Last edited by Kraeth; 2012-09-13 at 08:42 PM.
I tried to do it with my paladin, thinking that Ardent Defender would work like Purgatory. (I've been killing Mandokir on my DK for a few days now and thought hey, let's give it a try with another class)
Well, it surely doesn't work the same way. Ardent Defender doesn't absorb the excess damage, it completely negates it. What it means is that a decapite while being under the effects of AD will result in you taking X damage (where X is your health) and no overkill damage. (So no vengeance...)
I know it's not about DKs but still, the topic is still kinda hot so I thought I would add this.
Don't want to explain it all, but the overkill damage absorbed by Purgatory actually doesn't generate vengeance at all. Purgatory just allows you to survive the damage you couldn't mitigate through defensive cooldowns and heal back up.
If you don't believe me, try not using defensive cooldowns, and watch as your Vengeance barely goes up even after absorbing everything into Purgatory
Last edited by Mionelol; 2012-09-13 at 09:06 PM.
Vengeance only raise as you take damage. Purgatory let's you live through damage while Ardent Defender negates the damage. (It's like it never happened, so vengeance can't go very high since there's almost no damage done.) I understand you can push the limit further by reducing damage, so the damage portion that doesn't happen is lower and the portion that you actually take is higher, but it's not working the same way as Purgatory, and there's no way you'll ever reach as much vengeance with AD. (Probably never enough to solo Mandokir at 85.)
I'll have to try this but I believe it doesn't really matter how much you manage to reduce damage, because vengeance is calculated before every form of mitigation, passive or active. Since Purgatory takes everything into consideration you should always get the same amount of vengeance. It certainly doesn't only count the portion of damage you take pre-overkill, because my vengeance jumped to 1m+ last time I checked.
Unless I'm missing something.
It's counter intuitive, but believe me.
The formula for damage taken looks around the lines of , with n being the amount of defensive cooldowns/passives/whatever that you have. That result is then used futher into the Vengeance calculation.
It doesn't use the actual unmitigated damage, but instead tries to reverse engineer it using said formula. The overkill damage absorbed by purgatory doesn't matter at all, since it'll take the minimum beween damage taken and your maximum health.
Basically, any damage you take in reality that exceeds your maximum health won't generate Vengeance, and the maximum Vengeance you can achieve is based on the theoretical amount of damage you could sustain at max health with every single defensive cooldown up. Thus, the more defensive cooldowns you use, the more Vengeance you get.
And this is the mathy explanation I've been avoiding to do for so long :P
Last edited by Mionelol; 2012-09-13 at 10:04 PM.
Lord Marrowgar keeps getting me with bone spike while in there solo on 25man heroic. Happens near the end of bonestorm every try.
This is both with and without a spider MCed for the extra healing.
I assume this is due to the same change that gets us MCed in TK while solo?
Either bloodworms are counting as extra targets again, now that they removed talent specs and we can't choose to opt out of them, or they removed what ever was stopping bosses from MCing and Bone Spiking us while solo.
(what i'm talking about with bloodworms is you used to have to spec out of them to solo the old ZG final boss, because if you speced into them it was something else he could target and you would get MCed.. I don't know if they stopped that and restarted it again or if it's something else going on)
Anyway, if im missing some vital piece of the puzzle please let me know..
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in laymans terms it means like this:
No cooldowns, you have 200k hp, you get hit for 1m. You get vengeance for the 200k, overkill 800k.
You use IBF, you get hit for 500k, you get vengeance for 400k since you used IBF.
You use IBF and DRW, you get hit for 300k (cba to do the math), 100k overkill, you get vengeance for 600k.
Overkill is ignored, correct?
Also, is Blood Shield handled as a fixed amount no matter how many cd's you have up?
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Last edited by Mionelol; 2012-09-14 at 12:02 AM.
For those having a hard time killing Kael'Thas as FROST, switch oblit with death strike. Makes it a walk in the park, at 100% hp close to all the time.
Was struggling abit with frost on my 4th(and lowest ilvl) dk alt sub 390 ilvl and 378 weapon, and this made the kill really easy.
At higher ilvl it's just a faceroll anyways. Used AMZ and death siphon aswell.
Just a tip for those who are struggling.
Kael only MC if you get an add and you get disoriented when you dissapear from aggro table for a moment. Same with Gurthrogg and his Fel Rage for example. Marrowgar never disorients you, so you're always his main target - he should not use bonespiek on you. If he did - I'd ticket it since it;s clrearly a bug ( and 5.0.4 patch did broke few mechanics, like Kara Chess for ex)
No reason it would not work, Vengeance didn't have any change recently.
On a totally unrelated note: . lolo
Yes Mandokir still works.i tested him this morning.832 k absorbed by purgatory 550 k healing from death siphon!