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  1. #621
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    And who considers TOR raid focused game anyway. In my mind it is story driven MMO. Raids are pretty suboptimal way to deliver that.
    All the people who raid 3 different encounters with varying difficulty levels on multiple characters every week. Not to mention everyone who came to this game from any other MMO. If you don't think raids are a way to deliver a story, you should try reading the intro quests that send you there and then extrapolate that on to the experience you have completing it.

    Each dungeon/fp/raid/op has a reason for people to be there. Even a game where all you do is kill things and smash objects for loot with *seemingly* no motive has to be framed with a story, regardless of whether you think it is weak or not.
    BAD WOLF

  2. #622
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    And that is one reason P2P is good, there is no need to alienate any part of your customer base, it doesn't matter if you are a hardcore role player, a hardcore raider or anything in between content is created as a whole, or at least is if it's done right. This pick and choose, only developing for the majority and so on will eventually just kill F2P or theme park MMOs altogether, and yes I know it works right now and all those arguments, the fact that people like free stuff remains though and the more free stuff they get the more they will want, I would say Piratebay is evidence of that if anything.
    Who does the p2p right ? Pretty sure it's not BW or Blizzard. The price/content updates ratio in both games is hilariously low for non-raiders. And it's not about getting free stuff imho ... it's about getting good service for your money. Be it from MMO that is p2p, b2p, f2p with vanity stuff or otherwise funded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    All the people who raid 3 different encounters with varying difficulty levels on multiple characters every week. Not to mention everyone who came to this game from any other MMO. If you don't think raids are a way to deliver a story, you should try reading the intro quests that send you there and then extrapolate that on to the experience you have completing it.

    Each dungeon/fp/raid/op has a reason for people to be there. Even a game where all you do is kill things and smash objects for loot with *seemingly* no motive has to be framed with a story, regardless of whether you think it is weak or not.
    I know that there can be stories behind raids, I welcome them. Is it the best way to deliver continuing story ? I don't think so. And if TOR raiding is widely popular by all means BW should start dishing out raid after raid. But if it is some 1/9 split between raiders and non raiders maybe spending half the development budget on raid creation is not the best idea to go by.

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  3. #623
    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    Who does the p2p right ? Pretty sure it's not BW or Blizzard. The price/content updates ratio in both games is hilariously low for non-raiders. And it's not about getting free stuff imho ... it's about getting good service for your money. Be it from MMO that is p2p, b2p, f2p with vanity stuff or otherwise funded.
    Rift comes to mind, the price/content ratio for everyone is hilariously low in most other games, not just for raiders, or do you consider 9 months of DS to be more content than 3 dungeons, daily quests and what not. I never said it was about getting free stuff as a concept, people like to get free shit though and when they see that they can get free shit they want more of it and as long as some one is willing to give more free stuff than the next guy it will get harder and harder to run a working business based on that model, especially when the market becomes more and more saturated.

    This is the basis of my theory that F2P will eventually fail, might not be today nor the next couple of years but eventually F2P as we know it today won't work as people love free if it's available, again Piratebay was very small and used mostly by people in the know, attention the entertainment industry gave them made them grow for every time they made headlines through lawsuits and such, once people started getting free stuff through them they didn't stop, something proven time and time again as people bypass obstacles put on them in form of internet censorship.
    Last edited by Redblade; 2012-08-16 at 05:55 PM.
    Active PoE: @MajorAsshole EvE: Redblade (Reikoku)
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  4. #624
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    This is the basis of my theory that F2P will eventually fail, might not be today nor the next couple of years but eventually F2P as we know it today won't work as people love free if it's available, again Piratebay was very small and used mostly by people in the know, attention the entertainment industry gave them made them grow for every time they made headlines through lawsuits and such, once people started getting free stuff through them they didn't stop, something proven time and time again as people bypass obstacles put on them in form of internet censorship.
    I think Valve has a pretty good opinion on how to fight piracy and f2p is similar in that regard. It's almost always matter of quality of service, not pricing. We can all agree that p2p when done right is good enough MMO model, but the issue is almost nobody is doing it right. I do expect that to change in the future however and I can imagine very easy steps for TOR to become atractive p2p title from my perspective.

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  5. #625
    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    It's almost always matter of quality of service, not pricing.
    Exactly, I doubt the $15 is an issue for all that many people, at least not that many that you would like as players anyway, freeloaders don't help you much more than to fill the world with people and if you need that your game has issues no matter payment method.

    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    We can all agree that p2p when done right is good enough MMO model, but the issue is almost nobody is doing it right. I do expect that to change in the future however and I can imagine very easy steps for TOR to become atractive p2p title from my perspective.
    I think the whole F2P model that everyone is promoting right now needs to crash and burn first, then we might see a return of P2P but done right as the demands of the customer will be larger, currently you have way to many players either defending companies lack of quality with "they are a company that needs to make money" without realizing how much they actually make or by promoting a switch to F2P because they simply don't want to pay any more, free shit is nice and all that.
    Active PoE: @MajorAsshole EvE: Redblade (Reikoku)
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  6. #626
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    I think the whole F2P model that everyone is promoting right now needs to crash and burn first, then we might see a return of P2P but done right as the demands of the customer will be larger, currently you have way to many players either defending companies lack of quality with "they are a company that needs to make money" without realizing how much they actually make or by promoting a switch to F2P because they simply don't want to pay any more, free shit is nice and all that.
    I think once the market is flooded with F2P, you might see a small surge of B2P games. Companies are seeing larger revenue streams from subs and pure F2P right now. B2P runs a very high risk of making almost no money other than box sales. It also would open the door for more P2W items than pure cosmetic.

    Once F2P is even more prevalent than now, it will allow a couple of pioneers to champion/advertise B2P as being 'different' in order to capture players sick of subs and f2p.

    edit:
    after rereading my post, I have the strange urge to go to the bathroom
    Last edited by Kelimbror; 2012-08-16 at 08:26 PM.

  7. #627
    Let TOR die already
    It's painful to watch.
    (Incoming Activision EA, by the way)

    [Infracted]
    Last edited by Azuri; 2012-08-16 at 08:21 PM.

  8. #628
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    I think the whole F2P model that everyone is promoting right now needs to crash and burn first, then we might see a return of P2P but done right as the demands of the customer will be larger, currently you have way to many players either defending companies lack of quality with "they are a company that needs to make money" without realizing how much they actually make or by promoting a switch to F2P because they simply don't want to pay any more, free shit is nice and all that.
    I am not sure ... so far demand for p2p only leaded to developer lethargy. I can imagine development f2p->b2p->p2p with monthly service as realistic.
    Last edited by Repefe; 2012-08-16 at 08:24 PM.

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  9. #629
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    I think once the market is flooded with F2P, you might see a small surge of B2P games. Companies are seeing larger revenue streams from subs and pure F2P right now. B2P runs a very high risk of making almost no money other than box sales. It also would open the door for more P2W items than pure cosmetic.

    Once F2P is even more prevalent than now, it will allow a couple of pioneers to champion/advertise B2P as being 'different' in order to capture players sick of subs and f2p.

    edit:
    after rereading my post, I have the strange urge to go to the bathroom
    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    I am not sure ... so far demand for p2p only leaded to developer lethargy. I can imagine development f2p->b2p->p2p with monthly service as realistic.
    I wouldn't exclude either scenario to be honest, what I'm fairly certain of is that while F2P is popular now and seem successful I just don't see it lasting, humans are fairly predictable, we are lazy by nature but hard working and inventive if need be, same as we like free shit and will go out of our way to keep getting it for free once we had it, and the F2P model only supports so many free players compared to paying once. At the end of the day I still see P2P as the better system but it requires the customers to be demanding and expect quality and quantity for their money, something I see coming from a F2P collapse.
    Active PoE: @MajorAsshole EvE: Redblade (Reikoku)
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  10. #630
    I am honestly holding out a fools hope that f2p doesn't outright destroy the game. Though I am imagining that they will start selling character slots with their store, which makes me sad.

  11. #631
    *snip*

    Such rude and vulgar language isn't allowed on the forums. ~Rag
    Last edited by Ragnarocket; 2012-08-17 at 01:54 PM.

  12. #632
    I plan to play again once its f2p and if for some reason I fall in love with it again I'll end up subscribing. I think the game will be much more enjoyable when I'm f2p because I'll feel like I don't have any say in what the devs do, where as when I was in beta and a subscriber and I would try to say something, get over 1,000 views and over 100 posts and not a reponse from a dev...thats just irritating...

  13. #633
    I'm fine with F2P so that my little bro's can come play with me in this game. For me, I'll stay sub til the Cash Shop shows up, I'd rather pay a sub than to buy all the content, which can be a bit more expensive than paying a sub but who know. I'm just crossing fingers now.

  14. #634
    I plan to play again once its f2p and if for some reason I fall in love with it again I'll end up subscribing. I think the game will be much more enjoyable when I'm f2p because I'll feel like I don't have any say in what the devs do, where as when I was in beta and a subscriber and I would try to say something, get over 1,000 views and over 100 posts and not a reponse from a dev...thats just irritating...with f2p I'll at least feel like its not really my game and that the devs don't have to listen to some f2p player (even though they don't listen to subscribers)

  15. #635
    Quote Originally Posted by 12davargo View Post
    I plan to play again once its f2p and if for some reason I fall in love with it again I'll end up subscribing. I think the game will be much more enjoyable when I'm f2p because I'll feel like I don't have any say in what the devs do, where as when I was in beta and a subscriber and I would try to say something, get over 1,000 views and over 100 posts and not a reponse from a dev...thats just irritating...with f2p I'll at least feel like its not really my game and that the devs don't have to listen to some f2p player (even though they don't listen to subscribers)
    experienced that too, took quite a while to have 1 bug issue fixed. i'm still subbed at the moment though, plan to get geared well before F2P comes out so I can choose if I'll stay F2P or Sub.

  16. #636
    Has there been new info on either a date for F2P going live or changes/specs of what is and isn't available? Initially they said Flashpoints and Warzones would be available but limited to a # of runs per week.

    I like the game, had tried Beta and bought late winter, subbed 2 mo.'s but quit due to time and game performance issues. I'd love to at least get the chance to complete some class story lines since I bought the game and all...

  17. #637

  18. #638
    Quote Originally Posted by Qatol View Post
    I like the game, had tried Beta and bought late winter, subbed 2 mo.'s but quit due to time and game performance issues. I'd love to at least get the chance to complete some class story lines since I bought the game and all...
    Yeah ... some of the stories are woth finishing and worth the inital price of the game, so that is good from f2p pov.

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  19. #639
    Quote Originally Posted by Tazkar View Post
    I am honestly holding out a fools hope that f2p doesn't outright destroy the game. Though I am imagining that they will start selling character slots with their store, which makes me sad.
    It won't outright destroy the game right away. They stand a fair chance at making good money for a bit with the change in payment model

    Of course, once the initial "boom" wears off, SWTOR will be right back where it was (or is right now), and the lack of subscriptions will mean it won't be a viable product for as long as it could have been with a sub model. So free to play will likely hasten the "destruction", as you put it, of the game, but it won't be immediate. I think this is EA/BioWare's best chance at making what money they can off of SWTOR at this point, given their lack of success with the subscription model

    There are also free to play games which actually generate quite a healthy cash flow, as well, so there's always a chance that might happen. Switching free to play has actually saved a couple games from complete death in the past, and there are games that were always free to play with microtransactions (even without being pay to win, or just a little bit of pay to win like League of Legends). Just not likely to happen with SWTOR
    Rest In Peace, World of Warcraft. Subscriber count doesn't matter, WoW has been dead in spirit for a while
    Rest In Peace, Star Wars the Old Republic. SWTOR is a fun RPG, but a bad MMO

  20. #640
    LOAD"*",8,1 Fuzzzie's Avatar
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    Probably going to get back into the game when the FTP option becomes available. I don't think I'll be playing WoW for MOP.

    Any idea on an exact date? Only info I've found says "fall".

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