please help our rogue's DpS

[Deleted]

Hi there,

i'm not 100% in rogues business, so i'm hoping for some help i could give our rogue Kaleel
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...aleel/advanced
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/e...um/damageDone/

What i see:
Char:
Orange gems in red sockets, pure hastegems -> not good
Reforging seems ok
Glyphs should be ok, what about talents?

Actions:
- only one ToT (afaik with 2T13 you should use ToT on cooldown? )
- only one Tol'vir
- no KillingSpree (or is there a risk of dying @ultraxion? )
- only 82% SnD-uptime
- 34 Revealing Strikes with 32 evis seems wrong

Please note that other dps (esp. Moonkin and Shadow) are 2nd-spec Chars wich were forced to play DpS tonight - don't flame them

Thank you in advance

[Deleted]

I play a rogue alt but for the sake of coming here and seeing no comments ill tell you what i know from when i was researching it bout a month ago to the best of my abilities =]
he seems to be gemming for no matter what stat bonus it gives, this leads me to believe he doesn't realize you can put any colour gem in any socket. For using rare gems , not sure epic gems sorry, if the socket bonus is 20 agility or more its worth socketing for the bonus. if yellow socket with 20 agi 20 haste and if blue socket with 20 agi 20 hit, to the best of my knowledge this follows for epic gems also.
this is probably the most optimum and cookie cutter combat spec: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/tool/tal...d!aj!acfjQPmnK
points of interest for dps talents : needs to take a point out of lethality and and put it in Ruthlessness
He should have near 100% SnD uptime , but on ultrax with the fight mechanics id say anything lower than 94% is wrong.
Killingspree can be used on ultrax, and should be
Does he realize its best to use your cooldowns under the effect of bandits guile?
revealing strike should ONLY be used at 4 combo points (and is optimum to do so) and then evis but it seems as if he sometimes builds up 5 combo points and then revealing strike, this is wrong.
IIRC ToT should be used on cooldown with that set
one thing to note, for fights like ultrax it's about a 1% dps gain to acctually use rupture aswell as evis but i wouldn't mention that too him as he needs to get the basics first
hope this helped and wish i could have done more, good luck!

oh and his glyphs are fine

[Droogskull]

From what I am seeing he needs to work on CD management and SnD uptime. Also his gemming is incorrect. Agi in red, Agi/Haste in yellow, Agi/hit in blue. He should never gem crit at all what so ever. Have him check out http://shadowcraft.mmo-mumble.com/ to help with his reforges.

[Deleted]

Do you have an English version of that log by any chance? I can't read that.

The gemming needs some work, pretty much exactly like you said. His spec and glyphs are fine.
Tricks should indeed be used on cooldown unless you are under the effect of Adrenaline Rush or Killing Spree. But timing that really shouldn't be an issue.
There is no risk involved in using Killing Spree on Ultraxion at all. You get teleported to a spot roughly in the middle-ish of the platform.
Slice and Dice uptime needs work, 98%+ on a fight like Ultraxion really isn't much to ask for. Although bear in mind that Ultraxion is a bit buggy when it comes to uptimes on logs.
No idea what's going on with those Revealing Strike VS Eviscerate numbers. Getting more Eviscerates instead of Revealing Strikes will happen in almost every log -especially with the legendaries- but not the other way around. He's either doing something wrong or is the most unlucky Rogue in the universe and is still doing something wrong.

Anyway, bleh foreign Ultraxion log. I'm just basing all of this off of your post. You don't have a more reliable log in English?

[Deleted]

I'm not sure what you guys are talking about; His spec is not fine.

Looking at the Assassination tree: He has 3/3 in Coup De Grace and only 1/3 in Ruthlessness. He should have 2/3 in both of those. The loss of one point in Ruthlessness was a rather large dps loss last time I checked.

[Droogskull]

I'm not sure what you guys are talking about; His spec is not fine.

Looking at the Assassination tree: He has 3/3 in Coup De Grace and only 1/3 in Ruthlessness. He should have 2/3 in both of those. The loss of one point in Ruthlessness was a rather large dps loss last time I checked.

You're right, If anything he should have dropped a point in lethality to pick up the extra point in coup de grace while keeping both points in ruthlessness.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure what you guys are talking about; His spec is not fine.

Looking at the Assassination tree: He has 3/3 in Coup De Grace and only 1/3 in Ruthlessness. He should have 2/3 in both of those. The loss of one point in Ruthlessness was a rather large dps loss last time I checked.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lent/secondary

The difference between what he (and I for that matter) has and what you are suggesting is under 100 DPS. In return, you get more damage in any situation where you can cleave with Blade Flurry for just a few seconds. Fights like heroic Blackhorn benefit from the spec he has for example as well as many other fights.

Out of all the logs I ever made I never managed to find a clear difference between my spec and the spec you are suggesting.

[Deleted]

You don't even need our help OP. You already figured most out by yourself.

- Him not using TotT is a dps loss for him AND a raid member, make sure he does it.
- Sinister Strike to 4 CBP, Revealing Strike and finish with an Eviscerate. Do not use Revealing Strike when already on 5 CBP (possible because of the SS Glyph) or when you are using S&D.
- S&D uptime is horrible. It's a big dps loss.
- For most damage out of a single AR it's best to pop it when you have 1 point in the green stage of Bandits Guile.
- This would be the spec + glyphs he wants http://www.wowhead.com/talent#fMGZfGccocbRGo0h0kzormcV
- Red socket -> Delicate, yellow socket -> Deft (orange), blue socket -> Glinting (purple)
- Use Killing Spree, it's stupid not to.
- Ultraxion is by far the easiest fight to prepot, because it comes with an engage timer.
- Let him use Shadowcraft or even download ReforgeLite to do his reforges in the future, makes it a lot easier.

The most shocking part about this is that this is all 'basic' Combat Rogue info. If he only did the slightest bit of research he would know. It's probably the easiest spec to play and yet manages to screw it up this bad. If he has a hard time mastering the Combat Rogue rotation you may want to think about getting a new Rogue.

[Shuya82]

Are they RS'ing before every Evis or just at 4 CP? Those stats make it look like they are doing it every time which would not be good.

[Deleted]

Just throwing it out there that it's still an Ultraxion log. On my raid leader's logs it usually showed my Slice and Dice uptime to be around 70%, while on my own logs it would show 99%+. On his logs it would also never show me using a potion twice even though I always used two per fight. These are just a few examples.

Honestly Ultraxion logs are always going to show bad results unless the person who logged the log was the Rogue himself.

[Stuffs]

Honestly Ultraxion logs are always going to show bad results unless the person who logged the log was the Rogue himself.

ding ding

Is there any chance you could have this guy in particular load the logs himself? Or do an LFR ultraxion and just face tank every blast.
Phasing in and out makes buff uptimes wonky on WoL

The other more basic stuff like no KS, TotT and gemming have already been covered so I won't touch on that.

[Tahirii]

Just throwing it out there that it's still an Ultraxion log. On my raid leader's logs it usually showed my Slice and Dice uptime to be around 70%, while on my own logs it would show 99%+. On his logs it would also never show me using a potion twice even though I always used two per fight. These are just a few examples.

Honestly Ultraxion logs are always going to show bad results unless the person who logged the log was the Rogue himself.

This is true, but looking a little closer can usually account for those problems, like when a log only shows 1 potion it will have an uptime of like 45 sec or something, this log has exactly 25 sec uptime. SnD is harder to judge but looking at the graph it seems like he lets it drop then takes a second or two to reapply it.

I agree with giving people the benefit of the doubt on Ultra logs due to the phasing bugs but it still looks like this rogue needs some work.

I also agree with you earlier about the language of the log but I found that mousing over the abilities would still give me the tooltips in English.

[Avengerx]

-
- Sinister Strike to 4 CBP, Revealing Strike and finish with an Eviscerate. Do not use Revealing Strike when already on 5 CBP (possible because of the SS Glyph) or when you are using S&D.

I was under the impression that using RS at 4 cp then using Snd can be a dps increase?

[Infs]

I was under the impression that using RS at 4 cp then using Snd can be a dps increase?

Well no, because RvS doesn't affect SnD

[Pikapika]

Well no, because RvS doesn't affect SnD

Doesn't matter, if you get a glyph of SS proc on your next set of combo points that brings you from 3 to 5 the RvS is an increase, and if you don't nothing is lost.

[Deleted]

Doesn't matter, if you get a glyph of SS proc on your next set of combo points that brings you from 3 to 5 the RvS is an increase, and if you don't nothing is lost.

...what? Am I the only one confused?! o.O

[Pikapika]

SS to 4 points
RvS to 5 points
SnD to 0 points
SS to 3 points
SS glyph procs to 5 points
RvS debuff is still applied, eviscerate
Even if the glyph didn't proc going from 3 to 5, finishing out with the 5th point on SS if the glyph doesn't proc doesn't lose you anything.

[Deleted]

Doesn't matter, if you get a glyph of SS proc on your next set of combo points that brings you from 3 to 5 the RvS is an increase, and if you don't nothing is lost.

I don't get it how Glyph of Sinister Strike could have anything to do with using or not using Revealing Strike before Slice and Dice.

EDIT: I didn't update the site so I missed your last comment where you explained it, but doesn't you in most cases lose dps to use RvS for SnD since the glyph is only 20%? You said that nothing is lost, but you lose one SS for a RvS that's useless.

[Pikapika]

I don't get it how Glyph of Sinister Strike could have anything to do with using or not using Revealing Strike before Slice and Dice.

EDIT: I didn't update the site so I missed your last comment where you explained it, but doesn't you in most cases lose dps to use RvS for SnD since the glyph is only 20%? You said that nothing is lost, but you lose one SS for a RvS that's useless.

The rvs isn't useless, it buffs your next eviscerate. And even if glyph of SS doesn't proc, you don't lose anything, you just do another SS to get to 5 points and eviscerate.

[Kelticfox]

What i see:
Char:
Orange gems in red sockets, pure hastegems -> not good
Reforging seems ok
Glyphs should be ok, what about talents?

Actions:
- only one ToT (afaik with 2T13 you should use ToT on cooldown? )
- only one Tol'vir
- no KillingSpree (or is there a risk of dying @ultraxion? )
- only 82% SnD-uptime
- 34 Revealing Strikes with 32 evis seems wrong
e

1: You are correct, ToTT on CD with T13.

2: If he can use 2, then he/she should be using 2, but often 1 pot occurs due to bad communications from tank (we use a countdown and I pop mine with TotT at 2 second count down (Tank then pulls)). Although it could be said that ToTT during AR/Heroism is bad, I ToTT the highest DPS for the 10% dmg increase (which is more beneficial during Heroism)

3: There are 2 camps here:
Camp A: KS on CD
Camp B: KS on Deep Insight
Either way KS always. On Ultraxion you don't teleport behind, you teleport in front allowing it to be used. KS on Deep Insight allows a very small margin of DPS increase.

4: 82% SnD Uptime is something that highlights something going wrong. Something he/she needs to work on.

5: 34 RS with 32 Evis seems they are using RS with another finisher. If he was using RS at 5 then Evis the RS/Evis count should be the same.

6. Gems: Agility in Red Socket, Agility/Haste in Yellow Socket, Agility in Blue Socket (unless you need hit for some reason then Agil/Hit), Agility in Prismatic Socket.