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  1. #1

    Post Guild Policies on Gender

    In classic/TBC when I played WoW, I had a strict policy of no women in the guild. I caught flack constantly, had my guild reported on a regular basis, all because we openly stated that females were not invited to apply or join. The reasoning behind this is drama. While a woman may not be the sole cause or catalyst of drama, empirically I feel you can argue effectively that as the number of women in your guild increases so does the likelihood for drama. I know from where we were placed, that this may not have been common practice, but in the top 50 world through classic/tbc it was not uncommon.

    The question then, is have you or do you practice this? Have you encountered it, and as a male did it give you a negative interpretation of the guild? Additionally, have any of you encountered this when the guildleader was a female? Does this continue with a younger playerbase who is more homo-centric?

  2. #2
    Herald of the Titans Hanto's Avatar
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    I've always been in guilds with at least one female in it (been playing since '05). I've never had any drama over that one female, nor have they been the root cause of it. In my experience, they generally handle the game better than the guys. Sometimes outplay them as well.

    Although, I've never seen a guild forbid a female from joining. That sounds a bit extreme and, if it's for the reasons you say, your ideas are misplaced.

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral Bwaarg's Avatar
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    I was in a guild where the GM was a girl and one of the officers was a rl friend who also was a girl. I liked that guild.
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Maybe I'm just too dark for most of you.

  4. #4
    The Lightbringer Razorice's Avatar
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    I used to be the raid leader in a guild and I wouldn't accept females in my group just because most of my raiders were horny bastards who would get distracted easily...

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Hanto View Post
    I've always been in guilds with at least one female in it (been playing since '05). I've never had any drama over that one female, nor have they been the root cause of it. In my experience, they generally handle the game better than the guys. Sometimes outplay them as well.

    Although, I've never seen a guild forbid a female from joining. That sounds a bit extreme and, if it's for the reasons you say, your ideas are misplaced.
    Death and Taxes.

  6. #6
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    Question... did you automatically assume that only males would be reading this?

    Also, some of the best players that I know are females (one of them glad x5) and two of the best guilds I have been in were run by women.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by TrashTalkingMobs View Post
    Does this continue with a younger playerbase who is more homo-centric?
    Wait... what?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    Question... did you automatically assume that only males would be reading this?

    Also, some of the best players that I know are females (one of them glad x5) and two of the best guilds I have been in were run by women.
    I assumed the majority of readers would be male.

    ---------- Post added 2012-06-12 at 09:52 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvre View Post
    Wait... what?
    That was phrased poorly. I mean to say that the younger generation seems to be more interested in homosexual nature, accept it/encourage it more, and also seem to be more effeminate than masculine. I have freshmen guys in my classroom (TA for now) who wear those fuzzy cat-ear hats and act rather effeminate while still claiming to be straight.

  9. #9
    In my previous guild, I guess I can't say that women caused drama, but the officers pampering and babying them did. They got off so much easier, didn't matter if their dps was less than half of the other dps'ers, the officers came up with the most far-fetched excuses to justify keeping the women in the raids.

    In my current guild, I've only seen men cause drama. Lootwhoring, whining, etc. But yeah, mostly about loot. But those people aren't in the guild anymore.

    Wouldn't a more reasonable and sensible rule be to just not take/tolerate people that cause drama? It's not as if men can't cause it too, maybe just in a different way.

  10. #10
    I remember seeing stats years back that showed the majority of guild leaders in MMOs were female. I do not agree with the idea or the reasoning of making a male only guild. It smacks of prejudice and confirmation bias.

    I would never join or have respect for a guild with such a simple minded policy.

  11. #11
    as far as i know i've never been in a guild that openly refused female players, a few guilds i've not been very talkative in, so i suppose a few could have not had any Female members, but most have, some have had drama, some haven't, some of said drama has been caused by female players, some hasn't.

    So i guess its hard to say =p

    The worst female player experience i've had was in my first guild in which i was an officer we had a whole family of players, mother, father and 2 kids, both the parents were in the raid group, and for a while the father was an officer as well. He was very understanding, and for the most part was a good officer, but one raid he was out bidded on an item by a newer person in the guild, all fair and square, and he was (in guild chat at least) ok with it, as he'd spent his dkp earlier in the raid.

    The wife then kicked off something chronic, saying it should've gone to her fella... to the extent that she left the guild mid raid, made her kids gquit as well, the shaman at least finished the raid, apologised profusely that he had to leave as well, not that he wanted to it . . .

    was all a bit mental =/

  12. #12
    In the past I've seen players not take the guild leader/officer seriously if they were female.

    S'always a double standard. If a guy says 'alright, you fuckheads, stop screwing around and focus' he's being the assertive (yes I know that doesn't follow the real definition, but it's what people understand) guild/raid leader or officer.

    Female pulls that? "Bitch." So to avoid that, I've seen some of them walk on eggshells, politely cajoling and requesting that people do the jobs they signed up to do. Hell, I've seen the bitch-card pulled even when the screw-up in question wasn't singled out, and the reminder of what to do was phrased politely and constructively.
    Last edited by Woceip; 2012-06-12 at 01:56 PM.

  13. #13
    Stood in the Fire Psilo.'s Avatar
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    As a female officer of a raid comm. and former raidleader, I have always been the defusing element. We have only encountered one female the past 5 years whos caused any sort of 'drama' for the community. More often than not, you end up defusing conflict between male e-peen and disagreements between raiders during raids.

    New recruits never know how to approach me when they first find out Im female through Ventrilo during their first raid, how my raiders interact with me and the other females in our community set the 'bar'. Think about how YOU treat your fellow female gamer, you are in fact stating an example and it matters.

    My 2 cents.
    Last edited by Psilo.; 2012-06-12 at 02:00 PM.
    Psilo - Enhancement Shaman - Argent Dawn EU - People for the Ethical Treatment of Shamans

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  14. #14
    That's horrifyingly sexist, to be honest. "Drama llamas" know no gender, race or creed.

    I can understand a no players under 18 or 21 block; there are different talking points defined around careers and families, a more mature outlook on life, and less likely to be loot drama if the entire crowd is older. But gender?! If someone is an idiot, attention whore, or loot sponge, you /gkick them. It's as simple as that.

  15. #15
    Never had any issues because they are women but have had issues due to them being drama queens - had exactly the same problems with men, children, older people and gay people.

    I will stand up and say that I treat every single one of them the same way.

    We always have people dicking around in our guild because that's how it works - we're 8/8hc and have been for a while but the system works as everyone knows each other - sometimes it gets out of hand so you have to put your footdown and me being the raid leader it's down to me. So far I've managed (although it wasn't intentional) to make a gay man quit raiding for about a week to calm down, a late 30's swedish man, an early 30s mum, a lady who got drunk during our raids and a bunch of kids just take a step back and look at how they were behaving and how everyone else was getting pissed off with them for whatever action they were doing and how they were being disruptive enough to make our short infrequent raids plain awful for the rest of us - what they were doing was fine outside of raids but during a raid... just no. The drunk lady told her boyfriend how I had stood up to her and he was shocked how an A level student had the balls to do something he couldn't.

    Gender is irrelevent, behaviour is where it's at. My guild has ranging from 3-6 women in each 10man raid and seems to do fine. Never seen a "no girls allowed" thing on a guild but have seen (although not since TBC) "British people only" which caused no controversy.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesus View Post
    In my previous guild, I guess I can't say that women caused drama, but the officers pampering and babying them did. They got off so much easier, didn't matter if their dps was less than half of the other dps'ers, the officers came up with the most far-fetched excuses to justify keeping the women in the raids.

    In my current guild, I've only seen men cause drama. Lootwhoring, whining, etc. But yeah, mostly about loot. But those people aren't in the guild anymore.

    Wouldn't a more reasonable and sensible rule be to just not take/tolerate people that cause drama? It's not as if men can't cause it too, maybe just in a different way.
    It would be, absolutely. However, we fielded roughly 20-50 applicants a week depending on the content, and I didn't have time to interview them all or read their applications so gender sorting helped file that down by 5-10 each week.

  17. #17
    I'm actually having an awesome time picturing a "No Girls Allowed" guild. It's the adult version of a little boy's tree fort. And, appropriately enough, it is most likely filled with manchildren.

  18. #18
    Mechagnome
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    Gender don't matter, start drama = fuck off!
    Both males and females 'cause it, my policy goes let them join. If they are the 'cause of too much drama, give them the kick.

  19. #19
    High Overlord Kittylicious's Avatar
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    Oh a gender thread again! How fun! -.-

  20. #20
    Always had some female in a guild. You know, when you don't see her in person and it's not your dick but your brain judging and talking, I gotta say they were all definitely not people I'd keep as friends if I had a choice. They're either incredible bitches, stupid, bad players, whiny, attention whores or sluts. Or ugly. Quite often a combination of few of these points. I prefer to play mmo's more casually now, if I can't get at least very top pvp gear available in game absolutely solo, then I quit fast, but IF I was still hardcore as I used to be in tbc/wotlk times, I'd prefer a no-females guild too. They're crazy. In one way or another, they're crazy. Clearly intellectually inferior to men, often terrible temper, mood swings, highly unreliable, I can't even describe it all. So as I said, when it's not my dick that's talking -- yeah I'd prefer to keep them away from my guild/game. Men are often stupid too but it's more of an "immature" stupid, rather than "really stupid".

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