Female soldiers

[Deleted]

Thanks to every one who responded. I don't know what unit I'm joining. Originally I was joining the TA to give me a taste of the army before I joined the regulars but cut backs meant nyone under 18 can't join. I was going to join a TA supply unit but now when I'm 18 I think I'll go straight into the regular army and i'm not sure if I will continue with the supply unit thing. Would anyone mind posting stories of what has lost you the respect of women in the armed forces? I want to know what behaviour to avoid.

[Deleted]

hmm... I'm not sure I can still join it (age?). Plus I don't know what a MG3 is :|

The MG3 is this wonderful sexy thing



---------- Post added 2012-06-10 at 01:55 AM ----------

Thanks to every one who responded. I don't know what unit I'm joining. Originally I was joining the TA to give me a taste of the army before I joined the regulars but cut backs meant nyone under 18 can't join. I was going to join a TA supply unit but now when I'm 18 I think I'll go straight into the regular army and i'm not sure if I will continue with the supply unit thing. Would anyone mind posting stories of what has lost you the respect of women in the armed forces? I want to know what behaviour to avoid.

Ok heres a few...

Women using period pains in order to be excused from manual labour.
Getting pregnant just before a deployment meaning they stay at home instead.
Flirting with guys in the unit, causing serious friction.
Relationships with guys in the same unit (fault lies with men here too though).
Asking men to help them with a job that they cannot do themselves, usually physical. This means that we are a man down until that job is done.
Crying on the job saying the stress is too much, even though it is not stressful at that very moment.
Using lack of physical strength to get out of anything that involves back breaking labour.

My biggest gripe though is not the womans fault though. Males do not like shouting and screaming at women in the same way they do the men, this means that from day one they will always be treated better than their male counter parts. Reverse sexism at work here, I hate sexism of all kinds.

[Deleted]

Ok heres a few...

Women using period pains in order to be excused from manual labour.
Feel kinda awkward telling a man this over the internet but I don't get period pains so no worries there

Getting pregnant just before a deployment meaning they stay at home instead.
I know for a fact that I won't do that. I might sound naive but I really want to go to Afghanistan. I want to know I made a difference and I want to see a country on the other side of the world

Flirting with guys in the unit, causing serious friction.
When you say flirting, can I ask what you mean? I'm not sure if you mean really really obvious flirting or do you mean in some cases it was an unfortuntate choice of words that was interpreted wrong? See I'm unsure of how to behave as I've never been in a male dominated enviornment and I find men really hard to understand. I'l give you an example. When I was doing a practice run for the TA a boy about my age kept talking to me but I was unclear as to what he wanted and I didn't know how make it clear I had no attraction to him. Also you said this was the cause of friction...why does it cause friction?

Relationships with guys in the same unit (fault lies with men here too though).
Even though both are to blame do women end up taking all the heat or do men shoulder the blame? Please be honest.

Asking men to help them with a job that they cannot do themselves, usually physical. This means that we are a man down until that job is done.
Using lack of physical strength to get out of anything that involves back breaking labour.

In terms of the physical stuff right now I am -no joke- as weak as a kitten. However I have a year to train so I know I can improve but what would you say was better - if I am SERIOUSLY struggling should I ask someone for help or would I be better respected if I persisted and just took ages getting the job done by myself.

My biggest gripe though is not the womans fault though. Males do not like shouting and screaming at women in the same way they do the men, this means that from day one they will always be treated better than their male counter parts. Reverse sexism at work here, I hate sexism of all kinds.[/QUOTE]

I hate sexism too but I'm not sure If I can do anything about my seniors attitudes sorry. I wonder why men have difficulty with it cause women DO NOT have the same problem.

[Deleted]

Ok heres a few...

Women using period pains in order to be excused from manual labour.
Feel kinda awkward telling a man this over the internet but I don't get period pains so no worries there

Getting pregnant just before a deployment meaning they stay at home instead.
I know for a fact that I won't do that. I might sound naive but I really want to go to Afghanistan. I want to know I made a difference and I want to see a country on the other side of the world

Aghanistan is winding down now, even if you joined up tomorrow there is next to no chance of being deployed there. it's crap there anyway, good riddance to it.

Flirting with guys in the unit, causing serious friction.
When you say flirting, can I ask what you mean? I'm not sure if you mean really really obvious flirting or do you mean in some cases it was an unfortuntate choice of words that was interpreted wrong? See I'm unsure of how to behave as I've never been in a male dominated enviornment and I find men really hard to understand. I'l give you an example. When I was doing a practice run for the TA a boy about my age kept talking to me but I was unclear as to what he wanted and I didn't know how make it clear I had no attraction to him. Also you said this was the cause of friction...why does it cause friction?

Flirting as in trying to get the men to like you in a manner that leads them to believe you want more than just a friendship. Believe me, when you have 20 guys all thinking the same girl is into them it causes problems. Never have a relationship with somebody in the forces if you are also serving, you will thank me for it.

Relationships with guys in the same unit (fault lies with men here too though).
Even though both are to blame do women end up taking all the heat or do men shoulder the blame? Please be honest.

Both men and women get the blame if they let their relationship get in the way of an efficient unit, to be honest though the men are usually punished a lot harder. And if an Officer sleeps with the enlisted.....well, shit hits the fan.

Asking men to help them with a job that they cannot do themselves, usually physical. This means that we are a man down until that job is done.
Using lack of physical strength to get out of anything that involves back breaking labour.

In terms of the physical stuff right now I am -no joke- as weak as a kitten. However I have a year to train so I know I can improve but what would you say was better - if I am SERIOUSLY struggling should I ask someone for help or would I be better respected if I persisted and just took ages getting the job done by myself.

My biggest gripe though is not the womans fault though. Males do not like shouting and screaming at women in the same way they do the men, this means that from day one they will always be treated better than their male counter parts. Reverse sexism at work here, I hate sexism of all kinds.

As for your last point, women DO have a problem. A female incharge of males can really throw her weight around to prove a point. You get some fair women leaders but for some reason many are extra hard on the males to show who is in charge. A good leader should never have to prove anything.

You mentioned wanting to join Supplies. Thats the Royal Logistics corp (RLC), or the Really lazy Corp as I call them. The men need a 1.5 mile run time of 14 minutes, you can match that easily. It is a joke of a time.

[Olo]

I wonder why men have difficulty with it cause women DO NOT have the same problem.

Men tend to feel protective of women. It’s one of the reasons given against women on the “front lines”.

[Puck]

As for your last point, women DO have a problem. A female incharge of males can really throw her weight around to prove a point. You get some fair women leaders but for some reason many are extra hard on the males to show who is in charge. A good leader should never have to prove anything.

Except woman leaders do because every child is plagued with societal standards of how Woman and Men should act from the moment they're born and when something or someone breaks this norm they have doubts.

Men tend to feel protective of women. It’s one of the reasons given against women on the “front lines”.

And it's completely and totally ridiculous.

[Deleted]

Except woman leaders do because every child is plagued with societal standards of how Woman and Men should act from the moment they're and when something or someone breaks this norm they have doubts.



And it's completely and totally ridiculous.

I agree, out of all the reasons for and against women in the combat arms that is the daftest.

[Gilgemesh]

I've mentioned in a post like this before, there's also the needs female soldiers have that male soldiers do not in order to maintain health and combat readiness. Most women of combat readiness age still spend 1 week of the month in subprime condition and mental capacity. It is not their fault. But it absolutely MUST be addressed because other lives depend on everyone being 100%. Also there's the size difference. An average male in full battle rattle weighs 250 Lbs. Women can be strong enough to handle this in their own 65 Lbs of gear but its a few and far between thing, you simply cannot expect a female soldier to aid a fallen comrade quickly due to size limitations. So we have to treat her as a liability in any small group. If everyone can't do all the jobs required for the mission then the danger of a total loss is much higher. Its my personal opinion that women should not be allowed in any combat slots.

[InvictusTT]

Hey Beth,

I've been in the US Navy for 9 months so take what I say with a grain of salt, but here's my opinion:

1) You'll earn respect by doing your job well a. PT standards are a joke, but you may impress some people.

2) In general how does a woman earn respect from her male counterparts in the military? Is it hard? Does it take long?
See above. Don't be a whore. Do your job. Be respectful of both superiors AND subordinates (people tend to forget this one!). Pursue leadership positions and always look for ways to improve yourself.

3) I've noticed a lot of friendly banter between male and females but nothing offensive. We tend to respect our female counter parts here...not sure of Britain(they sound like nice people though ). All of the prejudice I've seen has been racial, religious, ethnic, or otherwise--not

4) People will joke with you but very few will mean any harm or ill will. There are bad people everywhere. Do your job and do your best to excel (you can easily out do most men if you put some effort into it). All you'll have to worry about are the haters. But they're shitbags so your superiors should easily take care of them if it becomes an issue

5) Dont really understand the question. Going to assume you mean different types of men will treat you different and the answer is yes. Good men (military wise) will respect you as one of their own if you can do your job and earn your place in the military. Others will be all over you because theyre young and hormones are raging. And some will be assholes because theyre assholes.

6) I wouldnt worry about it. There is a lot of scum in the military but they're outnumbered by good men and women. Your fellow soldiers will take care of you.

[Deleted]

Rich tell them the story of the fitness instructor that lost his leg, the military aint all glamor :P

[Deleted]

Rich tell them the story of the fitness instructor that lost his leg, the military aint all glamor :P

Never said it was, it is a dirty, grimy job. Anybody that joins for the glamour is a fool.

[Mastashake15]

I always wondered about the MG3. The MG-42 still to this day is still one of the (if not THE) fastest firing single barreled machine gun in the world, why down the speed with the MG3? The sheer intimidation from the MG-42's firing speed is enough to prevent an enemy from attacking.

[Deleted]

I always wondered about the MG3. The MG-42 still to this day is still one of the (if not THE) fastest firing single barreled machine gun in the world, why down the speed with the MG3? The sheer intimidation from the MG-42's firing speed is enough to prevent an enemy from attacking.

The rate of fire is exactly the same if you adjust the gas plug on the MG3, it can even be made to fire faster than the MG42. The faster it cycles though the quicker it eat ammo and the more likely you will get a stoppage.

[Laize]

Except woman leaders do because every child is plagued with societal standards of how Woman and Men should act from the moment they're born and when something or someone breaks this norm they have doubts.



And it's completely and totally ridiculous.

Actually it's not. The Israeli Defense Force allowed women in front line combat on an experimental basis and while they found that the women performed as expected (No notes on whether that expectation was at or below male expectations) they discovered that men in their unit were instinctively more protective and became far more aggressive and uncontrollable, severely degrading unit performance.

[Puck]

Actually it's not. The Israeli Defense Force allowed women in front line combat on an experimental basis and while they found that the women performed as expected (No notes on whether that expectation was at or below male expectations) they discovered that men in their unit were instinctively more protective and became far more aggressive and uncontrollable, severely degrading unit performance.

Solution: Train the men better.

It's hardly the Woman's fault that some men feel the need to protect them as if they were harmless little flowers.

[Reeve]

Good for morale imo.

[Laize]

Solution: Train the men better.

It's hardly the Woman's fault that some men feel the need to protect them as if they were harmless little flowers.

No, it's not women's fault and I never suggested it was.

I'm not sure it's something that can be trained away, can it? There'd need to be a whole shitload of research going into it to see what the exact cause is. If it's something as simple as men being conditioned from birth to protect women, then yeah you can train that away. If it's an instinctive brain chemical response... I think you'd need more than just training to break it.

[Kasierith]

No, it's not women's fault and I never suggested it was.

I'm not sure it's something that can be trained away, can it? There'd need to be a whole shitload of research going into it to see what the exact cause is. If it's something as simple as men being conditioned from birth to protect women, then yeah you can train that away. If it's an instinctive brain chemical response... I think you'd need more than just training to break it.

As I mentioned in the other thread.. it has to do with social forces, and with associating women with domestic roles on a subconscious levels. Its why many people, both men and women, get uncomfortable when they find out they have a male nurse, or a male teacher/babysitter for their toddler. In this situation, there's another added factor in that men are socially seen to be the providers, and a large number of men essentially learn through social forces that their role is to protect and provide for those around them, specifically women. And again, this is with a large number of people, not all people.

[semaphore]

Actually it's not. The Israeli Defense Force allowed women in front line combat on an experimental basis and while they found that the women performed as expected (No notes on whether that expectation was at or below male expectations) they discovered that men in their unit were instinctively more protective and became far more aggressive and uncontrollable, severely degrading unit performance.

Given that Israel has allowed female soldiers in combat roles as a matter of law since the turn of the century, I'd like to know what study this is? I mean it just sounds like a copy paste of a rather popular excuse for continuing discrimination.

[Deleted]

Fact: Women and men are different.
Fact: In the military all are the same.

See the conflict?
Just saying.
I wish I could offer solutions, but I believe it to be a fact, that having women in the military will always cause issues.

Edit: I do not oppose women in the military - I just want people to be aware that there will be issues.