Who is tired of all the doom and gloom threads?

[Lord Blackmore]

Well yea I don't think one is better than the other out right. And I'm not sure you can make that statement or prove it. Yes everyone is welcome to their opinion but we ask that your opinions be able to stand up to some kind of reason or critique. If both have pros and cons do you honestly feel you can objectively attribute a value to one over the other?

It's completely subjective. It can't be looked at objectively any more than chocolate vs. vanilla can be looked at objectively. People's opinions on the subject are formed based on their experience. People who have had good success and experiences with cross realm will likely consider that a better choice for the benefits it brings. People who have had bad experiences will like consider a server only system better because it helps hold people accountable.

The point is that it's not objective at all. Better is subjective. And it's not reasonable to expect people to hold a neutral opinion of they're just different because people have formed opinions based on experience.

[Leonard McCoy]

It's completely subjective. It can't be looked at objectively any more than chocolate vs. vanilla can be looked at objectively. People's opinions on the subject are formed based on their experience. People who have had good success and experiences with cross realm will likely consider that a better choice for the benefits it brings. People who have had bad experiences will like consider a server only system better because it helps hold people accountable.

The point is that it's not objective at all. Better is subjective. And it's not reasonable to expect people to hold a neutral opinion of they're just different because people have formed opinions based on experience.

I don't consider that neutral or for that matter mutually exclusive. You can hold the position that you think one is better than the other but also acknowledge that both are different and appeal to different groups of people.

[noahjam326]

I don't consider that neutral or for that matter mutually exclusive. You can hold the position that you think one is better than the other but also acknowledge that both are different and appeal to different groups of people.

It's funny, because this is exactly what I said in one of my earlier posts. I personally prefer cross-realm, but I recognize why some people don't.

[Lilly32]

Speaking of busts, does anyone remember the NGE or Vanguard: Saga of Heroes?

They didnt have the budget this game did nor all the Hype. Also the name Star Wars is known world wide. This game had high expectations just carrying that name alone. Then they released the crazy amount of money they spent on the game which made things worse cause it makes you wonder what they actually spent it all on.

[noahjam326]

They didnt have the budget this game did nor all the Hype. Also the name Star Wars is known world wide. This game had high expectations just carrying that name alone. Then they released the crazy amount of money they spent on the game which made things worse cause it makes you wonder what they actually spent it all on.

No, they didn't. That's why every single person has a different number when you ask them.

[Leonard McCoy]

No, they didn't. That's why every single person has a different number when you ask them.

Lmao weve now reached the point where myth and rumour are now fact. It's great watching it happen.

[Dakia]

Then they released the crazy amount of money they spent on the game

That has certainly not happened. There has been an insane amount of analyst speculation going as far as (that I have seen) 500 million. Reps have stated that it didn't cost more than 200 million, but there has been no official release as to the final cost of the game.

Lmao weve now reached the point where myth and rumour are now fact. It's great watching it happen.

I really do find those posts that talk about the game costing so much to be entertaining because they state speculation as fact.

[HBpapa]

That has certainly not happened. There has been an insane amount of analyst speculation going as far as (that I have seen) 500 million. Reps have stated that it didn't cost more than 200 million, but there has been no official release as to the final cost of the game.


I really do find those posts that talk about the game costing so much to be entertaining because they state speculation as fact.

Hmm, just spent this past Saturday with an old friend and now ex-BW Austin employee (just got picked up by Valve(?) for some kind of game engine stuff...good for him). Over lunch he told me the game cost just a little over $100m. Don't think a guy I've known for 20 years would lie to me...but he could certainly be in the dark as much as anyone else.

[Leonard McCoy]

Hmm, just spent this past Saturday with an old friend and now ex-BW Austin employee (just got picked up by Valve(?) for some kind of game engine stuff...good for him). Over lunch he told me the game cost just a little over $100m. Don't think a guy I've known for 20 years would lie to me...but he could certainly be in the dark as much as anyone else.

I don't think he'd lie to you either but he may not necesarilly have all the information depending on his position in the company. I wonder was it stephen reid? That bastard is sorely needed imo

[ringthree]

It's funny, because this is exactly what I said in one of my earlier posts. I personally prefer cross-realm, but I recognize why some people don't.

I also recognize that some people don't like it, but when designing a game, you are never going to have 100% approval of anything. Game design is very utilitarian (or at least it should be in most cases), and in general designers should focus on doing the most good for the most people.

[JesterOfFire]

I also recognize that some people don't like it, but when designing a game, you are never going to have 100% approval of anything. Game design is very utilitarian (or at least it should be in most cases), and in general designers should focus on doing the most good for the most people.

Shhhh, don't say that around the hardcore minority, you might hurt their feelings, and then we'll NEVER hear the end of it!

[Loafy]

It seems like this is a common theme from the SWTOR fan base here on MMO-Champ.

"You don't like our game and you post that you don't like it.....so we don't like you and you don't belong here."

This is a forum for open discussion of different topics. One of those topics being SWTOR. Just because we're naysaying your precious game(with some very valid points), you ask that we pretend there aren't any issues and post as though it's the most perfect game ever and there is nothing wrong. Accept the fact that there are a lot of people who don't think it's a great game like many claim it is.

You also have to accept the fact that people do like the game, and you coming in and saying "this is my forum to and ill post what i want, QQ" isn't helping anything. I bet you get your knickers in a twist when someone criticises your choice of game. Alot of people like the game the way it is, and thats fine, and what you may consider a valid point may not be a valid point to another person.

Edit

many people probably do claim that the game is perfect (im not saying it is), but there is no need to come in and start telling them they are wrong if that's what they believe, to them mabye it is perfect.

[Darsithis]

You also have to accept the fact that people do like the game, and you coming in and saying "this is my forum to and ill post what i want, QQ" isn't helping anything. I bet you get your knickers in a twist when someone criticises your choice of game. Alot of people like the game the way it is, and thats fine, and what you may consider a valid point may not be a valid point to another person.

Probably the best thing I've seen so far. People do like SWTOR or no one would be playing it. It's one thing to post in a thread a constructive description of an aspect of the game you dislike (and what you'd do to change it), and it's quite another to post in threads to say "I hate the game, I don't play it". If you don't play it, you don't need to be on a fan forum to tell everyone about it. The doom & gloom threads are annoying to listen to.

As a moderator, I have to look over every thread in the 9 forums I moderate. That means I have to read, over and over again how WoW, SWTOR, and Diablo are all dying. They're all terrible games. Everything is ending. It's depressing to read after a while, and yeah, I'd love to see an end to the hyperbolic threads, myself.

[Profyrion]

It seems like this is a common theme from the SWTOR fan base here on MMO-Champ.

"You don't like our game and you post that you don't like it.....so we don't like you and you don't belong here."

I'm disgusted that this is what you took away from my post. It's clear that you either didn't read it, or you completely (miserably) failed to understand it.

Don't fucking put words in my mouth. That's exactly the kind of abrasive, trolling bullshit this thread is talking about. STOP IT.

This is a forum for open discussion of different topics. One of those topics being SWTOR. Just because we're naysaying your precious game(with some very valid points), you ask that we pretend there aren't any issues and post as though it's the most perfect game ever and there is nothing wrong. Accept the fact that there are a lot of people who don't think it's a great game like many claim it is.

It's perfectly acceptable not to like the game. Different people like different things. Nobody here will deprive you of your precious right to speak.

That's not what this is about.

Share your opinion if you must. Build your nice bulleted list of grievances. That's fine. But when you're done sharing, get the fuck out. There's no point in invading every thread to retread the numerous "problems" you had with the game. There should be better things for you to do; better games to play. Go play them. If you like another game better, go find that game's forum and talk about it with those people. Grinding an axe in here serves no purpose whatsoever.

There are no Bioware developers here, only other fans. Just gamers. We can talk about your issues like adults if that's how you choose to approach it, but you have to frame it like you're capable of civil discussion and receptive to our responses. That starts with you. If you can't do that I'm sure one of the mods will show you the door.

Cut the shit.

[Justforthis123]

As a moderator, I have to look over every thread in the 9 forums I moderate. That means I have to read, over and over again how WoW, SWTOR, and Diablo are all dying. They're all terrible games. Everything is ending. It's depressing to read after a while, and yeah, I'd love to see an end to the hyperbolic threads, myself.

Can i have it as a sig ?

[Ziktus]

It's not just concerning SWTOR, it's everywhere. The good news is, it will only get worse, and worse, and worse, and worse. The mentality to spread hate and envy over the internet started to become more and more visible, and is slowly taking over the world

[ringthree]

Probably the best thing I've seen so far. People do like SWTOR or no one would be playing it. It's one thing to post in a thread a constructive description of an aspect of the game you dislike (and what you'd do to change it), and it's quite another to post in threads to say "I hate the game, I don't play it". If you don't play it, you don't need to be on a fan forum to tell everyone about it. The doom & gloom threads are annoying to listen to.

As a moderator, I have to look over every thread in the 9 forums I moderate. That means I have to read, over and over again how WoW, SWTOR, and Diablo are all dying. They're all terrible games. Everything is ending. It's depressing to read after a while, and yeah, I'd love to see an end to the hyperbolic threads, myself.

Then problem is that very few people come in and actually say "I hate this game, and I am just here to annoy everyone". Most of the people voice realistic complaints, either to vent frustration or to find common cause. That is not a bad thing, neither is coming to express enjoyment or to find common cause.

There is way too much focusing on what other people have said to upset you, on either side, and threads like that just encourage people to complain on both sides.

[Lord Blackmore]

I also recognize that some people don't like it, but when designing a game, you are never going to have 100% approval of anything. Game design is very utilitarian (or at least it should be in most cases), and in general designers should focus on doing the most good for the most people.

And not bow to pressure from whatever the vocal minority wants.

---------- Post added 2012-06-20 at 08:32 AM ----------

I don't consider that neutral or for that matter mutually exclusive. You can hold the position that you think one is better than the other but also acknowledge that both are different and appeal to different groups of people.

All I'm saying is that people will always have an opinion of which is better.

[noahjam326]

I also recognize that some people don't like it, but when designing a game, you are never going to have 100% approval of anything. Game design is very utilitarian (or at least it should be in most cases), and in general designers should focus on doing the most good for the most people.

But I already explained why the decision to not make it cross-realm could do the most good for the most people, and why this decision would benefit Bioware the most. You even asked me to start a discussion about it, so I stated the reasoning for why Bioware is making the decisions they are. At least in my opinion. I'll just quote myself because you seemed to have missed it.

Cross-realm doesn't really bother me in the least, and it would allow for a larger pool of players. But I understand why some people are against it. My personal gameplay isn't really changed one way or the other because of it. In SWTOR (or really WoW for that matter) I've never found trying to get into a Flashpoint or Warzone to be a monumental task. I play on Jung Ma and Corellian Run, not the most populated servers (at least not on the level of The Fatman). So from my perspective I can understand why Bioware would side with the "community feeling." You can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time, so most decisions become balancing how many people you will please and how many you will upset, and this goes even further to "are they upset enough to unsub?" Based on my preliminary observations of the transfers system (Jung Ma was one of the first so it's been about a week now) I think they've made a good decision so far. Right now queues are less than a minute and it keeps the "community" crowd happy. Bioware is currently able to please both of these crowds so I can understand why they would side with this decision. If they can keep the server populated enough to keep queues at a reasonable level without having to go cross-realm then it seems like the best solution to please both crowds. If queues are less than a minute, then making it cross-server might change that too... less than 30 seconds. Now it's up to Bioware to determine whether that 30 seconds is actually worth something to the playerbase. If their metrics state that 30 seconds means nothing then it's just smarter to leave it same-realm because you keep that crowd happy without affecting the other crowd.

Edit: As the person above me quoted, my assumption sounds exactly like what Bioware is doing. If the transfers/mergers/whatever keeps the servers populated enough to have reasonable queues, then there's really no reason to make them cross-server and upset the "community" crowd.

People just want low queue times. If Bioware can keep low queue times without needing to go cross-realm then it keeps both of those groups happy. It's up to Bioware to determine if that "30 seconds" is significant or not. I don't have the data to say whether it is or isn't, and I don't think you do either. Your personal belief may be that any level of inefficiency pisses you off, that hypothetical "30 seconds" might mean something to you personally. But you can't claim that's the majority belief. As I stated above I believe the people don't care about how Bioware lowers queues, but that the queues are low. So if Bioware can keep low queues and the "community" then they have effectively pleased both crowds.

[Profyrion]

A few of you seem to be hung up on this idea that cross-realm queues offer lower queue times. That isn't necessarily true.

If queues are high on a given server because of a lack of tanks (for example), expanding the queue to multiple (or all) servers will not significantly change that. It's not a tank queue, it's an everybody queue. So expanding it will introduce more tanks, but it will also introduce more of everyone else, all competing for the same limited resource (tanks in this case). The size of the pool doesn't matter. A larger pool just spreads the problem around more without really addressing it.

It's true that on a single server there may be a disproportionately low number of tanks. In that single instance it's true that expanding the pool would raise the availability of tanks and, thus, lower queue times. But that's just one server. And by introducing that server to the pool, you have effectively increased queue times for everyone else in the pool because the same low number of tanks now has to serve all the new players. So in a "big picture" sense, that would be a very stupid move.

If tanks are scarce, the most logical solution is to increase the total number of tanks in a given pool. Just the tanks. You do that by giving players compelling gameplay reasons to play tanks -- not bribes, you have to make it fun and interesting.

Obviously tanks are just an example. This same principle applies to any role, including DPS. Increasing the pool does not always equal shorter queues.

Sorry if this is off-topic. Hopefully it puts the issue to rest.