He knows when cleaving needs to be done, something Thrall has been until potentially recently completely avoiding, and unlike Garrosh he is well aware of when diplomacy and decency need to be had.
The point I make is that to make Orcs just like humans as a race ruins any unique values they held. The idea that Thrall was raised by humans and thus has a different view of the world is what makes him interesting. But, made him a bad leader after the basic tenets of the Horde were put down. In fact, one could say during Varians bipolar mania he was more like an Orc due to the gladiatorial pit fighting fun times.
Edit: I should also stress that during WoW's timeline racial identities have been butchered and most major lore figures are relatively poorly written and are two dimensional at best.
Consider this, what do you consider to be the epitome of what makes a human in warcraft? Who in warcraft lore is the definition of a human? Varian? Tirion? Jaina? Lothar? Medivh? All these characters are different in there characters and there is no definition of what defines them as a human in the warcraft lore, other then just having the label human slapped on them.
You assume because there are some orcs who are warmongering marauders, THAT must then be what all orcs should be like, to you. This pitiful when someone can't figure out that there are many examples of what makes characters what they are and assumes one single stereotype, putting such characters in a box.
I'm gay, should that be assumed I'm like every other gay man in your view of what makes them that? That every gay man is the same julian clary or elton john clone?
Characters who are defining in warcraft story represent the best and worst of there own race. Saying rubbish like 'oh Thrall or Eitrigg aren't orcs because they don't fit my limited view of what I think orcs should be like' is ridiculous. If anything, it makes the characters more intresting when they pull away from there stereotype you assume them to be and proves it goes beyond that perspective.
Thrall more so then Eitrigg is a terrible example of an orc, as he should be. He wasn't raised by his own culture, he didn't learn about his race until his teens. By then social ideas from humans made him who he is, that is why he was an interesting character, because being apart of his own race was a culture shock.
Then as WoW kicked in, we see Thrall being a terrible leader, he did NOTHING, he settled the Orcs in Durotar, which was a terrible idea, than he became complacent and stagnated. If he showed more iconic elements of his race earlier, things could of been different, and hell, a lot of the misery and sorrow now taking place could of been avoided. Thrall, being raised by humans is both a blessing and a curse. You all keep saying "oh lol human argument" but no, that is exactly what it is, he was gifted the ability to connect with the group that generally wants his race removed from existence. But instead of using his position he squanders it, and instead of sticking around when he is needed most to advise the most ill fated choice possible for Warchief (from a player perspective, keep in mind the general notion that non players love Garrosh for the most part outside of key npc figures).
Thralls entire character makes a phenomenal advisor to someone who is mighty but short sighted because of his mixed raising. The whole quest when you need to merge his fragment souls goes into depth on how he wasn't being truly himself, and my HOPES are that after that ordeal he will come back superior, and more fit to be an Orc and a leader, instead of a character who sat on his laurels hoping peace would come to him.
Edit: The entire point i make is Thrall is NOT a good example of what an Orc is, but that is why he is such a potentially important and amazing character, is because he isn't trapped in his need to glorify his race, but instead is willing to work for a better tomorrow for everyone.
Last edited by Aisriyth; 2012-12-27 at 04:27 PM.
We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"
Last edited by Lostwood; 2012-12-27 at 07:50 PM.
Whatever it takes to get less Metzen voice acting I'm OK with. I guess this means Garrosh can kill Varian and Thrall. I'm ok with that. Down with Metzen.
Less of Metzen's pets is a good thing.
Same applied to every race in wow, you think races in a box, as only having one type of personality, so you can't imagine a character being any different to that stereotype.
---------- Post added 2012-12-27 at 08:51 PM ----------
you want to know the architypes of all orcs? Have a read of this:
And outside of even these archetypes are ones further reaching. You have constrained your idealism of what an orc is to one type only, making belief that 'Thrall was raised by humans so he isn't an orc' just as weak a statement as it can get.The Doomhammer Archetype
The natural born leader of the orcish people, these orcs most always rise through the ranks to become high ranking raiders and strategists. This breed of orc would sooner give his life then see his fellow orc fall in battle. They are more combative then the Thrall personality, seeking to personally end the corruption of their people by force. While unsure of Undead and blood elf allies, they remain calm and collected and keep their contempt for their new allies to themselves; most respect their leaders too much to speak out. However, they are not as pig-headed as the Grom archetype and believe that no matter the race everyone has the chance to be honorable.
The Thrall Archetype
This brand of orc is more diplomatic and understanding then any other orcish personality. They refuse to give into the racism and fear-mongering that brought their race into demonic corruption in the first place. They also refuse to believe that peace is unattainable and seek a day when the orcish people can finally have peace in their new home of Kalimdor. They are more likely to embrace their new allies, believing that there is good in any race. Some of this archetype are gullible, others are very keen-minded; either way, this brand of orc is a product of the new generation born on Azeroth.
The Grom Archetype
The most pig-headed, hard-headed, brash archetype of orc, they are ripe for corruption despite the good nature of some of them. They are the first to voice their disagreement with something, and the first to resort to violence. They are short sighted, short tempered, distrust their new allies and do little to hide this fact. Usually when an orc has this attitude, they're either big enough to back it up, or they don't live long.
The Gul'dan Archetype
No sentient race is above corruption, and the orcs are obviously no exception to this rule. Those of the Gul'dan archetype are corrupters and manipulators. They appear like a civilized orc on the surface, though most are below average physically and don't seem to merit much threat. However, their true threat is their keen intellect that can easily outwit and manipulate others to their cause.
Last edited by Trassk; 2012-12-27 at 08:55 PM.
If Garrosh kills Thrall I'm signing up with the new horde.
But no seriously, if he does I'd be stoked, it would give him the malicious and epic feel he needs so badly. All he's got going for him now is his booming speech voice and his toxic personality, face it, he's pretty much an idiot beyond that. I'm pulling for Garrosh to do something huge, like KILL the Sha, with his own massive ego and then eat it and become a freak old god mega orc.
Naftc, "Hunters are the cheapest class in game and when played right are more deadly than a train plowing through a field of bunnies covered in napalm"
Well we've already started the purge of Mary Sues in the form of Rhonin's death....why not Thrall.
Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.- Thucydides
There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.- Eugen Weber
I think it's a fantastic idea. If only because it's the kind of unpredictable shake the storyline needs to have. I've always
looked at the Horde as a barbarian/Star Trek's Klingon culture, where strength and honor means everything. So the role
of warchief would be constantly changing based on who believed they would be more suitable at leading the Horde as a
Garrosh killing Thrall would mark the end of the peace attempts. That the only way for there to be peace is through
total victory of the war. For a game named "WAR-craft", this needs to be firmly hammered in, much like how the tagline,
"in the future, there is only war" for the Warhammer 40k series.
Of course, if such a thing were to happen, it would need quite the good story-telling and build-up. And of course, a very
VERY good reason for Garrosh to actually succeed in killing the world's most powerful Shaman...
I also disagree with the "World of WAR -craft" mentality. Just because war is in the title doesn't mean this specific war needs to drag out at its current pace for the game's entire lifespan. We have our 'horde vs alliance' expansion now, I doubt the war will continue at its current level moving into the next expansion, when we'll have another WAR to focus on.
a central figurehead to take over (this is assuming that after the event itself that a new warchief isn't crowned immediately after),
the Horde would begin to buckle. Yes each faction has a leader, but these individual leaders don't command the entirety of the Horde.
There's no reason the Kalimdor races would listen to Sylvannas, or the BE leader. And without the Horde's support, Sylvannas would
grow more desperate for reinforcements, and so on and so forth.
With their enemies bearing down on them, and their moral dwindling, it would be the time to restore pride/strength/honor in their ability
to fight against their now stronger enemy. Yeah not through mindless barbarism, but someone who will have a never give up/never
surrender Conan-esque mentality. So peace is definitely out of the question.