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  1. #1

    Rogue level 90 Talent preview

    So does anyone else think our talent preview in the recently released video was...lame compared to other classes? It saddens me that rogues haven't gotten much of anything new that looks cool. They could have made us throw a giant shuriken or something much cooler. It is probably why the rogue class is one of the least played classes. I understand the rogue class has nice advantages such as stealth, but when your class doesn't change much while everyone else is changing a lot it is sad. I just hope they change the graphic.
    Last edited by Gentile911; 2012-06-08 at 03:35 PM.

  2. #2
    What are you talking about? It like, gave throw a little additional spark you can pick up with a magnifying glass. It's not lame at all!
    Bovan.9481
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    What are you talking about? It like, gave throw a little additional spark you can pick up with a magnifying glass. It's not lame at all!
    The funny thing is throw now does the same animation as toss.

  4. #4
    The rogue animation preview kinda sums up our talent tree, especially the lvl 90 talents; Lacking, boring, unimaginative.

  5. #5
    Shuriken toss would be a decent ability to give us just like that, it's like scorch/fel flame/mindspike or something, we'll use it when we have to move away from the boss to prevent from capping energy, in PvP we'll use it to slow (if poisons proc on it). Its a terrible level 90 talent tbh. :/ Versatility just enhances another ability, but 1 minute cooldown was way too long to start with anyways. Anticipation is cool for PvE I guess, especially with those silly 20% chance or extra CP on crit procs.

    Shadowblades, Shroud of concealment and the minot glyph of vanish sound cooler then our lvl 90 talents tbh. Visually rogue has always been lacking, so nothing new here.

  6. #6
    Mechagnome khatsoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentile911 View Post
    ...throw a giant shuriken or something much cooler...
    No, thanks.
    Go play your awesome-visually-spelleffects class, rogue is not for you.

  7. #7
    Anticipation: Most people are finding you can use this as a pseudo Versatility, meaning, Slice and Dice and jump to a new target with five CP on the new target. This may prove to be worthwhile if they tweak it a bit.

    Shuriken Toss: Interesting ability, but it has too many short comings (I will address that in a bit).

    Versatility: Anticipation is superior than Versatility in PVE scenarios, and in PVP very limited.

    The biggest problem with the Rogue 90 talents, other than being bland, and not really significant rule breaks are as follows:

    1. These 90 talents rely too much on other talents or mechanics to make them more attractive. What do I mean? Here are a few examples:

    Shuriken Toss doesn't really have PVP value without Deadly Brew unless you use Crip as a non lethal poison. If you are using Crip as a non lethal poison then Leeching and Paralytic poison can be false choices for inexperienced players. Building up combo points from range while interesting you can't do much with those Combo points. Your choices are to 1. Hold onto those Combo Points or 2. Use Recuperate. Meaning, to be able to use those CP at range Deadly Throw is the most optimal. A minor sidetrack, I think Deadly Throw should stay base line so the value of Shuriken Toss increases in PVE and PVP. Let the interrupt and silence portion be part of the talent tree.

    Versatiliy is inferior to Anticipation based on what we know in PVE, so that leaves PVP. Well, without Deadly Throw (five CP requirement too), or Redirect + Shadow Step + Kidney Shot/Kick this is very poor 90 talent standing on its own.

    Now, yes talents should have synergy, but when the Rogue level 90 talents don't stand on their own and are appealing because of some synergy (Deadly Brew pretty much makes Shuriken Toss okay) something is amiss in my opinion.

    2. They do not really alter Rogue PVE rotations significantly enough. Yes this may be subjective, but in my opinion most players will not notice the difference of using Anticipation in PVE. For PVP only Shuriken Toss alters how you may play, but not by that much given Rogues have had a ranged snare for a while (Deadly Throw, Throw on poison weapon) now not really earth shattering.
    Last edited by Mafic; 2012-06-09 at 03:22 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Gentile911 View Post
    It is probably why the rogue class is one of the least played classes.
    Was there not a song which had the lyrics
    "50% of your server will be composed of rogues who role their class to be cheap" Theres plenty of rogues around, not to mention with the legendary thats on offer atm as well as being OP. The beauty of being a rogue is that you won't have to change, many people are hating on the change because they like the way their class is played and don't want to change. Be glad yours isn't changing coz more often than not its for the worse.

    One thing I'm looking forward to is shadowstep or preparation in any spec nerve strike also looks great too
    Originally Posted by Zarhym (Blue Tracker)

    We're confident the .01% left will be thrilled to attend a post-apocalyptic BlizzCon.

  9. #9
    Banned Alenarien's Avatar
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    People need to stop comparing themselves to Warlocks, who desperately needed attention, and Monks, the new class, in MoP. Not every class needs to get something new and shiny. By very definition, it makes no sense for a Rogue, who operates both incognito and inconspicuously, to be having flashy spells; hell, even Crimson Tempest is a bit too flashy with the whirly red swords of doom and lacklustre damage.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    People need to stop comparing themselves to Warlocks, who desperately needed attention, and Monks, the new class, in MoP. Not every class needs to get something new and shiny. By very definition, it makes no sense for a Rogue, who operates both incognito and inconspicuously, to be having flashy spells; hell, even Crimson Tempest is a bit too flashy with the whirly red swords of doom and lacklustre damage.
    Jesus, I hate it when people rationalize gameplay design choices by comparing it to real-world issues. A real rogue might not be flashy, but this is a game... I don't see a reason for a real rogue not to be in a constant state of Shadow Dancing. I.e. always being able to Ambush, whether he's "stealthed" or not. There's no reason for a rogue to have to stack this imaginary resource called "Combo Points". He'd be able to Eviscerate at any given time.

    Games do not work like that! Sometimes realism and sense have to be swept aside to give gameplay a little flavor.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    People need to stop comparing themselves to Warlocks, who desperately needed attention, and Monks, the new class, in MoP. Not every class needs to get something new and shiny. By very definition, it makes no sense for a Rogue, who operates both incognito and inconspicuously, to be having flashy spells; hell, even Crimson Tempest is a bit too flashy with the whirly red swords of doom and lacklustre damage.
    And rogues didn't?

  12. #12
    I thought it was funny that it still said "Rogue Talents".

    It should have said "Rogue Talent", because one of them is "Manage your secondary resource that other classes just have by spamming globals", and the other is "get some strange buff or something".

    That being said, I liked that it was so fast. Travel time can go to hell on ranged attacks, and shurikens are very small. The little sparkle was ok too. I want a minor glyph of rainbow strikes so that rainbows follow all my weapon swings, but I think that requires new tech or something.

  13. #13
    I was hoping for an ability to throw a vial of poison at people like Deadmines crazy lady did.

  14. #14
    The Patient
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    Blink and you'll miss it!

  15. #15
    Even before the guy in "trial of the press charge a lot on your mount" threw that vial, rogues were asking for a poison vial throw.


    Blizzard never addressed it, but here are my guesses as to why they didn't do it:

    -Would likely be similar to death and decay.
    -Even if different (cast at a target, or ground target like consecrate), would be hard to balance such that it wouldn't just be used on cooldown single target but also was worth using instead of fan.
    -Damage varies a lot by spec, as A gets poison damage boosts (less of an issue back before cata when all specs got those boosts). This could be cheesed around, but come on.


    It could definitely exist to land utility poisons. I mean, with a cooldown and a decent energy cost, Vial of Toxins could apply all non-damaging poisons every second to everyone standing in the cloud, which could persist for like five seconds (or could randomly apply a non-damaging poison each second for 10 seconds). Hell, someone should put that somewhere Blizzard will read it- if nothing else, maybe monks will get Vial of Brew or something :P

    With the current design, if it does damage it could NOT be a talent- it would have to be baseline or tied to a spec if it does damage. Still, should totally exist in one form or another.

  16. #16
    I'm sure it will be tweaked a lot before the game is released. Give it time.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Selvari7 View Post
    I'm sure it will be tweaked a lot before the game is released. Give it time.
    I wish I could be as hopeful as you.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Selvari7 View Post
    I'm sure it will be tweaked a lot before the game is released. Give it time.
    Wishful thinking.
    Look at amount of tweaks nigh every class gets per update and compare that to the rogue class. Seriously, they either design EVERYTHING else, then the rogues. Or we'll indeed end with what we currently have. Either way, Blizz are being dicks...

  19. #19
    I guess its hard to make rogues look flashy when their class is intended to look ...unflashy.
    ~

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharlok View Post
    I guess its hard to make rogues look flashy when their class is intended to look ...unflashy.
    Thinking back to a little game called Maplestory, their version of rogues were able to: Create a double ganger who'd mimic the rogues moves, they could throw a giant shuriken star that'd pierce all enemies in front of them, they could pierce enemies in front of them with a teleport-slash, they had a short flashy 4-hit melee combo attack, they could jump and then unleash a second jump midair, they could throw gold and make the gold explode!

    ^That's fucking creativity that isn't confined due to the limits of a stupid definition of what a rogue "should" be. Gameplay should be designed to be fun NOT to adhere to already established standards.

    "Rogues aren't supposed to do this and that" is a ridiculous cop-out so they won't have to come up with actual interesting stuff.

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