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  1. #1361
    Field Marshal Algot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blablubs12 View Post
    In my opinion, 5.2. will nerf us even more. Jab, Renewing Mist and Soothing Mist cost more mana, Soothing Mist also grants less chi. Enveloping Mist will become nearly useless for tank healing, not saying that it was a good tank healing before, but why would one want to nerf it even more? There are only 2 buffs against those nerfs. First is that the mastery spheres now heal when they expire, this change was already planed for 5.1. but was somehow taken away some days before it went live. It will buff our healing slightly, but as we don't stack mastery anymore and as the spheres should mostly be used in a good raid anyway, it won't be huge. The second buff is chi burst. Its healing is doubled and will be incredibly powerful, especially in 25man. Anyway, you can't say how good it will be as long as we don't know the mana costs, because it will definitely not be for free.

    Therefore, if these changes would be final (which they are not), then it'd all depend on the mana cost of chi burst.

    Edit: There are two versions of patch notes on the mmo-champion page. Read the first one, but as the second one states that chi burst will have a 30 second cooldown, it might truely not have any mana cost, but it's also more of a small cooldown than a spammable ability then. So right now I don't know which of the note versions are right or whether it might be a combination of both of them. This is the one (http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...TR-Build-16408) where some of the nerfs I mentioned are listed.

    For example:
    Enveloping Mist healing and SP scaling reduced by 35%.
    Renewing Mist now costs 6.5% of Base Mana, up from 5%. Now will heal any friendly target, rather than just raid and party members.
    Soothing Mist mana cost slightly increased. Now grants a 30% chance to generate 1 Chi, down from 35%.

    So if these changes are all true, the following patch will nerf us once more.
    Good post, and thanks for the 'nerf notes', I didn't notice them. But aren't those the same nerfs we saw in post-5.1 hotfixes?

    Can't find the post containing the mana nerfs, but I found this:

    The absorption effect of Life Cocoon has been increased by 100%. We hope to have this change applied within the next 24 hours.
    And IIRC, a few days after 5.1 went live, we saw a small nerf to the Chi proc on Soothing Mist, along with another 30% mana increase on most abiltiies. So the nerfs listed should only be "tooltip fixes" No?
    Last edited by Algot; 2012-12-22 at 09:52 AM.

  2. #1362
    The nerfs are part of the unofficial notes, some of them are listed under "Monk" and some of them under "Mistweaver". Anyway, it's early and as you pointed out I didn't get that most of these 'nerfs' are only tooltip fixes. What I didn't find was the enveloping mist thing, is it also a tooltip fix? Couldn't find that change in the 5.1 patchnotes nor in the hotfixes following. It'll also be interesting whether they truely fix jab mana costs or if they only managed to fix the tooltip.

  3. #1363
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blablubs12 View Post
    The nerfs are part of the unofficial notes, some of them are listed under "Monk" and some of them under "Mistweaver". Anyway, it's early and as you pointed out I didn't get that most of these 'nerfs' are only tooltip fixes. What I didn't find was the enveloping mist thing, is it also a tooltip fix? Couldn't find that change in the 5.1 patchnotes nor in the hotfixes following. It'll also be interesting whether they truely fix jab mana costs or if they only managed to fix the tooltip.
    The envolping mist nerf was inplanted same day the patch got in. So its not a new nerf

  4. #1364
    With the tier 3 talents not costing chi, I wondering if we'll be left with only RnM and EM for chi spenders (outside of fistweaving).
    Either they are going to add something for us to spend chi on, or keeping up SZ and healing through damage is going to look more attractive.

    Uplift is just not smart enough to be our only good chi spender.

  5. #1365
    In my opinion, the intended design for the T30 talents was that they should be a chi spender (hint: All of them start with "Chi xxxx" :-P) that in situational circumstances could be used instead of uplift, our main chi spending ability.

    I can't imagine chi burst going live with a 30 sec CD for the healing it would do, if it does then I honestly can't tell what kind of direction Blizzard is trying to give to MW. On top of that, it would make our healing arsenal a bit more tedious.

  6. #1366
    Our problem is imo uplift.
    When we had ReM on 10+ people regularly it was OP, when that dropped with the nerf to 2 bounces uplift became basically crap and we moved to Chi Burst.
    Now blizz obviously doesn't want us to rely on a talent as our main healing spell so there changes Chi Burst.
    yet this leaves us with having to go back to uplift and frankly uplift on 5-6 people who you have very little control over is just plain bad. If blizz wants to fix us they need to detach uplift from ReM and add some other mechanism to replace it.

    Give us control over who we heal and balance the numbers from there. Right now we can either blanked the entire raid (OP) or heal a a handfull of people, half of who probably dont even need the healing (Crap).

  7. #1367
    Probably the dumbest questions ever. If I'm channeling Soothing Mists on the tank and then do the instant cast Surging Mists on a DPS does the heal go to the tank (the soothing mists target) or does it go to the DPS (the Surging Mists target)?

    Also, spamming Jab for chi is bad idea, right?

    I should be using Tiger Palm and Blackout Kick to keep their respective buffs up, right?

  8. #1368
    Any cast that gets modified to instant while channelling SM also goes to the target of SM.

    Spamming Jab for chi is acceptable if you're spending it properly, as it's our only "cheap" method of on demand Chi generation outside the cooldowns of RM and EH.

    Only if you intend to be auto-attacking during the duration of the buffs, i.e. when not tank healing and focusing on using SM.

  9. #1369
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Othis leaves us with having to go back to uplift and frankly uplift on 5-6 people who you have very little control over is just plain bad.
    So, it works like Wild Growth.

  10. #1370
    Fluffy Kitten Millennía's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkc-von View Post
    Probably the dumbest questions ever. If I'm channeling Soothing Mists on the tank and then do the instant cast Surging Mists on a DPS does the heal go to the tank (the soothing mists target) or does it go to the DPS (the Surging Mists target)?

    Also, spamming Jab for chi is bad idea, right?

    I should be using Tiger Palm and Blackout Kick to keep their respective buffs up, right?
    What I have noticed is that if I am channelling soothing mist on the tank and try to cast surging mist on a DPS then the heal goes to the tank instead because that is who is receiving the Soothing Mists channel.

    Anyway - I just reached 90 on my Monk and he will be my main as Mistweaver in raids. I went with the Chi Torpedo talent but I read somewhere that there is a macro that can do the healing of Chi Torpedo but it doesn't actually propel you forward. Does anyone know that Macro?

  11. #1371
    Dreadlord Ogait's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millennía View Post
    ... I went with the Chi Torpedo talent but I read somewhere that there is a macro that can do the healing of Chi Torpedo but it doesn't actually propel you forward. Does anyone know that Macro?
    Please give!
    Realm First Monk & Hellscream's Downfall

  12. #1372
    Doesn't exist any more I'm afraid.

  13. #1373
    You used to be able to toggle walk before using Chi Torpedo to drastically reduce the travel distance.

    However 5.1 fixed this.
    Jumping and using it in the air still reduced the distance a little i believe.

  14. #1374
    Reduces the travel distance by about 20 yards.

  15. #1375
    Field Marshal Solemnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Our problem is imo uplift.
    When we had ReM on 10+ people regularly it was OP, when that dropped with the nerf to 2 bounces uplift became basically crap and we moved to Chi Burst.
    Now blizz obviously doesn't want us to rely on a talent as our main healing spell so there changes Chi Burst.
    yet this leaves us with having to go back to uplift and frankly uplift on 5-6 people who you have very little control over is just plain bad. If blizz wants to fix us they need to detach uplift from ReM and add some other mechanism to replace it.

    Give us control over who we heal and balance the numbers from there. Right now we can either blanked the entire raid (OP) or heal a a handfull of people, half of who probably dont even need the healing (Crap).
    This worried me as well reading over the notes. I've been having this lingering feeling that Blizzard is taking their usual "We're right and know what's best, so we will pick the worst comments to quote and rebuttal, even though we may understand there is a fundamental issue (or issues) with the spec at hand." I think it's because they listened too much with Death Knights, now we're having to deal with the stuck up parenting.

    With the removal of the second tier talent chi costs, they're basically pushing a statement for uplift, fistweaving, or enveloping mist.

    I'm not sure if the Enveloping Mist change was a tooltip fix or part of some past hotfix, but I simply hate the spell. Its color doesn't play nice on my bars anymore, it heals in the most useless of times, and costs 3 chi. You're gambling or fighting with the other healers just to make that spell worth while.

    With some exceptions, I am having the hardest time finding use of Uplift in 25m raids. It's on 6 people, and half of them are already healed up or in the attention of other healers. Use the 2 chi on the 3 who need healing?... or the ~8-10 that will get hit by Chi Burst. With the removal of Chi Burst (and friends)'s chi cost, there really isn't a choice. I can semi-predict when damage will go out, but it's still pretty clunky and really gets on my nerves with the involvement of thought and upkeep ratio to it's lack of healing. I worded it like the talent spells died, but no they'll do their own healing thing on their cooldowns, which may make up for it somewhat. I'm looking at you Resto Shamans.. *death glare*

    Don't get me started on our lack of Utility. I really like Life Cocoon now, but I don't think it's really that great to tip the scale seeing as it's on one person.
    Last edited by Solemnity; 2012-12-29 at 08:29 PM.
    Minty Mistweaver Monk
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  16. #1376
    Wouldn't pass judgement on the 5.2 notes yet, they may or may not add more options for chi expenditure.

  17. #1377
    This is going to sound weird.

    I've been healing on my monk, she's now 88. I started at 85. Almost every piece of my gear has spirit, simply for leveling.

    My first dungeon, I was reserved, I stuck specifically to healing spells. No problems, never low on mana, yadda yadda.

    Second dungeon, my guildies told me I should try out fistweaving.

    ...out of mana every single time I tried it. I can get the blackout kick/tiger palm buffs up, but doing so, either through jab or renewing mists, REALLY eats into my mana.

    Is there something I'm missing here? Spinning Crane Kick caused me to OOM even faster. >_>

    Now, is it just simpler to stick specifically to healing through spells until raids? I always hear you can't be a very optimal mistweaver unless you fistweave, but the amount of mana I lose doing so makes me wonder how that's even right.
    Last edited by Myzou; 2012-12-30 at 01:36 PM.

  18. #1378
    Quote Originally Posted by Myzou View Post
    This is going to sound weird.

    I've been healing on my monk, she's now 88. I started at 85. Almost every piece of my gear has spirit, simply for leveling.

    My first dungeon, I was reserved, I stuck specifically to healing spells. No problems, never low on mana, yadda yadda.

    Second dungeon, my guildies told me I should try out fistweaving.

    ...out of mana every single time I tried it. I can get the blackout kick/tiger palm buffs up, but doing so, either through jab or renewing mists, REALLY eats into my mana.

    Is there something I'm missing here? Spinning Crane Kick caused me to OOM even faster. >_>

    Now, is it just simpler to stick specifically to healing through spells until raids? I always hear you can't be a very optimal mistweaver unless you fistweave, but the amount of mana I lose doing so makes me wonder how that's even right.
    The thing is, Mistweaver is in my opinion a very interactive and interesting healing spec precisely for the following reason: There are several styles you can approach to heal specific situations, some being more effective than others.

    That being said, don't take too many conclusions based off what you're experiencing in 5 mans. You need to take a different perspective for raiding, and even between 10 man and 25 man there are quite a few differences. Eminence healing USED to be very efficient because of the low mana cost of jab which enabled you to have a sort of melee rotation if you will, but with the 30% mana cost increase it is slightly more situational and you tend to just let your character auto attack which is one of the advantages of eminence healing: free, smart heals.

    Nevertheless, fistweaving has been since the launch of MoP a main source of mana issues for low lvl / geared monks until you reach an optimal amount of spirit. You will find that with upgrades your mana issues will disappear.

    All that can be advised for your situation is to practice keeping your Serpent's Zeal and Tiger Power buffs up and, as tedious as it sounds, allow your character to simply auto attack if there isn't much damage going on. Truth be told, downtime during some raid encounters is bound to happen and getting those free eminence heals is an efficient way to keep on some smart heals for your tank and you get to do some dps which always helps. If you constantly jab as a sort of filler for more tiger palms or blackout kicks you will oom, as will any monk. It isn't very cheap to jab continuously.

  19. #1379
    Quote Originally Posted by Myzou View Post
    This is going to sound weird.

    I've been healing on my monk, she's now 88. I started at 85. Almost every piece of my gear has spirit, simply for leveling.

    My first dungeon, I was reserved, I stuck specifically to healing spells. No problems, never low on mana, yadda yadda.

    Second dungeon, my guildies told me I should try out fistweaving.

    ...out of mana every single time I tried it. I can get the blackout kick/tiger palm buffs up, but doing so, either through jab or renewing mists, REALLY eats into my mana.

    Is there something I'm missing here? Spinning Crane Kick caused me to OOM even faster. >_>

    Now, is it just simpler to stick specifically to healing through spells until raids? I always hear you can't be a very optimal mistweaver unless you fistweave, but the amount of mana I lose doing so makes me wonder how that's even right.
    Fistweaving is very mana expensive, more so then ordinary healing. you need a lot of spirit to sustain it.

  20. #1380
    Quote Originally Posted by zonde View Post
    The thing is, Mistweaver is in my opinion a very interactive and interesting healing spec precisely for the following reason: There are several styles you can approach to heal specific situations, some being more effective than others.

    That being said, don't take too many conclusions based off what you're experiencing in 5 mans. You need to take a different perspective for raiding, and even between 10 man and 25 man there are quite a few differences. Eminence healing USED to be very efficient because of the low mana cost of jab which enabled you to have a sort of melee rotation if you will, but with the 30% mana cost increase it is slightly more situational and you tend to just let your character auto attack which is one of the advantages of eminence healing: free, smart heals.

    Nevertheless, fistweaving has been since the launch of MoP a main source of mana issues for low lvl / geared monks until you reach an optimal amount of spirit. You will find that with upgrades your mana issues will disappear.

    All that can be advised for your situation is to practice keeping your Serpent's Zeal and Tiger Power buffs up and, as tedious as it sounds, allow your character to simply auto attack if there isn't much damage going on. Truth be told, downtime during some raid encounters is bound to happen and getting those free eminence heals is an efficient way to keep on some smart heals for your tank and you get to do some dps which always helps. If you constantly jab as a sort of filler for more tiger palms or blackout kicks you will oom, as will any monk. It isn't very cheap to jab continuously.
    I thought you needed the Blackout Kick buff to have your autoattacks heal? I thought Eminence only affected yellow hits?

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