us stranger

  16. #1276
    Mechagnome Chuupag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synbaby View Post
    I like using both healing styles, depending on the boss fight in raids. Now if they would just fix us from going oom so fast while using either healing style....
    I'm never going oom even with less than 6k spirit (but I have chi-ji) and outheal the pally healer on every fight but garajal. This is in 10-man and we 2-heal everything we can. Playstyle differences?

  17. #1277
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuupag View Post
    I'm never going oom even with less than 6k spirit (but I have chi-ji) and outheal the pally healer on every fight but garajal. This is in 10-man and we 2-heal everything we can. Playstyle differences?
    well if you play wiht a disc and pala its kinda hard to get out any healing befor they have a sheild on them. I heal wiht a paladin and disc and it feel so useless against the absorbs.

    ppl took monk healers for the throughput we had but we cant do that anymore

  18. #1278
    Field Marshal Algot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synbaby View Post
    I like using both healing styles, depending on the boss fight in raids. Now if they would just fix us from going oom so fast while using either healing style....
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuupag View Post
    I'm never going oom even with less than 6k spirit (but I have chi-ji) and outheal the pally healer on every fight but garajal. This is in 10-man and we 2-heal everything we can. Playstyle differences?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tatuin View Post
    well if you play wiht a disc and pala its kinda hard to get out any healing befor they have a sheild on them. I heal wiht a paladin and disc and it feel so useless against the absorbs.

    ppl took monk healers for the throughput we had but we cant do that anymore
    I heal 10 mans with either a disc/holy priest or a holy paladin. I usually out shine them both on fights other than WotE, where I just spam heal during titan gas and spend the rest of the fight dodging the combo.

    Sure the patch, especially the hotfix, changed the way I play. Mana return is less forgiving. I no longer use as many Blackout Kicks or Tiger Palms as I used to. But the ReM change barely makes any difference on 10 man, it's more noticeable 25.

    I started running with Chi Wave for our 10 man raids for some better tank healing, it's also very good on fights like Ta'yak.

    Anyway, find a good rhythm whilst AoE healing and try to optimise your mana regen a way that suits you. In my experience neither play style is broken or under performing atm.

    Worth mentioning that I don't aim for the haste caps as that would make me sacrifice a lot of crit. The extra crit makes a huge impact on Mana Tea stacks and mana regen.
    Last edited by Algot; 2012-12-08 at 01:59 PM.

  19. #1279
    Mechagnome Chuupag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Algot View Post
    I heal 10 mans with either a disc/holy priest or a holy paladin. I usually out shine them both on fights other than WotE, where I just spam heal during titan gas and spend the rest of the fight dodging the combo.

    Sure the patch, especially the hotfix, changed the way I play. Mana return is less forgiving. I no longer use as many Blackout Kicks or Tiger Palms as I used to. But the ReM change barely makes any difference on 10 man, it's more noticeable 25.

    I started running with Chi Wave for our 10 man raids for some better tank healing, it's also very good on fights like Ta'yak.

    Anyway, find a good rhythm whilst AoE healing and try to optimise your mana regen a way that suits you. In my experience neither play style is broken or under performing atm.

    Worth mentioning that I don't aim for the haste caps as that would make me sacrifice a lot of crit. The extra crit makes a huge impact on Mana Tea stacks and mana regen.
    I thought with the changes to ReM that you had to take the 47XX haste breakpoint or ReM was actually weaker than it was prepatch. I go 6k spirit > 47XX haste > crit > mastery and I'm sitting at 23% crit in so-so gear.

    I guess also worth mentioning is that I shelled out for Jade Spirit, so I usually don't touch tea til I get down below 25% so that the spirit proc has a chance to be effective. After that I just chug on CD and stay between 15% and 40% the rest of the fight.
    Last edited by Chuupag; 2012-12-08 at 02:12 PM.

  20. #1280
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuupag View Post
    I'm never going oom even with less than 6k spirit (but I have chi-ji) and outheal the pally healer on every fight but garajal. This is in 10-man and we 2-heal everything we can. Playstyle differences?
    I don't want to be rude (and if I'm mistaken please correct me), but:
    Your armory shows you as being 4 / 16 Normal Mode with an ilvl of 482 (unless that's an alt). I think the people arguing above did that in 455-460 and are now actually talking about stuff that's hard to heal in 490 (think HoF / ToES heroics).

    Again: I don't want to offend you, but talking about mana management in raids with 25% bosses dead (in normal mode) seems like a wrong measurement to me. (Can't stress that enough, it's a personal opinion)

    Edit: I'm not saying your opinion doesn't count, I'm just saying it might be based on different circumstances that most people here are dealing with.
    Last edited by ccKep; 2012-12-08 at 02:38 PM.

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