Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1

    H Madness - cooldown issue - kept dying with 3+ cooldowns going at once

    We finally got H Spine down because our group was here and we got a few tries in on H Madness. Well, the first platform (green) isn't an issue, but by the 3rd (yellow), I'll pop divine protection, stay of execution, and ardent defender followed by a 3HP WoG and it 1 shots me. I tried divine protection, guardian and ardent defender and it still 1 shot me some how.

    And the log screwed up with folder permissions when I upgraded to Win8 so it didn't log tonight =/.

  2. #2
    For madness you need to be stacking stamina as a paladin, if you aren't already.

    "Scientists explore what is; engineers create what has not been." -Paul Wright

  3. #3
    Do you have any logs?

    If you don't have Divine glyphed for magical and not physical then it shouldn't be possible for that to kill you. Unless I guess you have like 180KHP.

    20% Ardent
    20% DP
    55K SoE
    25K MINIMUM WOG Shield

    That's enough to live, adding in that you said you tried GOAK + DP + AD and died, then you're leaving out some detail or doing something way wrong.

    Also, is this 10 man or 25? I was going to do some math but then I realized I didn't know which for.

    You can also ad a paladins HoS for every impale. That extra bit helps a lot. If you don't have one, then have your Priest PW:S you right before the hit, shadow/disc/holy can all do this. I mean it's not NEEDED, but it can help if you are struggling.
    Last edited by panonadin; 2012-06-08 at 04:33 AM.

  4. #4
    10m. And I'm not 100% if it was a 1 shot. It could of taken me extremely low and died from a melee. I don't have any logs since the folder permissions screwed up and never wrote the file.

    We have a DK tank tanking with me and he's having the same problem of dying with major cooldowns up.

    And you say, stack stam is the way to go on this fight for a pally, I've got 316k health fully buffed with the red buff up. Is that not enough then? I could always switch out the stay for heroic soulshifter for more stam, but then I lose the stay of execution cooldown and drop to like 97-98% ctc.

  5. #5
    If you have 316k with red buff and full raid buffs that means you have 221.2k without it(3rd and 4th its gone)

    Impale hits for 800k
    Reduced by 25% = 600k
    Reduced by 10% for tank debuff on target = 540k
    Reduced by 10% from Healer buff on tank = 486k
    Reduced by 10% from Prot pally talent = 437.4k
    Reduced by 20% from Divine Prot(unglyphed of course) = 349.9k

    Ok so thats everything that will be up for every single impale. So our base Impale dmg is 349.9k.

    With Ardent it will now hit for 244.9k

    Add Stay of Execution(56k absorb) 189k(before priest/holy pally bubbles on you)

    If you have a holy paladin you should have him Hand of Sac you on all 4 platforms. You Hand of Sac the DK tank on all 4 platforms, you also should be Raid Walling every impale for the DK tank.

    As for the DK he should be Dancing Rune Weapon + Army on #3. Of course he bone shields every impale and IBF 2nd and 4th.

    Also, CTC cap for madness is pointless. The only thing that hits you for avoidable damage is the Corruption and even that hits for shit. Bloods and Terrors are spell damage hits. Don't drop stay its a free 56k off each impale. Just use one stam trinket and stay.

    As for the DK he also should be ready to mass stack blood shields as impale is being cast(unless its #3 he needs to DRW then Army as impale is cast. If he casts before its too early and it wont work.
    Last edited by Jellospally; 2012-06-08 at 04:54 AM.


  6. #6
    We're using a Disc Priest, Resto Druid and Resto Shaman for healers.

    Shadow Priest, Affliction Warlock, Surv or MM Hunter (he likes to switch a lot), Frost DK, Fire Mage for DPS.

    Me (pally) and DK tanks.

    I usually take the first impale on green platform. Dream and divine prot I believe is all I use there, I can't remember. The dk then takes it for the next impale and uses dream + bone shield I believe. I take it back and it's dead before the next one.

    Red platform I'm using divine prot if it's up, stay of exec and guardian and a 3hp WoG and it barely gets it by I believe it was.

  7. #7
    Dreadlord Choice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Gold Coast, Australia
    Posts
    936
    AD is useful for the 20% reduction on the impale, for 3/4 impales in the fight you have 50% + 20% for 70% less, with that one you have 20% + 20% for 40%. 40% of the damage, aligned with the stay and WoG shield should be plenty to survive it with the 25% nerf.

    It only became possible to do it without the 50% cd recently, up until now you'd need to have someone else soak the initial impale on yellow, I found feral druids to be good for it because you don't lose the ~10 seconds or so on waiting for a priest/hunter/etc to be impaled. If you do end up having someone else soak the one when your 50% is down, the stay will serve no real use and you'll want to use another trinket.

    If you 1 tank it running 1 tank/2 heals you should easily be able to beat the second impale on all platforms. The fight is a joke now.

    Avast | Signature by Pangcakes | YouTube Channel

  8. #8
    DK should never take much dmg if you Raid Wall and HoS him everytime(and if you don't you should because these are worthless everywhere else in this fight)

    For you to live on #3 get Pain Supp from the priest.


  9. #9
    I should be able to raid wall the DK every platform with a 4pc right? Same with HoS?

    And if CTC isn't that important, how about reforging to hit/exp to get more damage out to cut the time the corruption is up? I think I was only doing 32-37k on our few attempts.

    First platform, dream and divine protection should be enough right?
    Second platform, divine protection if it's up, I think it should be with stay and guardian.
    Third platform, divine protection, pain suppression, ardent defender and WoG shield.
    Fourth platform, divine protection, guardian, WoG shield, stay. And if I get the instant bolt while tanking I'll just bubble cancel aura through that.

    For the DK, with my 4pc, I should be able to divine guardian him every platform right? And then I should be able to HoS him every other one or what? Won't I need to use a cooldown when I HoS him though or else I may die or what?

  10. #10
    The Patient UnderworldSoup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Newfoundland, Canada
    Posts
    303
    Quote Originally Posted by galook View Post
    I should be able to raid wall the DK every platform with a 4pc right? Same with HoS?

    For the DK, with my 4pc, I should be able to divine guardian him every platform right? And then I should be able to HoS him every other one or what? Won't I need to use a cooldown when I HoS him though or else I may die or what?
    Yes. Every platform is about 2 - 2.5 minutes apart at each given point. It's for this reason that Guardian of Ancient Kings cannot be relied on for every platform, but here's my own strategy:

    Every impale, I have a macro that uses my Stay of Execution, Divine Protection, Avenging Wrath, and uses a Judgment (for the 2pc, Delayed Judgment). I then use a three point Word of Glory, and an additional CD where necessary (50% reduction), alternating Dream [P1, Impale 2], GoAK [P2, Impale 2], Pain Suppression [P3, Impale 1], GoAK [P4, Impale 1]. My secondary trinket is Indomitable Pride (this will ensure that a quick melee after an Impale cannot finish you off if you end up low). I give our off tank a Hand of Sacrifice every Impale and it only takes my health down by about 30% when it impacts.

    With this combination of reduction, our Restoration Shaman's Ancestral Fortitude, and our Discipline Priest's Divine Aegis and Shield, I sometimes take absolutely no visible damage from the Impales. It's all about knowing how to anticipate the incoming damage -- I admit I go a bit overboard to keep it lower, but I find it's worth it.

    However, save Divine Guardian for the raid damage. Your Death Knight should be able to handle his own Impale with a Hand of Sacrifice if necessary, he should not need a raid cooldown wasted to ensure his survival from a mechanic that was pretty much built around his own defensive ability.
    Last edited by UnderworldSoup; 2012-06-08 at 06:19 AM.

  11. #11
    As prot paladin I run with this :
    1) Dream, DP, AD, HoS from our holy paladin -So mush overkill for the first Platform
    2) DP, GoAK and HoS
    3) DP, AD,HoS and Pain sub
    4) DP, GoAK and HoS

    But looking at your setup you can't have HoS but your using the trinket that should help
    What you can also do is make your hunter FD one of your impales.

  12. #12
    This is how I do it (trinkets are Stay of Execution and stam trink)

    1: DP, Dream, HoSac
    2: DP, GoAK, HoSac
    3: DP, AD, HoSac
    4: DP, GoAK, Hosac

    Add to that trinket on every one, 3 hp WoG absorb, judge 2set absorb, stoneform and spriest shield. The only platform I'm ever close to dying on is sometimes the 3rd, due to no GoAK, but just make sure you get everything possible on that one, and it's np. I'm stam gemmed (have been since start of patch).

    If you are progressing this one and are having trouble with impales, i suggest stam gems, stam/armor meta, stam trinkets (SoE if possible along with a stam trink).

  13. #13
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Luxembourg
    Posts
    142
    You have much more HP than me and I take close to insignificant damage. I tank in Prot Gear with a lot of it optimised for Prot DPS (Strength Enchants/Few Strength Gems etc)

    I have tanked it with both a DK and Paladin so I'll run it through on both.

    Setup

    1 Tank (DK unless you are bad at ret/don't have gear for it vs. his dps gear)
    2 Healers (haven't used 3 in a long time unless the healers are very weak)

    SP or Hunter + Rogue for taking second impales (the rogue for platform 4).

    Paladin

    Make sure DP is unglyphed and you are using Stay of Execution

    If you get a second impale make sure all melee run out and the SP or Hunter take it. Make sure to Hand of Protection the SP so that he doesn't get melee'd/spam heal him or give him a guardian spirit before he disperses. Hand of Protection won't work on a Hunter so don't do that.

    Remember to always get a absorb shield up from the priest every impale upwards of 66k but atleast the generel PWS for rapture at 20-30kish.

    1. Dream + DP + Stay of Execution
    2. 5 seconds before on the impale timer pop guardian, it will last up. + DP + SoE
    3. Pain Suppression/Hand of Sacrifice + DP + SoE (+Ardent Defender if necessary) (Use rallying cry if you're really that behind)
    4. Guardian + DP + SoE

    I always use Tol Barad trinket as well and pop the Mirror when I am tanking the bloods. I also save AD for this point incase I have to tank the Corruption and Bloods.

    In phase 2, pop all your cooldowns and externals on the first set of adds with Dream and don't forget Tol Barad trinket if you have it ofcourse. Bubble the stacks around 8 then just cancelaura macro Divine Shield off to keep them on you. On the second set pop what's left and they'll die; even if you die they're going down with you and your death is very expendable at this point.

    DK

    FUCKING LOLOMETER. If I want I take 0 damage from all the impales combined if I am fast and good enough to get a 200K blood shield before each impale.

    1. Dream + Bone Shield
    2. 5 seconds before impale cast time, Icebound + Bone Shield
    3. Bone Shield + Cast Army /Pain Suppress, Sacrifice etc.. OR I prefer using Empower Rune Weapon and just spam 3 more Death Strikes giving me a 223K Shield /lol
    4. Icebound + Bone Shield

    I always use AMS when I'm tanking the bloods and I tank with LFR Soulshifter Vortex + VP Trinket.

    Phase 2 is the hugest joke in DK's. I pop dodge trinket + dancing rune weapon + dream + ams and I don't gain a single stack of the magic debuff. If I want I pop it at 3 stacks and they just easily reset with all the avoidance. I can even save army (what I prefer doing) and having them tank if i'm bored.

    Good Luck
    90 Lifire (Main Prot) # Nimifire (Prot) # Tiafire (Prot) # Rikkufire (Brewmaster) # Miufire (Guardian) # Vifire (Mage) # Kyufire (Disc) # Yunifire (Blood/Frost)
    SPARKS 13/14 HC Recruiting

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Choice View Post
    AD is useful for the 20% reduction on the impale, for 3/4 impales in the fight you have 50% + 20% for 70% less, with that one you have 20% + 20% for 40%. 40% of the damage, aligned with the stay and WoG shield should be plenty to survive it with the 25% nerf.
    Just a clarification, multiple damage reduction cd's do not stack additively, they stack multiplicatively.
    A 50% damage reduction used at the same time as a 20% damage reduction is not 70% DR.
    Its 0.50*0.80 = 0.40 damage taken or 60% Damage reduction.

    100K initial hit
    50% dr--> 50k
    20% dr--> 40k hit
    Total reduction of 60k which is 60% DR

    20% DR and another 20% DR is 0.80*0.80 = 0.64 damage taken, or 36% DR. etc.

  15. #15
    I'll tell the DK tank about these suggestions and I'll be sure to have a log to post Sunday night.

    Thanks.

  16. #16
    Here's our log from tonight. We tried me dpsing for a few attempts and then went back to 2 tanks 3 heals.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/b6rp6q605ingm8i7/

  17. #17
    I have never had any problems solo tanking this

    Platform 1

    Dream + DP + Stay of Execution + Guarded by Light

    Platform 2

    Guardian + DP + Stay of Execution + Guarded by Light

    Platform 3

    External cd (we use disc priest) + you guessed it DP + Stay of Execution + Guarded by Light

    Platform 4

    Back to Guardian plus the others.

    Could just use 2 stam trinkets, but i prefer Stay of Execution. Although i haven't found a way to survive the 3rd platform without help.
    Last edited by stevos; 2012-06-11 at 01:53 PM.

  18. #18
    Using Divine Guardian for the DK is a waste of a cooldown. He doesn't need it and saves so much more healer mana if used during the 2nd set of blistering tentacles.

    As others have said, Dream (GoAK, PainSup, GoAK) + DP + Stay of Exec + WoG should keep you alive. If not, it means your healers left you at half health going into an impale.

  19. #19
    Im not sure why everyone is using so many cooldowns unless you are single tanking it? I use:

    P1 - Dream (only)
    P2 - GoAK
    P3 - Usually have a SP take this one just so everything is up for P4 but if I take it then AD + DP
    P4 - Right at bolt I pop GoAK + raid bubble + DP (or AD doesnt really matter and can get away with just GoAK if you used AD and DP on P3), immediately after bolt lands but BEFORE impale hits me I LoH and WoG

    Ive only died a couple times and it was mainly because I fat fingered one of my CD's or the healer was stupid and stood too close to the bolt.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Jellospally View Post
    If you have 316k with red buff and full raid buffs that means you have 221.2k without it(3rd and 4th its gone)

    Impale hits for 800k
    Reduced by 25% = 600k
    Reduced by 10% for tank debuff on target = 540k
    Reduced by 10% from Healer buff on tank = 486k
    Reduced by 10% from Prot pally talent = 437.4k
    Reduced by 20% from Divine Prot(unglyphed of course) = 349.9k

    Ok so thats everything that will be up for every single impale. So our base Impale dmg is 349.9k.
    Just asking a question, but didn't you forget the armor? Since it's physical damage, shouldn't the it be reduced by ~60% because of the tank's armor ?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •