[pvp]Are you satisfied with warlock's PVP?Nothing to say now?

[shinewaylee]

This afternoon,I had all kinds of classes Pvp with me.I'm not a master,but should I fail so easily with them abviously?
Yes,I admit that dk and rogue are difficult for us to beat,but why they also can choose undead racial? why this talent can cancel our fear as well as Seduction?Why my undead talent can do nothing at all?
In 60s,fear does not decline,but today it declines and even declines with Seduction.What is the meaning of its existence?We are too op so that in can weaken us?
I have to say,with this talent ,mage , dk, rogue,hunter perhaps the new class,they may beat us easily.I can accept one or two classes restraint us,but a whole racial?That's terrible,and unfair to us.

[savvasp]

I'm not quite sure what you just said , but I think you're complaining about Will of the Forsaken being too overpower for us and people can counter us in duels only because of it ?

I'm sorry but no . WotF is decent but it's not gamebreaking at all . We only have a couple of anti-classes (which are beatable) . And fear shares DR with Seduction else that thing would be insanely overpowered really . Now you're forced to choose .

WotF is not unfair to warlocks at all

[shinewaylee]

I'm not quite sure what you just said , but I think you're complaining about Will of the Forsaken being too overpower for us and people can counter us in duels only because of it ?

I'm sorry but no . WotF is decent but it's not gamebreaking at all . We only have a couple of anti-classes (which are beatable) . And fear shares DR with Seduction else that thing would be insanely overpowered really . Now you're forced to choose .

WotF is not unfair to warlocks at all

Why it is fair to us? Forsaken can only cancel fear and seduction that everyone can use if they are undead.

[savvasp]

Why it is fair to us? Forsaken can only cancel fear and seduction that everyone can use if they are undead.

It's fair because it's not gamebreaking . Having the ability to remove fear/seduce every 2 min which also puts your trinket on a 30 sec cd doesn't deserve a nerf .

There are racials like Every man for himself that give an extra trinket slot , stoneform that removes bleeds/poisons and reduces damage taken and even those 2 aren't overpowered . WotF shouldn't be removed or nerfed . It's already been nerfed to shit

[shinewaylee]

It's fair because it's not gamebreaking . Having the ability to remove fear/seduce every 2 min which also puts your trinket on a 30 sec cd doesn't deserve a nerf .

There are racials like Every man for himself that give an extra trinket slot , stoneform that removes bleeds/poisons and reduces damage taken and even those 2 aren't overpowered . WotF shouldn't be removed or nerfed . It's already been nerfed to shit

You think it's fair and has been nerfed.OK.please change it that can remove mage's polymorph and rogue's sap.I think it's fair and not op,too.

[Deleted]

WotF removes Fear, Charm, Sleep on a 2 min CD with 30 sec shared trinket CD.
Blink removes a Stun (!!) on a 15 sec CD and does not share a CD with a trinket.

hmm... yes one is a racial, the other one is a class ability. Still, I don't think WotF is op at all, as already said, they nerfed the shít out of it. You know that WotF used to make you immune to fear for 20 sec?

[Deleted]

locks are part of the most OP 3v3 and RBG setup at the moment, we are fine. duels are worthless for gauging PvP viability.

[kushlol]

In a duel setting it can definitely suck to deal with it especially against a rogue but in terms of team based pvp such as arena and rbg's it's right where it needs to be.The game is not and will never be balanced around 1v1.

[Brauhm]

PvP is useless unless its beyond 1v1. Classes are not balanced around one character but around 2-5 and balanced in a way that requires team work. As a lock, yeah fears are not what they used to be, but that's why we have death coil (its a horror and thus does not get removed by WoTF) and if you run a DR add on you know exactly when to use seduction again. Also, we have two slows, a knockback if you're using the succy, and a portal. I really... really don't understand why you're crying.

[wholol]

I think you need to change the name of your post, since you are talking about fear and wotf most of the time, and regarding the topic, fear has been one of the strongest CC ability in game in wow's younger years, so much that it was nerfed so many times, and so has wotf ( those who played vanilla / tbc prolly know what I'm talking about ).

Anyways, regardless of what has to be said here, it doesn't really matter since Mist is so close around the corner and the class is having a tremedous overhaul.

[shinewaylee]

In a duel setting it can definitely suck to deal with it especially against a rogue but in terms of team based pvp such as arena and rbg's it's right where it needs to be.The game is not and will never be balanced around 1v1.

I can understand in 3vs3 it's a balance when faced with warlock or priest,but it can remove seduction,which is absolutely a threat to warlock when we are in 1vs1.
Upstairs says mage can remove stun per 15s,yes ,but without Forsaken,we can easily cc them with our fear.
Upstairs also come up with immune to fear 20s, great,I completely agree.No fear,at least we can seduction them too.Warrior immunes fear,but we can beat them easily.That's the question.

[Cempa]

locks are part of the most OP 3v3 and RBG setup at the moment, we are fine. duels are worthless for gauging PvP viability.

I hate that and thats why I left WoW and will not come back until IT changes.

IT being the argument you put forward: I DO NOT PLAY 3v3 I WANT TO QUEUE SOLO AND DO AS WELL AS ANY OTHER CLASS SOLO!

[Deleted]

I hate that and thats why I left WoW and will not come back until IT changes.

IT being the argument you put forward: I DO NOT PLAY 3v3 I WANT TO QUEUE SOLO AND DO AS WELL AS ANY OTHER CLASS SOLO!

I don't really get what you mean queue solo. I queue solo for random BGs every day and leave a trail of broken and twisted corpses in my wake. do you mean you want to queue for duels, or 1v1 arena? you should give up lurking on WoW forums if that's the case because it will never, ever happen. not to mention that is a really precious and bratty response. who are you yelling at? PvP in WoW has never been 1v1, it's like you're having a tantrum and threatening to boycott the last FIFA game because there was no ice hockey in it.

[skitzin]

I hate that and thats why I left WoW and will not come back until IT changes.

IT being the argument you put forward: I DO NOT PLAY 3v3 I WANT TO QUEUE SOLO AND DO AS WELL AS ANY OTHER CLASS SOLO!

1v1 is 9/10 times a contest of who can out burst who. Some classes can, with the right cool downs available , drop someone in moments where as others need more times to get going (Read: afflic warlock) in return for steady, consistent damage. Trying to balance around 1v1 is almost next to impossible without running aground of "homogenisation reef".

OT
I honestly think you are making a case which doesn't really exist too much, warlocks are very strong in our pvp field of choice (3v3) with the ability to fit into almost any combination of classes and specs. Besides if someone uses WoTF to break fear or seduce, you can either recast till full DR or you can use it to pressure that player with a CC swap. Besides as others have pointed out WoTF used to be very, very strong in pvp (eg. shadow for dev. plague and wotf was really OP).

[Kashii]

I don't really get what you mean queue solo. I queue solo for random BGs every day and leave a trail of broken and twisted corpses in my wake. do you mean you want to queue for duels, or 1v1 arena? you should give up lurking on WoW forums if that's the case because it will never, ever happen. not to mention that is a really precious and bratty response. who are you yelling at? PvP in WoW has never been 1v1, it's like you're having a tantrum and threatening to boycott the last FIFA game because there was no ice hockey in it.

What he means is that the entire world of PvP doesn't revolve around a 3v3 arena. Locks are awesome with a pocket healer but other awesome classes don't have that same requirement to be awesome. You can certainly queue solo into a BG and be successful if you happen to have a decent pug healer (or two) or if you aren't getting focused...at all. Otherwise it is not so awesome.

And I really dislike when players (or devs) go on about how PvP has never been about 1v1. I seriously have to question whether such people have ever stepped foot in a battle ground, where there are multiple instances when a 1v1 encounter breaks out as a part of the match. Why should it have to be 2 (lock + healer) vs. 1 (DK for example) in order to be a fair fight?

[Brauhm]

What he means is that the entire world of PvP doesn't revolve around a 3v3 arena. Locks are awesome with a pocket healer but other awesome classes don't have that same requirement to be awesome. You can certainly queue solo into a BG and be successful if you happen to have a decent pug healer (or two) or if you aren't getting focused...at all. Otherwise it is not so awesome.

And I really dislike when players (or devs) go on about how PvP has never been about 1v1. I seriously have to question whether such people have ever stepped foot in a battle ground, where there are multiple instances when a 1v1 encounter breaks out as a part of the match. Why should it have to be 2 (lock + healer) vs. 1 (DK for example) in order to be a fair fight?

"Smart" Bging will almost never have you in a 1v1 stance, but you need to remember that if its 3v3 or 5v5, locks have a HUGE advantage with how easy it is to multi-dot. A lock is in the top teams right now specifically because of the pressure they can apply to everyone and it makes us amazing, because of that we're squishy and weak when alone, this is a fair compromise

[Kashii]

"Smart" Bging will almost never have you in a 1v1 stance, but you need to remember that if its 3v3 or 5v5, locks have a HUGE advantage with how easy it is to multi-dot. A lock is in the top teams right now specifically because of the pressure they can apply to everyone and it makes us amazing, because of that we're squishy and weak when alone, this is a fair compromise

Sadly you don't always get to pick your fight in a BG. Have you never been separated from the pack? Real life happens, even in an MMO.

[Itisamuh]

"Smart" Bging will almost never have you in a 1v1 stance, but you need to remember that if its 3v3 or 5v5, locks have a HUGE advantage with how easy it is to multi-dot. A lock is in the top teams right now specifically because of the pressure they can apply to everyone and it makes us amazing, because of that we're squishy and weak when alone, this is a fair compromise

No, warlocks are good in one bracket (3v3) because of exactly 2 tools: UA (dispel protection) and portal (difficult kill target.) That's it. That doesn't mean they're good at PvP. Outside of the tiny arena boxes, portal isn't nearly as convenient because you can't always have one placed perfectly and know exactly when you'll get attacked in a BG or out in the world. And without a healer war, the UA dispel protection isn't that important either. So then it comes down to fighting and doing wimpy DOT damage that takes 30 seconds to do the damage that other classes can do in a couple globals, and it's even worse for Alliance warlocks (not that it affects me as Horde) because of how many people have WotF. Between WotF and trinket, fear is basically obsolete in a general 1v1 BG fight. And yes, 1v1 happens. The fact that it isn't forced doesn't change the fact that it's an issue how easily they're shut down when focused, and how their damage can be pretty much ignored.

Which is the point many warlocks have been trying to get across this whole expansion. Being good at 3v3 is irrelevant. Blizzard has said themselves, starting with Cataclysm, that they weren't balancing around arena anymore, including 3v3, because it's just too gimmicky, certain synergies are too good, and certain mechanics become mandatory (think MS when it was 50%.) And outside of the now irrelevant 3v3, warlocks are garbage. Sure, a good one can do fine. I'm a very experienced warlock and I do just fine with it for the most part, but the effort and awareness it takes to do well as a warlock is much higher than for just about any other DPS. And that's because, essentially, affliction isn't DPS anymore. It's multi-target CC support with terrible single target damage and horrible base survivability. And that isn't fun at all.

TLDR: Warlocks aren't fine. They're only okay in arena, or out with a pocket healer to keep them alive AND a pocket DPS to do the real damage for them. Stop basing everything off 3v3, noone cares about that anymore, including Blizzard. Arena won't ever be a good indication of balance.

[Brauhm]

No, warlocks are good in one bracket (3v3) because of exactly 2 tools: UA (dispel protection) and portal (difficult kill target.) That's it. That doesn't mean they're good at PvP. Outside of the tiny arena boxes, portal isn't nearly as convenient because you can't always have one placed perfectly and know exactly when you'll get attacked in a BG or out in the world. And without a healer war, the UA dispel protection isn't that important either. So then it comes down to fighting and doing wimpy DOT damage that takes 30 seconds to do the damage that other classes can do in a couple globals, and it's even worse for Alliance warlocks (not that it affects me as Horde) because of how many people have WotF. Between WotF and trinket, fear is basically obsolete in a general 1v1 BG fight. And yes, 1v1 happens. The fact that it isn't forced doesn't change the fact that it's an issue how easily they're shut down when focused, and how their damage can be pretty much ignored.

Which is the point many warlocks have been trying to get across this whole expansion. Being good at 3v3 is irrelevant. Blizzard has said themselves, starting with Cataclysm, that they weren't balancing around arena anymore, including 3v3, because it's just too gimmicky, certain synergies are too good, and certain mechanics become mandatory (think MS when it was 50%.) And outside of the now irrelevant 3v3, warlocks are garbage. Sure, a good one can do fine. I'm a very experienced warlock and I do just fine with it for the most part, but the effort and awareness it takes to do well as a warlock is much higher than for just about any other DPS. And that's because, essentially, affliction isn't DPS anymore. It's multi-target CC support with terrible single target damage and horrible base survivability. And that isn't fun at all.

TLDR: Warlocks aren't fine. They're only okay in arena, or out with a pocket healer to keep them alive AND a pocket DPS to do the real damage for them. Stop basing everything off 3v3, noone cares about that anymore, including Blizzard. Arena won't ever be a good indication of balance.

I would love to add you to real ID and then take you into a BG, where I'll go destruction and I can show you, in game, how good warlocks are at kiting, stunning, fearing, and doing damage all at the same time and then I'll do it again as affliction. I know I'm only /one/ person but warlocks can easily top charts and deal significant damage if they roll their spells correctly. I only used 3v3 as a reference but we're amazing in bgs and rated bgs and we're not too shabby in 5s either. Basically, our pvp isn't the best by a long shot, but its also no where near the worst. (Also, I don't know a single bg where you can't stratigically place a portal, even if you're assaulting a base, flag or attacking a flag carrier.. maybe I should write a BG pvp guide?)

Also, the only two classes I've seen do our dot damage in a "few" globals is a ret pally blowing all his cds. Dots tick rather hard and frequently and with using rath + cunning? or DTR? It's funny how fast people drop.

[shinewaylee]

You speaking that much,I do not still understand the reason why wotf can remove fear and seduction.I like 1vs1 battle and so far have 3000 times from last June. 1vs1 is one of PVP,why warlock don't have the right to share it ? Why? Must I turn to another class to get the right?