Guild perk bonuses against Blizzards new design intent?

[ghostnet]

Blizzard seems to be designing the game (as we have seen from Mists info) towards the more optional design plan. For example they are removing head enchants so that players aren't forced to grind a particular rep, as well as the Talent system more optional based and not relying on cookie-cutter builds. I'm wondering if the guild perks and bonuses go against that design intent, it essentially makes players feel they "need" to join a high level guild to get the most out of the game (faster levelling, faster travelling, discounts etc.) Don't you think that these perks make players who don't necessarily want to be in a high level busy guild, or a guild at all for that matter feel they are at a disadvantage?

I'm really interested to what you guys think, IMHO the current guild perk system is basically rewarding people who are in guilds, but isn't being in a guild optional? I find that "oh i have to grind that rep because it has my head enchant" and "oh i would love to join my friends new guild, but i have to join this high level one because i need my <whatever perk>" pretty much the same thing and gives you the same bad feeling. Already on live, when i joined my friends new guild i was really really excited but felt terrible that i was at a disadvantage pretty much until we hit 25. IMHO i DO think the perks are helpful and benifiteable enough to make a player feel forced to join a guild, and i think it goes against their new design philosophy.

Anyway, I'd love to hear you guys thoughts on this

[Howlrunner]

Blizzard have said before I believe that they want to encourage people to join and play in guilds, as the social aspect of an MMO is paramount.
Basically, it's an MMO, if you want to single player, you can, but goes totally against the spirit of the whole enterprise.

Of course there is going to be rewards and *perks* to joining a guild, its to encourage you to join, your not penalised by not having one, but its made easier if you do. Of coure joining a high end guild makes certain things easier, but your by no means at a huge disadvangate if your in a smaller one. Too often I see knobs in trade going "LFGuild lvl 25 only" without wondering what they bring to the guild.
The only people to my mind that feel they *must* join a level 25 guild are usually junky players who feel they somehow deserve any perks, or who are too garbage/impatient to play without them.

[Arothand]

Honestly I'll be happy when they remove things like HGWT, since having major perks only in level 25 guilds basically screwed over any new guild forming, since nobody wants to join a guild that won't have all the perks, especially "required" perks like Mass Rezz or the big cauldrons.

[Hellprank]

I know a few people who just used to roam around guildless because they liked to just do pugs and stuff. But when Cata hit they were kinda forced into playing in a guild, the perks they give is directly affecting your gameplay with faster mountspeed, better gathering professions, more xp, faster ghost when you die, mass teleport and ress, cauldrons so you got 12 flasks instead of just 7 (which is kinda a dealbreaker). So yes i think they should just remove the perks from guilds and make it into cosmetic perks instead like mounts/transmog gear/tabards etc.

[pimpeddakota]

SOCIAL GAME... go figure...

[muxx]

Sorry, so we are asking blizzard to get rid of something that encourages people to socialize and join a guild rather than flying solo and complaining about not being able to complete raids.

All of the perks a guild gives ARE NOT NEEDED. They are all just things that help out but nothing major. Sure mass rez is cool, but its not going to make you lose friends or get you kicked out of a group b/c you don't have it. Cool 10% mount speed, I get to fly somewhere 10% faster than you?

I honestly do not see a downside of being in a guild. I personally cannot stand being spammed with guild invites/people asking me to join their guild or even not having guild chat to keep me entertained while leveling.

If you have social problems just join the guild and turn off guild chat. Yeah you get a lot of perks from guilds, but you do not lose anything by joining a guild. This is a social MMO. You need more than one player to complete about 90% of endgame.

Not to long ago I was reading about how people don't socialize in PUGs anymore, and that LFG/LFR killed communities. Blizzard added in perks to guilds so that indeed you would be encouraged to socialize with people on your server. If someone declines your guild invite b/c you are not a lvl 25 guild then maybe he is not the best candidate for your guild. They are already getting rid of a few of the perks in MoP such as mass summon and a couple others to make it so people travel around the world more often which is great and I'm all for that, but its going to cause people who can't pvp very well or 10 man guilds to complain about the summon stones being outside of the instance where on faction imbalanced servers are to have to wait an hour before they can use the stone while the 25m guilds summon people.

In the end Guild perks DO encourage you to join a guild. That is their purpose. If someone says "well you don't have mass rez, why should I bother to join your guild?" that person is probably only joining the guild to get something from you and not be your friend or someone you can rely on in a raid environment. Personally I have never run into that nor have I joined a guild based on their current level. If you don't like to be in guilds (I would not understand why you wouldn't there is fun beyond game play to be had and I have networked with a LOT of people over the course of the 10+ years I have been playing MMO's) b/c of social reasons, there is a chat option to turn off guild chat, and you can also ignore people or just go DND and or ignore tells from people. There is not one single downside of joining a casual level 25 guild if that's what you need.

TL;DR - Nothing wrong with being in a guild. Perks are there for EVERYONE. If you don't like being in a guild then don't complain about guild perks because there is nothing to lose when you join a guild.

[LorellaiLaLa]

In my opinion, guild perks are a bad thing for the people making a new guild - everyone wants higher level guild, but on the other side, it encourages people to join and I like that.
I can't imagine playing OUTSIDE a guild, and I would join a low level guild too, if I had loads of friends in it or if a friend would need help with it.
But also, perks encourage you to level your guild - which means do one raid weekly, do heroics with guildies. I like the whole idea, and even though you can live without perks - why don't you join and have some fun in guild chat and maybe make a couple new friends?

[ghostnet]

I think they still should make it so players who choose to join a guild that happens to not be level 25, should be able to do so without feeling they are missing out on perks (more xp, faster mounts etc). I'd much rather have the perks Guild-related rather than just flat bonuses to general things, for example instead of giving a flat 10% more to JP gain, give it a 10% JP gain when in guild groups. Another example would be instead of general vendor discounts, just make the discounts on items from the guild vendor, this would make the perks more guild-related and players who want to join lower level guild wont feel they are missing out on much (because the perks would only effect things guild-related instead of just flat bonuses to general things).

[Joodoc]

It really isn't hard to max level a guild, you can do it in one week without the gating with 2 people in arena.

So yes you should be in a guild, but if you really want those perks, you can still be in a friends guild

[Aquamonkey]

Grinding a rep for a helm enchant increases your power. Joining a lvl 25 guild for the perks does not.

[ghostnet]

Grinding a rep for a helm enchant increases your power. Joining a lvl 25 guild for the perks does not.

It would however reduce the amount of money you overall spend, make professions easier to level, give you faster travel speeds, allow you to buy higher level gear faster due to the JP % increase, and many more things that increase things that players do everyday in the game. Blizzard aims to make things more optional in MoP, they are making raids not the only end-game thing to do, because some people don't want to raid. Those people for example who choose to just do dailies all day have a large advantage over others if they have the perks, because the perks will essentially increase the speed at which you finish and the money you make from it, which really would force players to join a high level guild even if they didn't really want to. I hope I'm making sense, but i really feel that it should be more optional to join a guild that is a low level, and not feel you are missing out on general game bonuses. This is why i think if the perks just gave bonuses to guild-related things, there would be less of a reason to "only join this guild for it's perks" because the perks wouldn't be so game changing.

[Loredraker]

I agree with the OP, the perks that you receive from being in a guild currently give you bonuses that increase on things you do everyday in WOW. They make it easier to get money, raid, travel, buy/sell, earn gear and save money, which are all game changers really. Low level guilds were killed in cataclysym because people are more interested in the perks rather than the community of the guild, so people saying "perks are good becuase it forces you to be social", well no because most people will just join for the perks and that's it. If, as the OP said the perks were more guild related, i think players wouldn't just join for the perks because the perks would only benifit those participating within the guild.

[Dedweight]

SOCIAL GAME... go figure...

Social in what way? That you play with other people to achieve a specific goal? I could do the same in CoD or any other FPS but I wouldn't consider it a social game. Sure WoW has many social aspects and a lot of people participate in those but I honestly think WoW is anything but a social game.

As for the Guild perks being against Blizzards new design intent? I don't think so, they've been pushing for people to join guilds for years. Sure there's some perks that some people view as being a great advantage for higher level guilds over lower level ones but very few are really at any more of a disadvantage as anything else you could possibly choose in MoP.

[Maruka]

They do need to make it easier for small guilds to level, a guild of 25 people will have a bad time leveling up.

[Aquamonkey]

It would however reduce the amount of money you overall spend, make professions easier to level, give you faster travel speeds, allow you to buy higher level gear faster due to the JP % increase, and many more things that increase things that players do everyday in the game. Blizzard aims to make things more optional in MoP, they are making raids not the only end-game thing to do, because some people don't want to raid. Those people for example who choose to just do dailies all day have a large advantage over others if they have the perks, because the perks will essentially increase the speed at which you finish and the money you make from it, which really would force players to join a high level guild even if they didn't really want to. I hope I'm making sense, but i really feel that it should be more optional to join a guild that is a low level, and not feel you are missing out on general game bonuses. This is why i think if the perks just gave bonuses to guild-related things, there would be less of a reason to "only join this guild for it's perks" because the perks wouldn't be so game changing.

A QoL perk that makes things you already do go faster is completely different than making you do something you wouldn't otherwise in order to gain something that can't be obtained anywhere else.

[Keuric]

It would however reduce the amount of money you overall spend, make professions easier to level, give you faster travel speeds, allow you to buy higher level gear faster due to the JP % increase, and many more things that increase things that players do everyday in the game. Blizzard aims to make things more optional in MoP, they are making raids not the only end-game thing to do, because some people don't want to raid. Those people for example who choose to just do dailies all day have a large advantage over others if they have the perks, because the perks will essentially increase the speed at which you finish and the money you make from it, which really would force players to join a high level guild even if they didn't really want to. I hope I'm making sense, but i really feel that it should be more optional to join a guild that is a low level, and not feel you are missing out on general game bonuses. This is why i think if the perks just gave bonuses to guild-related things, there would be less of a reason to "only join this guild for it's perks" because the perks wouldn't be so game changing.

Still very optional. Just like when you select a race - you have the option of rolling a goblin and spending a ton less money using Best Deals Anywhere. These are boosts to already-existing abilities. Many guilds group together on a regular basis (raiding for example), so skills like Mass Res, Have Group, Chug-a-Lug or The Quick and the Dead are generally going to occur for guildies a lot more or are only for guildies. Others like Mobile Banking and Guild Mail are inter-guild only.

Do you need to get rep faster (what if you're Human? Another optional racial ability) or to save money with Bartering? Is that 10% really going to kill you? If it is, then yeah, you either need to save money, prioritize your money better or join a high-level guild. But guild perks are really the least of your problems in that scenario.

[Lamorak]

Just because a guild is lvl 25 doesnt mean its a busy guild, i recall someone telling me 1 guy solo lvled his guild upto 25, it took him a few months but you get the picture.

[Aquamonkey]

You could also join a lvl 25, then turn off guild chat.