Guildwars 2 PvE Endgame Reality Check!!!

[Frozen Death Knight]

Of course. You are comparing wow's proclaimed endgame dungeon endgame vs. gw2's proclaimed dungeon endgame. But gw2's endgame is so very different, as is wow's endgame as a whole.

I agree. I heavily dislike when people make statements like this without analyzing both games within the context of their own gameplay, since that would have been a far better comparison than the one presented in the OP.

[Drakhar]

Hmm lets me see I compared how many raid and how many times you can do them. hmmmmm seems like I understand very well maybe you should re read...

you place a quote of soemthing i said in my post that had anything to do with anything other then raids / raid lockouts and that gw2 allows you to play as muchas you want and ill delete my account off here.

Settle down man, I'm not trying to be hostile I'm trying to help you out. I just want you to realize that your OP was not very well thought out, though I see what you are trying to get at. With the exception of one or two posts this thread has been civil and there is some discussion to be salvaged from it if you want.

[Inexxa]

People will play what they enjoy, if the GW2 endgame sucks so bad then I presume a lot of people will run back to WoW /shrug.

[Hellspawnxxx]

Hellspawnxxx, you are acting ridiculous. You really are not making yourself any favours by making statements like that.

You made the argument about the Guild Wars 2 Dungeons not having any restrictions and compared it only to Normal/Heroic Mode Raids and said that there were not a lot of end game content because of that. That still is a flawed argument, since there are plenty of factors to take in from both WoW and GW 2 to make the comparison work, and you have not presented the argument to make it a fair comparison to either game.

Also, just because people disagree with you does not mean that people are twisting your own words. You simply have not been doing a good job at presenting your argument well enough. That is your own fault, not ours.

Didnt realise plain and simple english was hard to understand. so yes I appologise I will in the future to be sure to be absoluty accurate and be as lamen as possiable as to not confuse anyone who couldnt see that my thread was about that guildwars 2 has alot of endgame content because its dungeon system doesnt have lockouts.

your right how foolish of me next time instead of just saying guildwars 2 has more available endgame party content because of not having lockouts. ill be sure to include a list of respresentations of my examples.... oh wait thats right i did do that I broke down my explanation to avoid confusion but still people couldnt comprehend what i was saying.

tell you what you type out what i was trying to explain and ill delete my post and post your version how does that sound. and lets see if people dont take what you typed and turn it into a flame war.

good luck and i look forward to reposting your revision....

[Frozen Death Knight]

Didnt realise plain and simple english was hard to understand. so yes I appologise I will in the future to be sure to be absoluty accurate and be as lamen as possiable as to not confuse anyone who couldnt see that my thread was about that guildwars 2 has alot of endgame content because its dungeon system doesnt have lockouts.

your right how foolish of me next time instead of just saying guildwars 2 has more available endgame party content because of not having lockouts. ill be sure to include a list of respresentations of my examples.... oh wait thats right i did do that I broke down my explanation to avoid confusion but still people couldnt comprehend what i was saying.

tell you what you type out what i was trying to explain and ill delete my post and post your version how does that sound. and lets see if people dont take what you typed and turn it into a flame war.

good luck and i look forward to reposting your revision....

Um, why the heck are you acting like I have stomped on you? No need to be so hostile, you know.

Also, as it should be very clear by now, your point has not got across to a lot of people here, so how the heck should I know what your point really was? Only you can fix that, not me, or anyone else here.

[Drakhar]

Alright I went through the OP again for you and I'll give my suggestions:

First, the price comparisons of "WoW costs xxx per month and GW2 is FREE!" needs to go. Completely.

I think the comparison of the focus of "PvE endgame" being defined as "get BiS until the next content patch" in WoW vs. "prestige items and titles" in GW2 is okay, and accurate. However I also think it's worth pointing out that there's a hell of a lot more in both games worth pursuing at max level.

The number of raids comparison, honestly comparing WoW raids to GW2 explorable mode dungeons in the first place is just off, they're just not a good way to look at the two games side by side, even if you consider both to be the "PvE endgame" focus. They're just completely different styles, of completely different games, with completely different design intents. Just take the WoW comparison out, focus on the dungeons in GW2. Yes, we have quite a few threads on this already, but I don't see the harm in bringing it up again since it's a topic that comes up all the damn time.

For example: GW2 dungeons... 8 with a story mode and 3 explorable branching modes each. There are dynamic events in them. The content is difficult. 3 are max level but the others will still be a challenge due to level scaling. They have cosmetic rewards that will be among the best and most presitious in the game.

Edit your OP and inform about the quantity and features of GW2 dungeons, and you'll have a much better reaction to the post, and likely better discussion.

Didnt realise plain and simple english was hard to understand. so yes I appologise I will in the future to be sure to be absoluty accurate and be as lamen as possiable as to not confuse anyone who couldnt see that my thread was about that guildwars 2 has alot of endgame content because its dungeon system doesnt have lockouts.

your right how foolish of me next time instead of just saying guildwars 2 has more available endgame party content because of not having lockouts. ill be sure to include a list of respresentations of my examples.... oh wait thats right i did do that I broke down my explanation to avoid confusion but still people couldnt comprehend what i was saying.

tell you what you type out what i was trying to explain and ill delete my post and post your version how does that sound. and lets see if people dont take what you typed and turn it into a flame war.

good luck and i look forward to reposting your revision....

Heh I actually started writing this post before I saw this response, not trying to be a dick just giving suggestions. I'm not sure if you're really comprehending what people are saying, this thread isn't even close to a flame war... Take a step back, take a deep breath, and realize that maybe, just maybe, your OP initially came off as a bit nonconstructive and lacking in substance and clarity. Humans are fallible ya know, and handling criticism well is generally admirable.

Um, why the heck are you acting like I have stomped on you? No need to be so hostile, you know.

Also, as it should be very clear by now, your point has not got across to a lot of people here, so how the heck should I know what your point really was? Only you can fix that, not me, or anyone else here.

Lmao well I tried at least. I'm thinking it's one part language barrier one part stream-of-consciousness posting (of which I am frequently guilty - but definitely not for a new thread).

[Hellspawnxxx]

Settle down man, I'm not trying to be hostile I'm trying to help you out. I just want you to realize that your OP was not very well thought out, though I see what you are trying to get at. With the exception of one or two posts this thread has been civil and there is some discussion to be salvaged from it if you want.

thats easy for you to say your not the one being attacked. im not an english major nore am I shakespear. but Im pretty sure my thread was for the most part comprehensible that people should have seen this was a simple discussion about that the fun stuff the cool stuff like raids / dungeons can be done as much as you want in guildwars 2.

this turned into a well you can also do this and that and your flaming on wow and you punch babies and kittens your full of hate.

i mean ya something simple to allow people to un learn and open thier eyes to what lack endgame content actaully means. considering how many youtube postings / forum postings ive seen of people saying well if theres no gear tread mill theres no endgame is ubsurd ok ya your gear treadmill is a form of endgame but your locked out till the following week. in guildwars 2 i can play endgame content dungeon bosses (so im clear) as much as I want.

---------- Post added 2012-06-08 at 03:05 PM ----------

Alright I went through the OP again for you and I'll give my suggestions:

First, the price comparisons of "WoW costs xxx per month and GW2 is FREE!" needs to go. Completely.

I think the comparison of the focus of "PvE endgame" being defined as "get BiS until the next content patch" in WoW vs. "prestige items and titles" in GW2 is okay, and accurate. However I also think it's worth pointing out that there's a hell of a lot more in both games worth pursuing at max level.

The number of raids comparison, honestly comparing WoW raids to GW2 explorable mode dungeons in the first place is just off, they're just not a good way to look at the two games side by side, even if you consider both to be the "PvE endgame" focus. They're just completely different styles, of completely different games, with completely different design intents. Just take the WoW comparison out, focus on the dungeons in GW2. Yes, we have quite a few threads on this already, but I don't see the harm in bringing it up again since it's a topic that comes up all the damn time.

For example: GW2 dungeons... 8 with a story mode and 3 explorable branching modes each. There are dynamic events in them. The content is difficult. 3 are max level but the others will still be a challenge due to level scaling. They have cosmetic rewards that will be among the best and most presitious in the game.

Edit your OP and inform about the quantity and features of GW2 dungeons, and you'll have a much better reaction to the post, and likely better discussion.

I removed my Price comparisons from OP but I dissagree with your second comment.

because again this isnt about mechanics or comparing the 2 styles. WoW raids / GW2 Dungeons are both party required both have bosses and both are the high lights of the games titles / prestige items, in other words in the stuff people want to do.

so I dont have to break down anything about the styles, the only thing people need to know is that WoW has limited raid playtime because of lockouts and GW2 has unlimited playtime because they have no lockouts.

thank you for your correction about the $$$ amount comparison it has been removed.

[Fencers]

Is it possible to do LFR, 10 man and 20 man raids in WOW indivually?

What I mean is, on Monday you did 10 man, on Tuesday you did LFR, etc.

[Hellspawnxxx]

I agree. I heavily dislike when people make statements like this without analyzing both games within the context of their own gameplay, since that would have been a far better comparison than the one presented in the OP.

who cares of its diffrent. this thread is about mechanics of the dungeons or what you do in them. Dungeons / raids its the content everyone wants to do if they enjoy PvE and in WoW its limited to once per week where as in GW2 its unlimited.

what does his responce have anything to do at all about raid lockouts and availability and therefor how is that a better explaination of my thread.

[Vutar]

The problem for me would be that you don't have any motivation to go do them, it is the illusion of a lot to do that people like. why do them again after you have completed them once? You don't need to gear up for later content. I'm not trying to hate on guild wars I think I'm just a fanboy for normal raids with lockouts and gear etc. Also it just isn't the same feeling with 5 people as it is with 10, or 20, or 25 etc.

And what he said ^.

I would ask the same thing about WoW. What is the point of end game instances and such? You grind a little, get the gear, then sit in the city for 4 hours a day being bored. This has been the WoW end game for years now. I had hoped they would change it for MoP but instead they concentrated on Panda's...

If I am going to be bored at max level I'd rather it be with no subscription fee.

[Jtbrig7390]

Is it possible to do LFR, 10 man and 20 man raids in WOW indivually?

What I mean is, on Monday you did 10 man, on Tuesday you did LFR, etc.

LFR is 25man only and its lockout is not shared with normal/heroic 10/25man.

[Hellspawnxxx]

Is it possible to do LFR, 10 man and 20 man raids in WOW indivually?

What I mean is, on Monday you did 10 man, on Tuesday you did LFR, etc.

yes its possiable. normal / hardmode share a diffrent lockout from LFR

[Frozen Death Knight]

I removed my Price comparisons from OP but I dissagree with your second comment.

because again this isnt about mechanics or comparing the 2 styles. WoW raids / GW2 Dungeons are both party required both have bosses and both are the high lights of the games titles / prestige items, in other words in the stuff people want to do.

so I dont have to break down anything about the styles, the only thing people need to know is that WoW has limited raid playtime because of lockouts and GW2 has unlimited playtime because they have no lockouts.

thank you for your correction about the $$$ amount comparison it has been removed.

The problem here is that who are you arguing for? The casuals? The harcores? What kind of player groups are you referring to when making this argument? If you are arguing for the casuals, then there are much more to do than just Dungeons, which makes your comparison not work for either game, since you bring up no other points. If you are talking about the Hardcores, then it probably would be a better comparison, but you still are ignoring huge portions of both games that Hardcores would do as well, which also make the argument feel incomplete and not work as well as it should.

---------- Post added 2012-06-08 at 03:14 PM ----------

who cares of its diffrent. this thread is about mechanics of the dungeons or what you do in them. Dungeons / raids its the content everyone wants to do if they enjoy PvE and in WoW its limited to once per week where as in GW2 its unlimited.

what does his responce have anything to do at all about raid lockouts and availability and therefor how is that a better explaination of my thread.

A ton of people care, since different people like different stuff. You are arguing about replayability yet wish to ignore portions of both games that people would be interested in. You know, not everyone runs Raids and Dungeons in WoW and not everyone will run Dungeons in GW 2. If you are going to present your argument like this, it means that none of the games have any replayability for those people, which makes the comparison fall flat on its face.

[Fencers]

yes its possiable. normal / hardmode share a diffrent lockout from LFR

So it is possible to do:
10 man - Mon
20 man - Tues
10 man hard - Wed
20 man hard - Thur
LFR - Fri
LFR hard - Sat


I do not play World of Warcraft, but that seems like a lot.

[Drakhar]

Is it possible to do LFR, 10 man and 20 man raids in WOW indivually?

What I mean is, on Monday you did 10 man, on Tuesday you did LFR, etc.

There's a shared lockout between 10 and 25 man raids (since Cataclysm, I think you said you stopped playing before that right?). Drops in 10 and 25 man share the same loot table (2 drops vs 6 drops respectively, and higher legendary quest item drops and valor points in 25). LFR you can run as many times as you want, but you're only eligible for drops on a given encounter the first time you complete it that week. The LFR loot table is a lower item level version of the normal mode (and a fancy green "Raid Finder" tag), the heroic mode loot table is a higher item level version (and sports "Heroic!!11!11one1" green text... okay there's no exclamation points, but wouldn't that be way cooler?)

Edit: you also can't run a heroic AND a normal mode in the same week like you could in the Crusader's Colisseum. Apparently people didn't like running 4 modes of the same instance a week

So it'd be:
10 man OR 25 man normal OR heroic - Tues
LFR (25 only, easier difficulty than normal) - whenver the hell you want as often as you want, just don't expect loot!

Does that clear it up?

[Loaf Lord]

Edit: deleted.

[LazarusLong]

This isnt a WoW vs GW2 thread trust me I played and Loved WoW for 6 yrs. Its just most MMO's are very simular too WoW and WoW is the most reconizable and understandable for the masses.

Id also like to point out that yes heroic dungeons can be done but most players once they are geared from heroics too run raids they stop running heroics. raids and dailys are probably the 2 dominating PvE things to do at max level. which both are on lockouts raids weekly and dailys well daily...

---------- Post added 2012-06-08 at 01:41 PM ----------



Point is do you or most? No because most players once they obtain thier gear to start raiding they dont run dungeons anymore making heroic dungeons part of the gear treadmill and pointless. well atleast till the next raid comes out and its time to grind more heroic gear to have the required ilvl to run the current raid content.

This is WoW versus GW post because you are comparing them (and unfairly) in your dawn own first post.
Also, challenge mode.

[Jtbrig7390]

So it is possible to do:
10 man - Mon
20 man - Tues
10 man hard - Wed
20 man hard - Thur
LFR - Fri
LFR hard - Sat


I do not play World of Warcraft, but that seems like a lot.

nope you can do LFR anytime you want but if you kill a boss u can not loot it again untill the fallowing week *but you can fight it again* 10/25man-normal/heroic raids share the same lockout so if you chose 10man heroic ds 5/7 tuseday you have to finish the last 2 in heroic or normal mode 10 or 25man LFR-Normal/heroic10-25 is 2 different lockouts total.

[Darkfrosty]

I don't understand why you are comparing dungeons to raids. Pretty sure wow will have more than 8 dungeons in MOP on top of 3 raids so your argument here seems to hold no weight.

Also being able to run a dungeon endless amount of times each week isn't really more end game content. Just seems like content that will get old faster because people can do it so much.

These thread are so pointless its just little kids trying to make WOW look bad because they either don't enjoy it or aren't very good at it. I'm sure GW2 will have good endgame but considering I think their main goal is to be different than WOW comparing the 2 isn't really helping the game out.

People compared SWTOR to WOW for months and look how that turned out.

[Fencers]

So they made 10 and 25 man raids the same? Why even bother...

Def. glad I quit. Horrible, lazy shit.