SWTOR Free to Play ?

[Vexies]

I kinda wonder why so many of them go straight to f2p after being p2p, instead of making it b2p and having a cash shop with ideals similar to what's being done with GW2.

I think a lot of companies are still looking for that uber hit that will be the next big MMO. If you can hit it big, as in WoW sub numbers big, then the money to be made is stupidly astronomical. However in reality I think the last MMO to see numbers like this will be WoW. History often proves us wrong but I think there is enough strong titles being released that the eventual dilution of the gaming population will see that no one title garners that amount of subs in the future.

GW2 is unique in that I think it gets it and its place in the MMO community and has a much better pulse on the changing trends of the MMO consumer base. With economies being what they are and the vitrol that so many sub based games get spewed when they go for that supposed brass ring they I think long ago narrowed in on a strategy that works for them and frees them of the need to be put up against or even try to make the sub model work. A lot of companies still pan for that sub money gold but its a hit or miss prospect with it mostly coming up pyrite if recent history shows us anything.

[alturic]

I agree this was a correct move, however I fear the biggest downfall of this game was the fact that they had to create so many servers because of the limited population each could hold and that this move has come too late. Well that and the delay of RWZ's. Granted the new server populations are refreshing when the last month its be 5-10 people on at peak times on the fleet, but I think its almost a guarantee that swtor will go f2p. Which necessarily isn't a bad thing. I'd go back to playing if it did.

You know, I'd love to have a chat with a game developer and ask them just how much a typical server could hold (player-wise) because I really don't see why they don't start small and then expand. They could be leasing the equipment to have it on hand so at launch if they see a LARGE queue of people SLOWLY bring additional servers up (considering you don't know how many will sub after the 30 days) so you don't have 30+ servers with hardly anyone on any except a few.

I do find it somewhat "odd" (bad wording?) that the only thing stopping you from playing the game which (inherently) you make seem to be a good (you'd go back) game is the sub fee. So the game is good, you'd be happy(?) to pay the sub fee, IF there was a player-base, or is it solely the sub-fee?

---------- Post added 2012-06-15 at 10:32 AM ----------

OT: ill probably still play if it goes free to play, i hope it doesn't effect the content they realise though.

If anything, I've seen F2P games, that come out with content, faster (considering they hope to make money off the content) than typical sub-based games. The real question would be, does the content lack quality because of the need to push it out faster.

---------- Post added 2012-06-15 at 10:35 AM ----------

I think a lot of companies are still looking for that uber hit that will be the next big MMO. If you can hit it big, as in WoW sub numbers big, then the money to be made is stupidly astronomical. However in reality I think the last MMO to see numbers like this will be WoW. History often proves us wrong but I think there is enough strong titles being released that the eventual dilution of the gaming population will see that no one title garners that amount of subs in the future.

GW2 is unique in that I think it gets it and its place in the MMO community and has a much better pulse on the changing trends of the MMO consumer base. With economies being what they are and the vitrol that so many sub based games get spewed when they go for that supposed brass ring they I think long ago narrowed in on a strategy that works for them and frees them of the need to be put up against or even try to make the sub model work. A lot of companies still pan for that sub money gold but its a hit or miss prospect with it mostly coming up pyrite if recent history shows us anything.

I think the biggest thing developers could learn from the GW franchise is that you don't NEED a sub-fee to have a game be profitable. What I mean by that is, surely if GW1 was costing them more money (on the hardware/bandwidth (as cheap as it is)/development expenses) than profit they would have shut it down.

Sure, I don't think GW ever had more than a million (two at most?) active players so the need for a ton of hardware/developers was never there either.

[ghostkitteh]

I'll grab it if it goes F2P.
I tried one of those "free weekend" things and I some-what enjoyed it. And these days I could use a proper RPG, heck I might even get used to the plastic-coated graphics.

It's a great game, though, it's very story driven, and once you're done with the stories, you've only got the atrocious PvP and the PvE, which is more interesting than WoW's, but far too easy. The story and the lore is just absolutely amazing though. If they would have just made a true Kotor3, I think it would have done much better, to be honest.

[ptwonline]

I kinda wonder why so many of them go straight to f2p after being p2p, instead of making it b2p and having a cash shop with ideals similar to what's being done with GW2.

Because the honeymoon period for any new game means people are willing to give up more in order to be able to play it. Developers/publishers can squeeze a lot of extra money out in the first year and then switch to a F2P model.

Not sure how long that will remain viable. Players may get savvy enough to simply wait it out, but in something like an MMO there are advantages to getting in on the ground floor and so there will always be some attraction to get in immediately (aside from impatience).

[dulcheshammie]

It's the right move. Bottom line for me after I played it for two months was "has some great assets but overall, too many glaring flaws for $15 a month." That was when I cancelled and haven't played it since. If it's F2P I'll play once in a while, at least servers will be active. It WILL become a more casual game in that model, but at least then it won't die out. If you're wondering what the great assets were, in my opinion: great writing, engaging stories, good voice acting (although I wish they had made some of it more, concise), nice combat animations.
Glaring flaws? Responsiveness, a tremendous amount of bugs (particularly in dungeons/instances) that went for months unresolved, very little flexibility in developing your character, boring talent trees with no dual spec feature, no LFG tool at launch, mediocre graphics particularly for a game that ran slow, alien races were just different skin colors as opposed to actually different models, worse running animation I've ever seen, world was too large and speeders too slow (making getting from point A to B a huge chore), very restricted companion relationships (this could have been a strength if there were same sex/options), space combat missions on rails, not enough end game content, a lot of the higher level gear looked ugly as shit, legacy perks were boring (such a cool concept, but executed poorly), completely static world in a game supposed to be about immersion. I could go on but, I won't.

[Kithelle]

Don`t get me wrong, like I said, they NEED to make this change now. It`ll be GOOD FOR THEM, because they need to at least try and make some of the money they lost, as people above me already said. But of course it won`t be the best solution. It`ll be the only solution.

I might finally try it as well.

But anyone here who thinks that when a game goes Free to Play it`s BETTER is delusional.

Let`s be honest here. I play WoW for 5 years. Every month I make my subscription payment. What is the amount of money I`ve already spent with WoW? 500-600 bucks??

Now, I`ve played DOZENS of Free to Play games. And not those crappy games you download, play once, and unistall it because it`s so bad. I`ve played Ragnarok for at least 2 years, Lineage II for 2-3 years as well, and MANY others.

Know how much money I spent on those games?? ZERO. Not even a dime. And don`t tell me I`m the exception. I am part of the VAST MAJORITY that doesn`t spent a single dime on free games.

What will really happen is that SWTOR simply will in the near future stop releasing REAL content, unless it`s an expansion. You can`t possibly expect a company to produce content for a game that is now Free to Play, and obviously NOT making as much money as they thought it would.

STO is the perfect counterpoint to your claims! Since it went free to play it has gotten more active (though I admit it isn't exactly wow active) not to mention it has no endgame and people still play it. Raiding isn't everything you know and you make it sound like its the end all be all of MMOs...just about everyone I knew when I quit wow didn't raid.

You seem to ignore everything besides raiding...seem to ignore the atmosphere that is created, the love for a franchise, and pvp to say a few.

Wow fans who jumped shipped and thought tor was going to be the wow killer and when it wasn't they jumped ship again or simply went back because they didn't want to give up all the work in wow.

That's a problem right there! People thought tor was going to be a wow killer and they were sore when it wasn't...right about gw2 in the same way where people think its going to be a wow killer and will be sore if it isn't.

Lets face it, wow is inferior to these new mmo's in a lot of ways, but people don't want to give up their years of playing, for many reasons...including nostalgia. Reminds me of something I saw on tv recently...a old man doesn't want to give up his records even though his son bought him cd's which had superior quality...which is like wow...even though its inferior people don't want to give it up because of their history in it.

[alturic]

It's a great game, though, it's very story driven, and once you're done with the stories, you've only got the atrocious PvP and the PvE, which is more interesting than WoW's, but far too easy. The story and the lore is just absolutely amazing though. If they would have just made a true Kotor3, I think it would have done much better, to be honest.

So, let me dissect your comment, and tell me if I'm right.

If I don't care about story/lore (let alone the Star Wars one) in a game, ToR isn't for me?
If the PvP and PvE is atrocious, how can it be better than WoW's? I think anyone who truely says WoW's end-game model isn't one of the best there is, they are lying to themselves.

I also said during beta, and at launch that they spent way to much time and money (which could have been better spend elsewhere in the game) in the story/lore/voice-over section.

It's really funny actually because, if you are a frequent MMO-C user and read other forums, you see the massive amount of people complaining games are becoming too easy, too little time investment, etc because of the fast-paced world we live in (not just in games, but even in the real-world), apparently a lot of people want to logon do their thing and logoff at whim without any need to invest/devote/insertyourchoicewordhere to "play" said game.

What I mean by this is that I think they banked on the story/lore/voice-overs to be a huge aspect of the game and would keep people wanting more, if anything I think that couldn't be further from the truth. I think most people want to accept the quest, kill 10 smuggler's and turn it in. They don't care why you are killing the smugglers, nor that there is some sexy voice telling you they stole a bracelet from her, etc.

I bought ToR when it came out. I gave it a fair chance (got to lever 15-20, don't remember) and it just didn't "feel" right. Sure 7 years of WoW give me huge expectations for a game, but still. I uninstalled it within a week I believe.

Also, don't take any of what I said as a WoW fanboy. I don't even have an active subscription anymore. The only thing I may be considered a WoW fanboy about is that truthfully, I don't care if you don't like the game now. You have to admit, very, very few (if any truthfully) has such a polished end-game that WoW does.

[xindykawai]

If it goes ftp i "might" finish leveling my Jedi Knight or my trooper.
I current state, heel has to freeze over before i give EA/BW another dime for this game.

same as me, if it goes f2p, i might into the game a bit more.. i didnt feel paying 2 sub per month with all those house payment, so basically, f2p, i might play again.

[alturic]

STO is the perfect counterpoint to your claims! Since it went free to play it has gotten more active (though I admit it isn't exactly wow active) not to mention it has no endgame and people still play it. Raiding isn't everything you know and you make it sound like its the end all be all of MMOs...just about everyone I knew when I quit wow didn't raid.

You seem to ignore everything besides raiding...seem to ignore the atmosphere that is created, the love for a franchise, and pvp to say a few.

Lets face it, wow is inferior to these new mmo's in a lot of ways, but people don't want to give up their years of playing, for many reasons...including nostalgia. Reminds me of something I saw on tv recently...a old man doesn't want to give up his records even though his son bought him cd's which had superior quality...which is like wow...even though its inferior people don't want to give it up because of their history in it.

So I wanted to try STO before it went F2P and being that it has, maybe I will try it someday, but I really don't know how many MMO's (gear-based) you've played but I don't think I have ever played a gear-based, subscription based MMO that DIDN'T have dungeons/raids (sure, not all of them call them that) and what I mean by that is I have never played a GB,SB MMO that you would log on, accept a quest (considering level based MMOs involve quests as your source of doing things) and then collect epic (quality) gear.

[Deleted]

That soon after the launch a possible free to play? I bet there are still people that claim there were no problems in this game and that everything was fine.
This should be a major flop, sadly. Even Age of Connan took way longer to become f2p.

[summourn]

Well, I-

... I don't know how to feel about this.

I really do love SWTOR. I've watched in dismay as the population has been systematically shed over the past few months. I've listened to various levels of haters in other MMOs get their e-jollies by tearing it apart and saying what a failure it is, etc. But I, personally, have loved the game since Day 1.

If it goes F2P, it's a final admittance of defeat, that the game did fail and that, in a way, it's "bad". Or, at least, was poorly managed. On the other hand, not paying a monthly sub would be awesome, and sometimes a cash shop isn't entirely evil if done right. It can mean that more customization and fun things will be available (for purchase with real money, of course).

Just dunno really what to think on it, yet. That is if it even goes F2P at all, of course. It's just a consideration at the moment.

Edit: The more I think about it, the more it does make me sad. I understand F2P will bring in a lot of people who want to play the game or have a vague interest that isn't strong enough to warrant a sub fee, but as some of the posts I'm reading have mentioned, in the end, it's kind of like saying Bioware has failed to achieve what they set out to do with this rather ambitious and involving project. It honestly makes me sad for them, because I've always admired and respected them as a company (yes yes, ME3 fiasco aside...).

I've put countless hours into SWTOR and have loved every moment of it. I want to support the company and I want them to do well and to succeed. I guess, despite this possibly being a nice band-aid on the game and bringing back potential people, it's also admitting falling a bit short of the goal they'd tried to reach, in a way. Sadface.

[alturic]

If it goes ftp i "might" finish leveling my Jedi Knight or my trooper.
I current state, heel has to freeze over before i give EA/BW another dime for this game.

same as me, if it goes f2p, i might into the game a bit more.. i didnt feel paying 2 sub per month with all those house payment, so basically, f2p, i might play again.

So if they used the F2P model that LotRO/DDO use to where entire "sections" of things are bought (zones/quests) and not the older-style F2P (buy a potion to increase XP gains, cosmetic clothing i.e. no gear, etc) you would play?

I actually think in LotRO, for example that there comes points in the level gap that you are almost forced (as a free player) to purchase things or grind mobs until you level. I don't remember what it was, but I didn't think LotRO was worth $15/mo, so I gave it a shot, and when I seen all the things they sold I was like yea, this isn't F2P this is essentially a trial, because there was so many things that you either subbed (and got everything for free) or paid for each individual item. Of course my mind is foggy on LotRO because I don't think I've tried it in well over 6 months, but just saying.

[Xiorin]

If SW:ToR went F2P, I'd play it again. I never got to max level and never finished any of the story arcs I started. I would at least complete a few class stories before putting it down again.

[jeepguy16]

LotRO does well being F2P. I thing SWTOR has the potential to do even better since, for me, my favorite part was the questing and once that was over, everything else was pretty bland. But if they said, for $5 or so, you could have giant epic smuggler quest, I would be ready to give them the money in a second.

Really hope they go F2P. I will be back as soon as they do. I just couldn't justify spending $15 a month on a game I wasn't playing much (and knew I would play even less once I had D3).

[alturic]

Well, I-

... I don't know how to feel about this.

I really do love SWTOR. I've watched in dismay as the population has been systematically shed over the past few months. I've listened to various levels of haters in other MMOs get their e-jollies by tearing it apart and saying what a failure it is, etc. But I, personally, have loved the game since Day 1.

If it goes F2P, it's a final admittance of defeat, that the game did fail and that, in a way, it's "bad". Or, at least, was poorly managed. On the other hand, not paying a monthly sub would be awesome, and sometimes a cash shop isn't entirely evil if done right. It can mean that more customization and fun things will be available (for purchase with real money, of course).

Just dunno really what to think on it, yet. That is if it even goes F2P at all, of course. It's just a consideration at the moment.

Read my above post. It would surely be awesome, but in the same regard it all depends on just how they model the cash shop. Traditional (potions, cosmetic items) or LotRO/DDO-style where sections of the game are stripped out unless you sub/buy them.

[summourn]

Read my above post. It would surely be awesome, but in the same regard it all depends on just how they model the cash shop. Traditional (potions, cosmetic items) or LotRO/DDO-style where sections of the game are stripped out unless you sub/buy them.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you. It would be awesome to play as a F2P game. Or, at least, potentially so. As you mentioned, it all comes down to how the cash shop is operated and ran. I think maybe extra races, appearances, orange moddable clothes, pets, mounts etc would be awesome. Having to use the cash shop to get anywhere in the game, though? That would be terrible.

I doubt it would be anything like that though, because in the current state of the game, I can level from 1-50 without having to rely on any kind of specific item or boost or crutch. To make it something like that, where you have to buy certain items from the cash shop to advance, would literally be to change the very way the game operates.

Then again, anything's possible.

[Argroth]

So they won't do actual server mergers because that would look bad but they will consider going free to play?

WTF?

I feel like we can see any quality work going right out the window if the game goes free to play.

Either that or they will have some sort of buy to play store (i.e. buy this imaginary hat with stats on it for 15 real dollars) and I would cancel my sub immediately.

Any game with a cash shop is garbage and I'm not gonna pay rediculous amounts for every knick knack just so i can play the very limited content that will be free.

[Deleted]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you. It would be awesome to play as a F2P game. Or, at least, potentially so. As you mentioned, it all comes down to how the cash shop is operated and ran. I think maybe extra races, appearances, orange moddable clothes, pets, mounts etc would be awesome. Having to use the cash shop to get anywhere in the game, though? That would be terrible.

I doubt it would be anything like that though, because in the current state of the game, I can level from 1-50 without having to rely on any kind of specific item or boost or crutch. To make it something like that, where you have to buy certain items from the cash shop to advance, would literally be to change the very way the game operates.

Then again, anything's possible.

Yea i think that would be good, the clothes, legacy perks quick unlock, unique saber crystals etc would bring them in a fair bit of money

[Deleted]

Although I had no clue how the game was going to progress in terms of subscriber, when I saw the number kept falling I realised it was going to happen eventually
I haven't tried the game myself but when it foes f2p I'll make sure to try it out.

[alturic]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you. It would be awesome to play as a F2P game. Or, at least, potentially so. As you mentioned, it all comes down to how the cash shop is operated and ran. I think maybe extra races, appearances, orange moddable clothes, pets, mounts etc would be awesome. Having to use the cash shop to get anywhere in the game, though? That would be terrible.

I doubt it would be anything like that though, because in the current state of the game, I can level from 1-50 without having to rely on any kind of specific item or boost or crutch. To make it something like that, where you have to buy certain items from the cash shop to advance, would literally be to change the very way the game operates.

Then again, anything's possible.

Like I said, I don't know how LotRO/DDO was before the cash shop, but it wouldn't really be difficult to make certain quests (considering you don't need to do EVERY quest that's currently in the game) cash shop purchased.

That, to me, is why F2P is bad. Plus, like most people on here seem to think as well. Once a game goes F2P they are basically admitting the game wasn't making enough money monthly to be worthwhile, so before we shut it down, we're giving it one last chance to succeed. Anyone who doesn't think that's what a developer is saying when a game goes F2P is fooling themselves, because while you always have people who like to spend extra money, if a very, very large majority of the F2P player-base never bought a single thing, you definitely cannot sustain yourself on the people who do.