Can Someone Answer This?

[Kouki]

Ive been puzzling over this for a few hours, i want your input.

Since the invention of HudMap Addons, The feature they add to the game has Become Standard.

For most lazy gamer's myself included we just get the quest then look on the map kill whatever get our loot.
But this means we are not reading the story, most mmo's that you do this in feel boring after all your not getting into the story.

In SWTOR
I got into doing quests again, it was fun because it was voiced and i never skiped a single Voice over scene.
Except when skiped by the gm during raids or whatnot.

In TERA
Things got worse, the quest system was marks on a map there were 3 maps a hud a mini and a world map.
And most of the quests were just go kill something so it got old fast. especially the repeatable ones.

In Guildwars2
I just wandered all over killing whatever monsters helping whatever npc's and going in no particular order or path through the zones.
Even wandering to places above my level.
I know they don't do questing the same, you dont pick up complete drop off a quest, and they do circle the events on your map when your nearby.
But not once did i feel like it was grindy, and i just cant put my finger on why.

What do you think mmo champ, why was it that i had fun in this one game and in all the rest it felt so grindy it put me to sleep?

[Mizzow]

Because you've done it all before, the frist time you feel interested by it, after that you relate all other quests to the types you first played, and they become uninteresting

[Kouki]

Because you've done it all before, the frist time you feel interested by it, after that you relate all other quests to the types you first played, and they become uninteresting

Then i should have had fun in all the games when they were new and almost instantly i got bored in TERA, and after a month SWTOR got boring. If Swtor is just a wow clone it should have been boring much sooner.

So why was swtor fun and guildwars2 the most fun ive had in an mmo in ever, what feature of its gameplay or quest design was the reason?

[Deleted]

It's called opinion, and everybody has a different one (unless they are paid/brainwashed into having a particular one). Go back 15 years to MUDs and other basic computer games like Gauntlet. There were no quests, everything was just a grind for XP.

Remember, everything in a game is make-work. Nothing they provide you is truly enjoyable, it is just there to delay you from realising you are not really enjoying yourself and quit the game. To really have fun you have to find your own things to do, that is why PVP is the only model that has true sustainability. That is why Chess is still going after all these years. Every game is new.

Why is farmville so successful, it's designed to be addictive. There's been so many posts about this. You are given items, you invest time, it makes it hard to stop playing. I found that once I finally quit playing WoW, I have found it nearly impossible to get into any game again. I gave up years of investment into WoW, and realise that while it was fun while it lasted, there is now no point ever investing so heavily in any other game again. So I play 2-player co-op games, I dabble in each new MMO that comes out for a few months, never getting attached to them.

Games built around a great questing experience won't last, as you can only really do them once, and there's also so much pressure to get to max level when the 'real' game begins. So until somebody figures out this and a way around it, all the games will follow this formula.

This is why I was looking forward so much for a Warhammer 40k MMO, hoping that it's leveling process would be 100% group mission based content, and no or little solo grinding "kill 1,000 rippers" quests.

I have been playing the Dust 514 Beta, and without giving anything away, I think it will be successful because it's so different to any other MMO.

[Meliaz]

This is posted for you Kouki but with an audience in mind.

I've only watched you play Tera and SWTOR but WOW was the first MMO I've played and the only MMO I spent a lot of time on. There is nothing left for me to explore or achieve as my priorities dictate (I can't speak for anyone else), within Azeroth. However, I've played the Guild Wars 2 beta. And I can say for myself that guild wars 2 is exciting because of the (anticipation) new world, different class play styles, and (what feels to me) intuitive questing.

Tera and SWTOR wasn't very appealing to me, let me emphasize, TO ME because it looked like something I've seen before. Tera and swtor appear rigid. IDK.

[Kouki]

It's called opinion, and everybody has a different one (unless they are paid/brainwashed into having a particular one). Go back 15 years to MUDs and other basic computer games like Gauntlet. There were no quests, everything was just a grind for XP.

Remember, everything in a game is make-work. Nothing they provide you is truly enjoyable, it is just there to delay you from realising you are not really enjoying yourself and quit the game. To really have fun you have to find your own things to do, that is why PVP is the only model that has true sustainability. That is why Chess is still going after all these years. Every game is new.

Why is farmville so successful, it's designed to be addictive. There's been so many posts about this. You are given items, you invest time, it makes it hard to stop playing. I found that once I finally quit playing WoW, I have found it nearly impossible to get into any game again. I gave up years of investment into WoW, and realise that while it was fun while it lasted, there is now no point ever investing so heavily in any other game again. So I play 2-player co-op games, I dabble in each new MMO that comes out for a few months, never getting attached to them.

Games built around a great questing experience won't last, as you can only really do them once, and there's also so much pressure to get to max level when the 'real' game begins. So until somebody figures out this and a way around it, all the games will follow this formula.

This is why I was looking forward so much for a Warhammer 40k MMO, hoping that it's leveling process would be 100% group mission based content, and no or little solo grinding "kill 1,000 rippers" quests.

I have been playing the Dust 514 Beta, and without giving anything away, I think it will be successful because it's so different to any other MMO.

Yes but what im trying to say is.

After 7 years i got bored of wow's questing system, i tried swtor it was fun, Tera was boring even more than wow as far as questing. Guildwars2 was fun as well.
But i know why Tera was boring and why swtor was fun, and i cant explain why guildwars2 was fun.

[Deleted]

Because SWTOR is different to WoW, Tera isn't. I can't speak for GW2 because I have not played it. If Tera had NO quests, none whatsoever, just areas of increasing monster level, I don't think the game would be much different. The 'quests' in the game are absolutely rudimentary and only serve to allow the advertisement of quests on their website. They also provide useful loot upgrades. Tera's success will not be because of it's quest system, but because of it's combat and pvp/gvg system.

So to answer your question SWTOR = good quests (most notably the imperial agent and bounty hunter), Tera = VERY bad quests (but fun playstyle) GW2 = can't comment.

EDIT: I'd like to add a small story, for reference. After I leveled a paladin and mage in WoW, I decided to do a druid. I picked mining and skinning as professions and did about 50 quests all the way to level 60. I spent the entire time in yeti caves grinding them, skinning them and mining ores. I did this during the day and raided on mage at night (was unemployed) and dinged 60 in just under 2 weeks, with 1500 gold in the bank, to buy my epic mount right away (which was a rare thing back then). It was extremely efficient, but terribly boring. But it's something you can do if you know that there will be an end and if you know that when the end comes, you have lots to do when you get there.

If there was a game that had 0 quests, just grinding out levels of exp, but the gameplay was fun and the intention was that there would be so much to do at max level that it didn't matter that the first 2 weeks of playing was boring, then it would be okay.

[Kouki]

Because SWTOR is different to WoW, Tera isn't. I can't speak for GW2 because I have not played it. If Tera had NO quests, none whatsoever, just areas of increasing monster level, I don't think the game would be much different. The 'quests' in the game are absolutely rudimentary and only serve to allow the advertisement of quests on their website. They also provide useful loot upgrades. Tera's success will not be because of it's quest system, but because of it's combat and pvp/gvg system.

So to answer your question SWTOR = good quests (most notably the imperial agent and bounty hunter), Tera = VERY bad quests (but fun playstyle) GW2 = can't comment.

EDIT: I'd like to add a small story, for reference. After I leveled a paladin and mage in WoW, I decided to do a druid. I picked mining and skinning as professions and did about 50 quests all the way to level 60. I spent the entire time in yeti caves grinding them, skinning them and mining ores. I did this during the day and raided on mage at night (was unemployed) and dinged 60 in just under 2 weeks, with 1500 gold in the bank, to buy my epic mount right away (which was a rare thing back then). It was extremely efficient, but terribly boring. But it's something you can do if you know that there will be an end and if you know that when the end comes, you have lots to do when you get there.

If there was a game that had 0 quests, just grinding out levels of exp, but the gameplay was fun and the intention was that there would be so much to do at max level that it didn't matter that the first 2 weeks of playing was boring, then it would be okay.

First i must disagree on Swtor, its the same as wow Warriors even can copy their macros over.

I Can find Grind fun in some Games.

Maplestory there are no quests past 35, other than hey new zone got patched in go see it.
The game is a grind for exp and loot and the level cap is 200 dying costs 5% exp.

Maplestory was fun though, the combat style and the art the music its got something i cant explain that makes it fun.

When it comes to Rift wow and Swtor the quests are basically the same, they have kill 10 escorts toss bears out of trees etc.
But swtor has a voiced quest npc system and personal choice options, this was fun for me at least.

Tera is just grind kill 10 then 20 then 30 of that mob, no voiced work just old school maps point where to go.
And a wall of text.

Guild wars 2 does not have a wall of text or a voice over for the quests, they just have things going on that you get involved in and help out.
But if you look at it from another angle it is really just running all over grinding on mobs till you level up, but for some reason like maplestory its fun.

[Gavril]

In GW2 you are reacting to events which have a certain energy to them or goal right there that you can focus on finishing and lazy people like reaction over preemption

[vep]

So why was swtor fun and guildwars2 the most fun ive had in an mmo in ever, what feature of its gameplay or quest design was the reason?

There are many aspects of GW2 that appeal to people.
First and foremost: you can do whatever you feel like. There's no set path through the zone. There's no "Oh damn, I got to kill 10 of these but I can't be annoyed!".
Second: combined with the first, GW2's gameplay takes it one step further, I'd say. Everything is slick and tight. The controls are responsive.
Third: when traveling, you get the feeling the world is doing it's own thing and doesn't care wether you are there or not. Take a look at Divinity's Reach, it's a bloody massive city. And it's not like Stormwind, where you see 10 npc's running around and that's that. There's really loads of npc's doing their own thing.
Fourth: this relates to the third point; the world is huge. There are no flying mounts so you can't just go like "Oh, look, some pretty scenery, that's cool". It's more like "OMG this looks so awesome and so huge!"

Hope this conveys my opinion properly!

[Itisamuh]

The voice acting in SWTOR helps, of course, but I think it's the story itself that sets it apart. It's more like an epic single player RPG than an MMO. In most MMO's, including WoW, you're just one of many grunts, lower on the totem pole than city guards, doing a bunch of errands, seeing the various aspects of the story but not really affecting it all that much. And even when you do, it's typically aiding a more powerful character in their mission. In SWTOR, you're THE hero of the story. Whatever class you play, its story unfolds and you're one of, if not the most important character in the lore of that time, related to the class. The companions, dialogue choices and voice acting helps too, integrating you into it much more than in most of the other MMO's. I haven't played GW, so I can't comment on it. I have to say though, while I love the quest giving itself in SWTOR, the actual gameplay felt more grindy to me than even WoW. I think it was because of how the MOB's are always in the same groups of three of four.

[Kouki]

The voice acting in SWTOR helps, of course, but I think it's the story itself that sets it apart. It's more like an epic single player RPG than an MMO. In most MMO's, including WoW, you're just one of many grunts, lower on the totem pole than city guards, doing a bunch of errands, seeing the various aspects of the story but not really affecting it all that much. And even when you do, it's typically aiding a more powerful character in their mission. In SWTOR, you're THE hero of the story. Whatever class you play, its story unfolds and you're one of, if not the most important character in the lore of that time, related to the class. The companions, dialogue choices and voice acting helps too, integrating you into it much more than in most of the other MMO's. I haven't played GW, so I can't comment on it. I have to say though, while I love the quest giving itself in SWTOR, the actual gameplay felt more grindy to me than even WoW. I think it was because of how the MOB's are always in the same groups of three of four.

I liked the voice acting but when it came to the second or 3rd run of a dungeon it was more of a speed bump.

[Newbryn]

When the focus of the game is you rushing through it as fast as possible then that is where the grindy feeling comes from, but with that said I don't feel mmos tell their story properly I don't want to read text quest or cutscens in an mmo, I feel all the story should be told by the world alone you only need to design the world in such a way that it tells the story.

[Deleted]

I feel all the story should be told by the world alone you only need to design the world in such a way that it tells the story.

EVE Online

[Cybran]

What do you think mmo champ, why was it that i had fun in this one game and in all the rest it felt so grindy it put me to sleep?

Because you are blinded by the Hype, when you do the 5 total dungeons you will be bored again and start whining how boring the game is. MMOs need end game content and GW2 is not offering it.

[Newbryn]

EVE Online

I've heard good things about it but never played it myself, i don't hate sci-fi in fact i love it I usually prefer when both sci-fi and fantasy mingle together, but with that said ship combat doesn't interest me, unless I'm misinformed.

[Deleted]

I've heard good things about it but never played it myself, i don't hate sci-fi in fact i love it I usually prefer when both sci-fi and fantasy mingle together, but with that said ship combat doesn't interest me, unless I'm misinformed.

It has been called Excel Online (Excel: The Game) and many other things, and most of them are very true. But what people forget is that it's possibly what it would turn out if real. All battles would be won by computing power and preparation, and less by individual skill. I would consider it very similar to a game of Magic: The Gathering. Yes there's player skill involved, but usually the outcome of the game is determined before the first card is pulled, based on the decks each player has build.

But EVE is totally different in that you do not get XP for anything, and your skills simply progress over time, so there is no questing or grinding for levels, you just chose a path of advancement and your character progresses down it.

It's not for everyone.

[Newbryn]

It has been called Excel Online (Excel: The Game) and many other things, and most of them are very true. But what people forget is that it's possibly what it would turn out if real. All battles would be won by computing power and preparation, and less by individual skill. I would consider it very similar to a game of Magic: The Gathering. Yes there's player skill involved, but usually the outcome of the game is determined before the first card is pulled, based on the decks each player has build.

But EVE is totally different in that you do not get XP for anything, and your skills simply progress over time, so there is no questing or grinding for levels, you just chose a path of advancement and your character progresses down it.

It's not for everyone.

Understandable I may give it a fair shot when I get the chance and free up some HD space.

[Kouki]

Because you are blinded by the Hype, when you do the 5 total dungeons you will be bored again and start whining how boring the game is. MMOs need end game content and GW2 is not offering it.

5? There are 30 A total of 10 dungeons at launch and each has 3 explorable modes after that is the story mode so its more then 30 dungeons.

End game content? really you enjoy waiting 6 months for patches while still paying for what you already beat?

[Deleted]

No walls of questing text and no certain order you do the quests in, is what made Guild Wars 2 extremely fun for me. Besides the fact that there's a thousand ways to get experience and level, the dynamic events just feel way more fun. You can just run around in whatever direction and suddenly be in the middle of a group event.