1.0.3 - Easy more inferno - How do you feel?

[ComputerNerd]

They just balanced it.
You can't have that friking difficulty difference between Act1 and Act2, 3 and 4. It was retarded.

Also it's not like you're going to gear up for 2 days...you know.. Diablo..RNG..

P.s.: You can sit in arcane shits even now, so its nP

The level difficulty itself was not the issue, but more that gearing up for an act often involved farming that act on another character, one that had a significantly lower gear requirement.
Farming gear to progress in the next act should be viable on any class, and be viable from the prior act.

[SurrealNight]

Jailer is a terrible mechanic, designed purely because Blizzard are lazy, it cannot be avoided, it simply hits you. Freeze however, with the orbs, is a very good mechanic that does roughly the same thing, but you can avoid it if you're smart. It's these kinds of things that instead of allow builds to become actual builds and instead simply focus on maximum damage/maximum defence.

Do have to agree with you on that point, of course as a DH Jailer doesn't bother me cause of Smoke Screen. It is a bit more interesting mechanic cause it gives you something to dodge within a reasonable reaction.

I can tell you that some DH do specifically decide to build "glass cannons" cause they look at the gear needed to make a tankier DH and figured they would just go balls out and kill as much crap as they could before they ran out of Disc and died. I'd much rather have a more robust character but I don't have the gold for it right now.

[Deleted]

So you are saying that if you spend 25m on gear you should be immune to deaths?

Yes i should die if im playing bad. right now i can play bad and live. You dont see a problem with that?

I don't think you have only 25m worth of gear atm, unless you didn't change anything and /or got those 25m yesterday. Eventually you WILL overgear everything, even pre nerf.
Ofc there is a problem with not being able to die. I just don't know if it is a general "problem" or you just overgear stuff.

Anyway that's besides the point. If they overnerfed it, we'll see it soon enough.
My point was that unless you got lucky with the drops (you and a number of other people here) you faced a brick wall countless times. That could be fixed by gear drops sure, but at the same time, playing solo, some elite/champions were simply unbeatable.
Not by mechanics, but by sheer damage. It is no fun having to skip 3 packs in a row then to be forced to restart the game because a 4th unbeatable pack stands at your objective. If you could defeat those by using skills, then by all means, revert the nerfs :P

So to switch your argument around:
Yes I should die if i play bad, but should i die because of oneshot mechanics? Because of retarded combinations for some classes?
While trying to progress in act 2 for the first couple of times, my though was "hey, is this a diablo game or am i raiding in Wow?". Mind you I don't mind tactics, I do mind however ridiculous gear checks!

[Redblade]

Meh.

I thought it'd even out Act 3's difficulty a bit for my Wizard and Monk....nope, no change. Monk still takes forever to kill white mobs, and elites still take 6-8 minutes of kiting to kill on my wizard. Damage was only reduced slightly.

Sure, they lowered mob HP a bit, but at the same time, nerfed the fuck out of our DPS. My wizard went from 39k to 30k. =/

Bold part is your issue, really low DPS for act 3 to be fair, I farm it pre-nerf with 65k and then it's alright.

[Inval1d]

I'm a DH making my way through a1 inferno. With ~20k life and ~300 resist all, I die constantly..

DH are mainly glass cannons. Looking at your statement I assume your dps is subpar. You deserve to die for playing like you do.

[Vook]

Bold part is your issue, really low DPS for act 3 to be fair, I farm it pre-nerf with 65k and then it's alright.

I don't have 10mil gold to buy 1200 dps 1handers, sorry.

Though hopefully, with enough luck, I can get a decent one to drop in act 1 now...

[Deleted]

Most demon hunters and wizards are glass cannons with low vitality, zero resistances and huge damage. They kill fast, and die if they get hit, thus they require skill in pre-empting the hits with Smoke Screen and Teleport and whatnot. So yes, right now, at least people playing those two classes can build for pure damage, and do build for pure damage.



I would just like to say that in my personal opinion Jailer is an awesome mechanic, and as far as I know each class has a way of getting out of it.



Jailer doesn't deal damage, Frozen does. I'm pretty sure that's why it can be avoided by walking away from it, while Jailer can't. Both are well designed, though, and go extremely well together.

Haha, you are quite the card my friend. let me explain stuff to you.


1) DH and Wizards are glass cannons - they are compared to barbarians and Monks(debatable really) but they still go full hog in maxing as much Vit and Resistances as you can, You see, you obviously did not pay attention to what I said, you cannot BUILD to be a glass cannon because the game forces you to be the generic-Hunter or the Generic-Wizard who maxes his defenses and his damage at equal turns. You cannot sacrifice your health for damage for example.

2) I find jailer a good mechanic - you're narrow sighted then, you shouldn't NEED a specific way to get out of an ability, that just narrows the choices of abilities you have on your bar, that's something they strived to remove if I am correct. Jailer is a poor mechanic simply used as filler to make sure people who CAN have the skill to kite get a needless roadblock.

3) Frozen and Jailer work together - wrong, stacking a good mechanic that with skill can be avoided with a skill that is a terrible mechanic and cannot be avoided just makes a terrible roadblock of fake difficulty. As an example, imagine in a FPS there was an enemy with a gun that could kill you with headshot, seems fair right? Now let's add in a random ability that makes you totally stand still and makes your head huge, you cannot avoid this. That is an unfair and petty game mechanic.

---------- Post added 2012-06-19 at 09:25 PM ----------

I can tell you that some DH do specifically decide to build "glass cannons" cause they look at the gear needed to make a tankier DH and figured they would just go balls out and kill as much crap as they could before they ran out of Disc and died. I'd much rather have a more robust character but I don't have the gold for it right now.

Thats not much a design choice but bad balanced for the DH class itself though.

[flam]

Meh.

I thought it'd even out Act 3's difficulty a bit for my Wizard and Monk....nope, no change. Monk still takes forever to kill white mobs, and elites still take 6-8 minutes of kiting to kill on my wizard. Damage was only reduced slightly.

Sure, they lowered mob HP a bit, but at the same time, nerfed the fuck out of our DPS. My wizard went from 39k to 30k. =/

45k to 28k :/
They fixed the 'tree' to get the ponies stuck in whimsysire, and because MF no longer effects chests vases pots etc, the clouds are worthless (imo) All in all, I'm pissed, SUPER pissed.

[Papapwn]

I don't think you have only 25m worth of gear atm, unless you didn't change anything and /or got those 25m yesterday. Eventually you WILL overgear everything, even pre nerf.
Ofc there is a problem with not being able to die. I just don't know if it is a general "problem" or you just overgear stuff.

Anyway that's besides the point. If they overnerfed it, we'll see it soon enough.
My point was that unless you got lucky with the drops (you and a number of other people here) you faced a brick wall countless times. That could be fixed by gear drops sure, but at the same time, playing solo, some elite/champions were simply unbeatable.
Not by mechanics, but by sheer damage. It is no fun having to skip 3 packs in a row then to be forced to restart the game because a 4th unbeatable pack stands at your objective. If you could defeat those by using skills, then by all means, revert the nerfs :P

So to switch your argument around:
Yes I should die if i play bad, but should i die because of oneshot mechanics? Because of retarded combinations for some classes?
While trying to progress in act 2 for the first couple of times, my though was "hey, is this a diablo game or am i raiding in Wow?". Mind you I don't mind tactics, I do mind however ridiculous gear checks!

To answer your question is simple. They already addressed that issue with fixing gear drop rates. Fixing gear progression was fine. No one is complaining about that. And there were no ridiculous gear checks. If you read my post my avg gear ilvl is 60. ilvl 63 is the highest. I do have a couple ilvl 63 items but i do have lower ilvl items as well hence the average. There is no ridiculous gear checks. The problem was getting to a reasonable average gear ilvl was a problem due to drop rates.

[Deleted]

1) DH and Wizards are glass cannons - they are compared to barbarians and Monks(debatable really) but they still go full hog in maxing as much Vit and Resistances as you can, You see, you obviously did not pay attention to what I said, you cannot BUILD to be a glass cannon because the game forces you to be the generic-Hunter or the Generic-Wizard who maxes his defenses and his damage at equal turns. You cannot sacrifice your health for damage for example.

Most demon hunters and wizards in inferno act 3 and 4 have sacrificed vitality and resistances for damage. They're running with 20-25K health. That's just a fact, proven by a million different videos on Youtube of people killing end bosses and/or champions and a million different accounts from people themselves in forum threads stating the same, and so on. So yes, you CAN build to be a glass cannon, and people DO build to be glass cannons, and you CAN sacrifice health for damage, and people DO sacrifice health for damage.

Period.

2) I find jailer a good mechanic - you're narrow sighted then, you shouldn't NEED a specific way to get out of an ability, that just narrows the choices of abilities you have on your bar, that's something they strived to remove if I am correct. Jailer is a poor mechanic simply used as filler to make sure people who CAN have the skill to kite get a needless roadblock.

First of all, you're nobody to call me narrow sighted, so I guess that's that. Secondly, I think you're wrong, and we'll just have to agree to disagree.

3) Frozen and Jailer work together - wrong, stacking a good mechanic that with skill can be avoided with a skill that is a terrible mechanic and cannot be avoided just makes a terrible roadblock of fake difficulty. As an example, imagine in a FPS there was an enemy with a gun that could kill you with headshot, seems fair right? Now let's add in a random ability that makes you totally stand still and makes your head huge, you cannot avoid this. That is an unfair and petty game mechanic.

Again, I believe you're wrong, and we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Darleth]

if you're gearing for resists and defensive stats as a dh or wiz, you either fail miserably at this game, or dont understand basic logic behind a ranged class.

Or, you've never played hardcore, where defensive stats are important as hell, even on a DH or Wizard.
I'd like to see some people trying to play a glasscannon wizard or demon hunter on inferno hc.....

[rigoremortis]

1) DH and Wizards are glass cannons - they are compared to barbarians and Monks(debatable really) but they still go full hog in maxing as much Vit and Resistances as you can, You see, you obviously did not pay attention to what I said, you cannot BUILD to be a glass cannon because the game forces you to be the generic-Hunter or the Generic-Wizard who maxes his defenses and his damage at equal turns. You cannot sacrifice your health for damage for example.

love these quotes, rofl. people that suck at kiting go with this method/opinion that it must be an issue with the game, and not lack of skill on the players side. you can and do build glass cannons out of dh's and wiz's, and if you gear defensively it simply means you suck at your main job, kiting. the game only "forces" you to gear defensively if you're so terrible and keep dieing constantly that you get frustrated and start doing so. it otherwise does not "force" you to gear defensively if you have remotely any skill, you might wanna consider rerolling to a melee if you want to gear defensively.

the notion that you're "forced" to do anything in this game is absolutely silly. when you get to inferno, you cant breeze through it like a hur dur durrr like the other difficulties, this is when the game actually starts, and you are required to change your skills and playstyle to adjust to the difficulty; those that are unable to do so come up with bs excuses and logics like these, that claim blizzard is "forcing" them to do something, ie people that obviously didnt play D2 or have a clue about the diablo series as a whole, come up with the conclusion that because they were able to breeze through the other difficulties, that inferno should be just as easy, well check this out, it isnt! lol

stutter kiting, you should take some lessons in it

---------- Post added 2012-06-19 at 01:33 PM ----------

Or, you've never played hardcore, where defensive stats are important as hell, even on a DH or Wizard.
I'd like to see some people trying to play a glasscannon wizard or demon hunter on inferno hc.....

because this discussion is totally about hardcore inferno.....oh wait! it isnt!

---------- Post added 2012-06-19 at 01:34 PM ----------

DH are mainly glass cannons. Looking at your statement I assume your dps is subpar. You deserve to die for playing like you do.

also, this ^ this guy gets it

[Deleted]

love these quotes, rofl. people that suck at kiting go with this method/opinion that it must be an issue with the game, and not lack of skill on the players side. you can and do build glass cannons out of dh's and wiz's, and if you gear defensively it simply means you suck at your main job, kiting.

Because you can kite everythin- oh wait.. something has jailer or vortex or some other unavoidable mechanic and kills you. Excuse me for thinking that I do not want to die to something in the game and assume people smart enough to gather enough vitality and resistances to avoid a hit or two more.

[Deleted]

3) Frozen and Jailer work together - wrong, stacking a good mechanic that with skill can be avoided with a skill that is a terrible mechanic and cannot be avoided just makes a terrible roadblock of fake difficulty. As an example, imagine in a FPS there was an enemy with a gun that could kill you with headshot, seems fair right? Now let's add in a random ability that makes you totally stand still and makes your head huge, you cannot avoid this. That is an unfair and petty game mechanic.

except every class has an ability to get out of jailer and if you don't have it bound in inferno you probably deserve to die

[Redblade]

I don't have 10mil gold to buy 1200 dps 1handers, sorry.

Though hopefully, with enough luck, I can get a decent one to drop in act 1 now...

I use a 925 DPS one hander, the OH damage (should be at least 75-300 as minimum numbers) and your attacks/second matters way more than the max DPS of the weapon.

[rigoremortis]

Because you can kite everythin- oh wait.. something has jailer or vortex or some other unavoidable mechanic and kills you. Excuse me for thinking that I do not want to die to something in the game and assume people smart enough to gather enough vitality and resistances to avoid a hit or two more.

and if you learn to stutter kite (you know, the most important part of even playing a dh or wiz in inferno?) then you'll be far away enough from the mobs to the point where a jailer freeze wont do anything. i play a 2h monk btw, for the challenge. and if u time smokescreen, a vortex wont do anything either

never even played a dh, yet teaching people how to.....comedy, rofl

[Deleted]

except every class has an ability to get out of jailer and if you don't have it bound in inferno you probably deserve to die

You don't get what I mean at all do you? It FORCES you to be restricted by a stupid auto shot mechanic, you cannot avoid it with gear choices, you cannot avoid it with skills, the only when you can avoid it is using an ability of your own, and that in turn narrows your choices. So it makes the game dumber and simpler simply because of Blizzard being lazy with abilties.

---------- Post added 2012-06-19 at 09:45 PM ----------

and if you learn to stutter kite (you know, the most important part of even playing a dh or wiz in inferno?) then you'll be far away enough from the mobs to the point where a jailer freeze wont do anything. i play a 2h monk btw, for the challenge. and if u time smokescreen, a vortex wont do anything either

never even played a dh, yet teaching people how to.....comedy, rofl

I haven't even got to inferno, I don't see much point in playing the same game constantly, I am talking about it as a game mechanic point of view. But like you just proved, takes no skill to avoid it, or rather one skill. Whats the point in it then? It's just that to be a basic stupid ability roadblock instead of anything presenting a challenge.

[Darleth]

because this discussion is totally about hardcore inferno.....oh wait! it isnt!

Dont care if it is about hardcore or not. Point is: defensive stats are worth it at some points in the game, even as a dh/wiz/whatsoever. You cant just say "durr, they're not important at all for those classes, doesn't matter what you're playing, it just sucks for those classes!", this is just wrong. You dont even have to agree with me if thats your opinion.

Secondly: I've cleared Inferno about a week ago on my barb and I was facerolling through most of the stuff because of overgearing most of the difficulty, but even i'm glad they nerfed some of the stuff that was just a pain in the a**. There are huge differences between a balanced, at some points challenging game and just a unfair, unbalanced game with mechanics that aren't fun and will kill you, even if you're playing almost flawless.

Edit: Third and my last point: Blizzard always wanted that all stats and builds are viable. This was NOT the case because of the state of inferno difficulty. Now after the nerfs to IAS and the difficulty itself even ranged classes like wizards or demonhunters can go into some more defensive stats instead of going full glass cannon builds.

[Deleted]

sounds like all the "Hardcore D3 Elites" are crying because normal players are going to be able to get into "their" private little sandbox.
Here is a wake up call if you are one of these people.

It makes Zero fucking difference to you or anyone else. Diablo is not a MMO, its not an Esport, and the only people you should ever be in competition with is yourself to get better geared, more gold etc.

If you can not accept the fact that blizzard realized that they fucked up with the difficulty curve of act 2 onwards and fixed it with in a month of the game going live, then you have some pretty serious issues and had better take a long hard look at where your priority's are in life. If your one of the people that beat Diablo in inferno prior to the patch I say to you "congratulations" you beat the game when it was at its hardest.

if your the person who beat inferno diablo on hardcore (looks a Kripp) then serious kudos to you.

[Deleted]

I have 1.1k all resist and 8k dps on my barb.
I can handle when they are 4 players that joined against Rare champion packs, I'm on EU atm after 1.0.3 patch.

Gonna shit on Inferno

EU patch is tonight, you are hardly playing 1.0.3 in EU