The Elder Scrolls Online and Zenimax's approach is pretty bad

[andrewwk]

As someone who considers Dark Age of Camelot to be on of his most memorable games ever played, I very much dislike the direction this MMO is going while under the helm of Matt Firor. I am not a big Elder Scrolls fan and have not played a single game within that franchise but cannot help but feel that this game seems to stray off the gameplay of the original series quite a bit.

What interests me the most about this game is the 3 faction PvP. Matt Firor is a very familiar name when one thinks of Dark Age of Camelot. There are a few 3 faction PvP MMOs coming out such as : GW 2, Dominus, TESO, and possibly a couple more I cannot name. I understand that Matt Firor being from Dark Age of Camelot and being a huge creative force in that game has a sort of right by creation to implement 3 faction PvP in his project but cannot help but feel that in a few ways Zenimax is stepping on the toes of ArenaNet by utilizing some of the facets of Guild Wars 2 that stand out and make it a great game.

Zenimax is not only utilizing 3 faction PvP but also seem to be adopting the skill bar setup that GW 2 is using :

On top of this, they are also promoting this game as being an MMO that breaks away from tank and spank / 1 key spam and promotes 'action combat' similar to TERA and GW2. Paul Sage even goes on to promote the game as one that lets you 'play the way you want' in regards to exploring, questing, etc. in several E3 interview videos such as :

This hotbar layout would have a similar minimalist layout to that seen in GW 2. All classes will be able to block similarly to how all classes in GW 2 can dodge roll. They of course did mention two other abilities crouch (stealth for all classes, wtf? Lol) and sprint (run faster, from DAoC/WAR) I forgot to mention that they (TESO) also mentioned that there are cross class combinations that can be performed in the game again similar to GW 2. Even the art execution for the world and surrounding environments are a bit similar to those found in GW2.

I am not ignorant to believe that no company in this industry would 'take' and implement any game/companies ideas into their own game to make it better. For example, I recently was watching some TERA online video footage of the PvP and noticed that whenever someone registers a critical blow it displays a small gash of blood on the screen where the combat scrolling text is. I saw this same feature in the most recent BWE 2 event for GW 2.

Of course, there may be many more similarities found between GW 2 and other games but that is not the point. The point is that Zenimax just seems to be taking an easy route to promoting their game as being one similar to the next big MMO in GW 2 but their's (Zenimax - TESO) is a fan familiar IP in The Elder Scrolls franchise. If you watch the video above or any other footage from E3 you should get a sense of this as well. I could have sworn that some journalist in an article questioned a developer from TESO about it being similar to GW 2 and he responded by claiming that some of the ideas shared with GW 2 was implemented prior to Guild Wars 2 being in development which is just utter BS.

I was gonna go on in this section how they (Zenimax) did not display any footage to the public (at E3 2012) of the game considering it is going to be out in 2013 yet are puzzled as to why it got a mixed reception BUT it kinda makes sense doesn't it? If they showed footage of their game revealing the similarities to GW 2, wouldn't that cause a bit of an uproar? GW 2 is expected to launch this year and TESO is slated to launch by April-May 2013.
All said, I do hope for the best for TESO. I do feel that some of their implementations are what is needed for the next generation of MMOs. Still, I can't help but feel that they are slighting ArenaNet and GW 2 in various ways. Guess I am a GW 2 fanboi but I do not see passion from the game devs at Zenimax.

Update - Added link that was brought to my interest :

---------- Post added 2012-06-17 at 02:18 AM ----------

Can't post associated links to the original post, google if interested =\

[jmacphee9]

I am not a big Elder Scrolls fan and have not played a single game within that franchise but cannot help but feel that this game seems to stray off the gameplay of the original series quite a bit.

stopped reading after that.... so early in it dev that most of your points are worthless imo.

[Gunther]

You haven't even played the game or any elder scroll games in the matter yet found the need to comment on it and to make it worse you have a problem when gaming companies use other games ideas. These ideas have all been copied or cloned some way or another, I would look forward to how they improved the idea instead

[jmacphee9]

lets not forget that the game has been in development for quite some time already, 3 years i believe, it is more then safe to say that many of these ideas werent stolen from GW2, and if they are i really dont give a shit, make a good MMO, i dont care where anything came from. im not saying it will be good or bad but if the game as a whole is good i really dont care where they got there ideas from.

[Agent Mercury]

Also the cross class deal is not in GW2 so that point is moot.

[jmacphee9]

Also the cross class deal is not in GW2 so that point is moot.

which is by far the "big deal" with the elder scrolls online, this is the point they are going to play off of the most.

[Shadzta]

they said at E3 its been in development for 5 years. It was on a yogcast video on youtube. Either way 99% of mmo's today are lacking appeal in my opinion...but I have one in particular im keen on and i have my reasons why but i wont mention which one for fear of flame war =P

[Daverid]

I agree with Jmacphee ... Your completely entitled to your opinion... But if you've:

A. Never played a SP Elder Scrolls game
B. Haven't gone near an Alpha or Beta test.
C. Only got extremely limited information to base the game off

I don't really see your opinion at all worthy of any kind of recognition. I didn't start bothering to read people's opinions about SWTOR OR GW2 OR even Rift UNTIL there was actually legitimate players in a Beta Test.

Atm all we've got to go off is : PVP Focus, Combat will be 'Skill Shot' based like in SP Elder Scrolls, 3 Factions and a few other minor details. It's hardly enough to make massive conclusions and predictions off of.

[sugarlily]

My husband & I were just reading about this in our new Game Informer. I have LOVED all of the Elder Scrolls I've played & wondered before if it could fit into an MMO type of mold or would it feel shoe-horned into it & possibly break what makes the game(s) so great?

I am willing to give it a go & hope the powers in charge do it justice <3

[andrewwk]

stopped reading after that.... so early in it dev that most of your points are worthless imo.

I don't get you. You say you stopped reading after, 'I am not a big Elder Scrolls fan and have not played a single game within that franchise but cannot help but feel that this game seems to stray off the gameplay of the original series quite a bit.', yet go on to post two more times.

Hmmm.....

[foxHeart]

It was really only a matter of time before EoS attempted an mmo, so I'm keeping an eye on it, but really just out of a sense of morbid curiosity. I expect the game to bomb. The single strength EoS has always been its story, not the horribly simple gameplay or the class "balance". Both of those are integral to a good mmo and a personalized, immersive story experience is essentially impossible in the mmo setting, so in my opinion they're already pretty much boned. Now take all of those flaws and throw them into the mmo stew with the amount of bugs that are always present in EoS games and it's just doomed to fail as far as I'm concerned. I expect the game to sell decently at launch like most EoS games have done the past few sequels, but it can't last as an mmo.

[tru]

I don't get you. You say you stopped reading after, 'I am not a big Elder Scrolls fan and have not played a single game within that franchise but cannot help but feel that this game seems to stray off the gameplay of the original series quite a bit.', yet go on to post two more times.

Hmmm.....

Thats what you come back with? I agree with jmacphee9's first response you know nothing about the games so everything you say after first couple lines is a fallacy. Why did you even bother making this thread? Trying to start a flame war or what? The people behind the elder scrolls games know what they are doing and have always made great games.

[andrewwk]

You haven't even played the game or any elder scroll games in the matter yet found the need to comment on it and to make it worse you have a problem when gaming companies use other games ideas. These ideas have all been copied or cloned some way or another, I would look forward to how they improved the idea instead

Any gamer SHOULD be upset when an up and coming MMO using a popular IP is just 'taking ideas' and slapping TESO on the product. They should at least try and improve on some of the aspects and not just one single game mechanic. I can think of three that they have that differs from other MMOs : in-game compass, blocking and crouching for all classes, and electing an emperor for your faction side. Do these 3 implementations completely market the game? Lol, no. Yes the game is still in development but it is supposed to be released by next year.

Look at the MMOFPS scene with Dust 514, Defiance, and Planetside 2. Those 3 games are quite amazing in their own way.

Look at WildStar. I am not enthralled by that game but they (the developers) at least tried to make a very different game from the WoW clones. The PvE concepts executed in the game make it intriguing to most.

---------- Post added 2012-06-17 at 03:10 AM ----------

Also the cross class deal is not in GW2 so that point is moot.

Cross class ability mechanics are in GW 2

[Thelxi]

Every MMO steals features from previous or even current (in WoW's case) games.

[andrewwk]

I agree with Jmacphee ... Your completely entitled to your opinion... But if you've:

A. Never played a SP Elder Scrolls game
B. Haven't gone near an Alpha or Beta test.
C. Only got extremely limited information to base the game off

I don't really see your opinion at all worthy of any kind of recognition. I didn't start bothering to read people's opinions about SWTOR OR GW2 OR even Rift UNTIL there was actually legitimate players in a Beta Test.

Atm all we've got to go off is : PVP Focus, Combat will be 'Skill Shot' based like in SP Elder Scrolls, 3 Factions and a few other minor details. It's hardly enough to make massive conclusions and predictions off of.

I find it a bit ironic that Elder Scrolls fans here attack me for not playing any of the games related to the franchise yet it is the fanbase of Elder Scrolls that has criticized Zenimax (leading to reported 'mixed reviews' among the fans) for straying too far from the original gameplay that was experienced in the series.

'Combat will be 'Skill Shot' based like in SP Elder Scrolls' ; from what I have read, the fans of the original Elder Scrolls games are disappointed with the tab targeting and hotbar approach that the MMO will implement.

It's hardly enough to make massive conclusions and predictions off of.

I partially agree but again this game is gonna be released by next year. Why so conservative in releasing more details of the game let alone gameplay footage to the public.

---------- Post added 2012-06-17 at 03:20 AM ----------

It was really only a matter of time before EoS attempted an mmo, so I'm keeping an eye on it, but really just out of a sense of morbid curiosity. I expect the game to bomb. The single strength EoS has always been its story, not the horribly simple gameplay or the class "balance". Both of those are integral to a good mmo and a personalized, immersive story experience is essentially impossible in the mmo setting, so in my opinion they're already pretty much boned. Now take all of those flaws and throw them into the mmo stew with the amount of bugs that are always present in EoS games and it's just doomed to fail as far as I'm concerned. I expect the game to sell decently at launch like most EoS games have done the past few sequels, but it can't last as an mmo.

I think this post is an average assessment of this game thus far amongst gamers.

[Gunther]

(the developers) at least tried to make a very different game from the WoW clones.

Ye, you won't get much positive response from this forum after that statement.. WoW itself is a clone of EQ

Any gamer who gets upsets over cloning are young kids or call of duty fans, Also It's when they don't add those "ideas" to the game it's a problem due to it's lack of features. You don't change something that has proven to work but at this point it will be impossible to explain anything since you think "zomg WoW clone 11111!!!!"

PS: Need more knowledgeable players and less wannabe gamers

[andrewwk]

Thats what you come back with? I agree with jmacphee9's first response you know nothing about the games so everything you say after first couple lines is a fallacy. Why did you even bother making this thread? Trying to start a flame war or what? The people behind the elder scrolls games know what they are doing and have always made great games.

Come back with what? Are we arguing or discussing? If you read my original post and took it in, you would know why I started this post. The people behind TESO are not the same folks at Bethesda who made/make the single player series of Elder Scrolls games that players are familiar with. Zenimax is developing TESO.

[Master Guns]

Someone who has never played a TES game and isn't a fan making a thread about TESO? I lol'd.

Morrowind - 2000 hours
Oblivion - 1000 hours
Skyrim - 400 hours (so far, still playing daily)

I gotta say, you have no idea what you're talking about. TESO is not made by Bethesda Game Studios therefore derives nothing gameplay wise from the Elder Scrolls games. This game is being made by Zenimax, it has no affiliation with the single player Elder Scrolls games, therefore it doesn't have to play anything like them. Almost none of the people involved with this game are involved with the single player games, two entirely different studios and teams, including no Todd Howard.

[andrewwk]

Every MMO steals features from previous or even current (in WoW's case) games.

I don't think you read my OP.

---------- Post added 2012-06-17 at 03:32 AM ----------

Ye, you won't get much positive response from this forum after that statement.. WoW itself is a clone of EQ

Any gamer who gets upsets over cloning are young kids or call of duty fans, Also It's when they don't add those "ideas" to the game it's a problem due to it's lack of features. You don't change something that has proven to work but at this point it will be impossible to explain anything since you think "zomg WoW clone 11111!!!!"

PS: Need more knowledgeable players and less wannabe gamers

You didn't disclose the full quote. When you quote it that way you make it seem like I am talking about TESO being a WoW Clone which I did not state.

Here is the full quote :

'Look at WildStar. I am not enthralled by that game but they (the developers) at least tried to make a very different game from the WoW clones. The PvE concepts executed in the game make it intriguing to most.'

Wildstar is a game that got some criticism by gaming media for looking cartoonish in it's graphics but they explained it is to help reach to a broad audience of users with differing computer system builds ... similar to WoW in that regard.

'You don't change something that has proven to work', oh look I can do it too. How has SWToR been going lately? Oh F2P soon? Cool

Buddy, stick to scrubbing it up in D3. Fail games attract failures, heh.

---------- Post added 2012-06-17 at 03:35 AM ----------

Someone who has never played a TES game and isn't a fan making a thread about TESO? I lol'd.

Morrowind - 2000 hours
Oblivion - 1000 hours
Skyrim - 400 hours (so far, still playing daily)

I gotta say, you have no idea what you're talking about. TESO is not made by Bethesda Game Studios therefore derives nothing gameplay wise from the Elder Scrolls games. This game is being made by Zenimax, it has no affiliation with the single player Elder Scrolls games, therefore it doesn't have to play anything like them. Almost none of the people involved with this game are involved with the single player games, two entirely different studios and teams, including no Todd Howard.

It seems that a number of users on this forum fail at reading threads in their entirety. If you had read before you posted or at least reviewed your post before running off to WoW...

Just look at the post above yours.

[Master Guns]

"before running off to WoW"? I don't even know what that means. I haven't played WoW in a fortnight.