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  1. #1

    Killed Diablo before patch, can't kill Belial now

    Hi, I play a Monk. Before the patch, I could solo Diablo on Inferno. I now cannot kill Belial on Inferno, with a more dps oriented build due to is enrage.

    My stats: 1830 All resist. 33k HP. 11k Armor buffed. 10861 dps, (had over 12k before patch, but my weapon lost about 80 dps) over 12k dps with the buff from Breath of Heaven. I am in all ilvl 63s except for my amulet and rings, which have pretty damn good stats.

    My build: Mantra of Healing-Time of Need, Breath of Heaven-Blazing Wrath, Mystic Ally-Earth Ally, Serenity-Ascension, Sweeping Wind-Blade storm

    Between the Mystic Ally, and my Sweeping Wind, I have about 25k effective dps. Keep in mind, this is NOT my main tank build. I was clearing act 3 and 4 before the patch with more defensive abilities. I intentionally geared for more dps for farming act 2, as I believe that to be more efficient now due to clear speed.

    I hit enrage when the boss had about 800k left, and I kept my time on target as close to 100% as possible. My mystic ally and blazing wrath were up 100% of the time, and sweeping wind was at full stacks the entire time. I even stood in a lot of his channeled AoE for more dps time. I haven't really looked up any monk guides since I started playing this character, but I have to ask, is there just something grossly wrong with my build?

    Makes me not even want to think about trying later bosses with their fancy new enrage timers. So much for this patch being good for melee, eh?
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  2. #2
    Hint, more damage, less resistance.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    Hi, I play a Monk. Before the patch, I could solo Diablo on Inferno. I now cannot kill Belial on Inferno, with a more dps oriented build due to is enrage.

    My stats: 1830 All resist. 33k HP. 11k Armor buffed. 10861 dps, (had over 12k before patch, but my weapon lost about 80 dps) over 12k dps with the buff from Breath of Heaven. I am in all ilvl 63s except for my amulet and rings, which have pretty damn good stats.

    My build: Mantra of Healing-Time of Need, Breath of Heaven-Blazing Wrath, Mystic Ally-Earth Ally, Serenity-Ascension, Sweeping Wind-Blade storm

    Between the Mystic Ally, and my Sweeping Wind, I have about 25k effective dps. Keep in mind, this is NOT my main tank build. I was clearing act 3 and 4 before the patch with more defensive abilities. I intentionally geared for more dps for farming act 2, as I believe that to be more efficient now due to clear speed.

    I hit enrage when the boss had about 800k left, and I kept my time on target as close to 100% as possible. My mystic ally and blazing wrath were up 100% of the time, and sweeping wind was at full stacks the entire time. I even stood in a lot of his channeled AoE for more dps time. I haven't really looked up any monk guides since I started playing this character, but I have to ask, is there just something grossly wrong with my build?

    Makes me not even want to think about trying later bosses with their fancy new enrage timers. So much for this patch being good for melee, eh?
    Uh 1830 All resist? So you have 80 all resist + 60 of an element on all 11 non-weapon gear slots? Absolutely perfect gear?

    Why are you running Belial and not ponies or Diablo?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Freezymcgee View Post
    Uh 1830 All resist? So you have 80 all resist + 60 of an element on all 11 non-weapon gear slots? Absolutely perfect gear?

    Why are you running Belial and not ponies or Diablo?

    I assume he has the 20% to resists on his life regen mantra, so subract 20% from that to.

    ---------- Post added 2012-06-19 at 10:12 PM ----------

    Switch your stuff for lower content, use mantra of more damage taken, with overawe. Earth guy? I have not seen him as viable really since act I inferno, if then.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    Makes me not even want to think about trying later bosses with their fancy new enrage timers. So much for this patch being good for melee, eh?
    Playing melee is not intended way to play this game.
    Why are you running Belial and not ponies or Diablo?
    For this part - all bosses' drops were nerfed, and Whimsy was only good for melee for the clouds (and the fact that you could actually use your MF gear without worrying to get 1-shotted second later). Running Diablo is as pointless as Belial now (or ponies for that matter).

  6. #6
    Moderator Nyanmaru's Avatar
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    Use the item budget of about 800 of your resist and pour them into dexterity and possibly IAS or crit. Should really easily keep you defensive enough to survive the fight and push you to ~45k effective DpS. Or just drop mantra of healing for conviction (overawe +48% Dmg) and soak a bit less damage but deal more damage. Additionally switch the Earth Ally to a more DpS oriented ally.

    Your "DpS reorientation" for farming act II seems a bit timid tbh. My monk is doing fine in act 2 with 8k armor, 900 resists, 24k HP, 600 LoH, 1.7 ApS, 18k DpS (no 15% buff), 50% dodge (incl. 3s mantra effect) and as skills Crippling-20%/Wind-Ally/Evasion/BoH15%/Serenity-Heal/Bladestorm/Resolve/OwE/Seize

  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire esoterickk's Avatar
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    You're completely geared as a tank ignoring most Offensive benefits is why.

    Clearing Diablo with ~12k DPS when you stack resist is a joke, it's long but you're pretty much unkillable (first clear on my Barb solo was with 12k damage but massive defensive stats). Fixing the boss fights to have enrage timers alleviates this issue, and makes you focus on DPS as well - instead of purely building tank as you are.

    This patch will be great for melee as building towards damage will become more rewarding and less penalizing survival-wise. You just need to adjust your build/play style to be able to beat enrage timers, opposed to spending ages whacking it down taking little to no damage.

  8. #8
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Go for a more damage-oriented build. Survivability is NOT the be-all and end-all priority for melee classes now. It helps for elites, but it's definitely not necessary for bosses.

    By the way, I can confirm this. One of my monk buddies decided to test it and bought a decent 2-hander of the AH. It boosted his damage by 20k, lowered his health by 11k, and obviously lowered his resistances a bit (and of course no block). We did Seigebreaker. He could take EVERY attack Seigebreaker threw at him, with that weapon equipped, and didn't even suffer critical damage.

    By the way, Seigebreaker killed me on the final 1% because I ran out of things to keep me alive. I play a demon hunter.

    Yeah. This patch DID make melee the new gods of the game, at the expense of (at the very least) one ranged class which was dominating. I'm not happy about it, but I don't think my DH is unplayable like some may claim. I just have to rethink my build decisions.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Auguine View Post
    I assume he has the 20% to resists on his life regen mantra, so subract 20% from that to
    I did, 80 resist all + 60 element resist on every piece of gear would be 1540, so absolutely perfect gear would amount to 1540 + (0.2*1540) = 1848...

    dosn't really make sense to me

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixdown View Post
    Yeah. This patch DID make melee the new gods of the game, at the expense of (at the very least) one ranged class which was dominating.
    Misinformation. First of all, melee are still very gear dependant, just not to such a ridiculous degree. Second - repair bills went up through the roof, not every mob drops gold, and 700+ piles of gold are too rare to make up for increased repairs. Repair bills are stacking up rapidly (even if you don't die), making melee to be too expensive class to maintain. If you have fresh level 60 barb/monk, you are basically forced to RMAH or to reroll ranged to farm gold (as they have minimum durability loss if they don't die).
    One of my monk buddies decided to test it and bought a decent 2-hander of the AH. It boosted his damage by 20k
    It made me smile. I hope you will see irony in your post.
    Last edited by Ferocity; 2012-06-20 at 03:42 AM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by esoterickk View Post
    You're completely geared as a tank ignoring most Offensive benefits is why.

    Clearing Diablo with ~12k DPS when you stack resist is a joke, it's long but you're pretty much unkillable (first clear on my Barb solo was with 12k damage but massive defensive stats). Fixing the boss fights to have enrage timers alleviates this issue, and makes you focus on DPS as well - instead of purely building tank as you are.

    This patch will be great for melee as building towards damage will become more rewarding and less penalizing survival-wise. You just need to adjust your build/play style to be able to beat enrage timers, opposed to spending ages whacking it down taking little to no damage.
    "You have multiple skills and abilities, so you can play whatever style you like. As long as it's exactly how we want you to play." - Blizzard Entertainment.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion
    Next time you guys log in, Blizzard should freeze your character, spawn your favourite mount and shoot it in the head. - Mormolyce

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Freezymcgee View Post
    I did, 80 resist all + 60 element resist on every piece of gear would be 1540, so absolutely perfect gear would amount to 1540 + (0.2*1540) = 1848...

    dosn't really make sense to me
    Busted on the math. He is claiming perfect gear set up, which I highly doubt. This is exactly why I don't believe half the crap, of "stats" people are posting around here.

    There is roughly 1300-1500 people playing Inferno at any given time. This means, Laucrus, plays this game ALL the time, is the luckiest bastards on drops, or RMAH all his gear. Perfect gear, even in the beginning, was running roughly 10 million or more. So to have perfect gear through farming, is just completely wrong.

    So it's a lie or we have someone that farms non-stop for hours.

    He also has over 350% magic find too. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post17222981 So here is the rundown, he has perfect resists gear and has amazing magic find gear enough to farm Inferno ponies with...

    Yeah I am calling bullshit.

  13. #13
    Stood in the Fire esoterickk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    "You have multiple skills and abilities, so you can play whatever style you like. As long as it's exactly how we want you to play." - Blizzard Entertainment.
    Yes, you have multiple skills and abilities, and yes, you can play whatever style you like.

    By your logic,

    Should I be able to run around and press nothing and clear the game?
    Only use the one skill and be able to clear?
    Wear zero gear and still clear?

    Because you know, Blizzard said we can play how we want, which surely means I can play however I want, with no boundaries and still expect to be able to clear everything.

    I love this complaint because if we're going to go outside of obvious meanings and interpret them how we like, what difference is this? Where's the line drawn for such extremes? Oh wait, it's that invisible one you create in order to support your unreasonable "logic" whenever you are lacking and doing things wrong - "but Blizz said I can play how I want!!!".

    Needing better damage =/= Blizzard pigeonholing you into "their way of playing". It's simply needing better requirements to beat the mechanics presented (in this case, an enrage timer).

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    1830 All resist.
    I'm calling BS here. Screenshot please.
    Quote Originally Posted by Precursor View Post
    "Fall of therzane....." ....um what? if that woman fell , god help us it will be the second cataclysm
    Words that lots of people don't seem to know the definition of:
    "Troll", "Rehash", "Casual", "Dead", "Dying", "Exploit".

  15. #15
    Mechagnome Jeffyjimbob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by esoterickk View Post
    Yes, you have multiple skills and abilities, and yes, you can play whatever style you like.

    By your logic,

    Should I be able to run around and press nothing and clear the game?
    Only use the one skill and be able to clear?
    Wear zero gear and still clear?

    Because you know, Blizzard said we can play how we want, which surely means I can play however I want, with no boundaries and still expect to be able to clear everything.

    I love this complaint because if we're going to go outside of obvious meanings and interpret them how we like, what difference is this? Where's the line drawn for such extremes? Oh wait, it's that invisible one you create in order to support your unreasonable "logic" whenever you are lacking and doing things wrong - "but Blizz said I can play how I want!!!".

    Needing better damage =/= Blizzard pigeonholing you into "their way of playing". It's simply needing better requirements to beat the mechanics presented (in this case, an enrage timer).
    I think you're assuming people like melo want to play through inferno with an attack skill on each button, I.E., no defensive skills. I'm pretty sure you couldn't be further from their actual expectations.

    It's probably safe to assume melo meant that he'd like to be able to use something other than the grab-bag of skill+rune combinations that are actually viable. I think less than a third of my skills are actually viable in inferno, no matter what build/gear you have. There's a ton of attacks I had fun with at lower levels, but once I hit inferno (actually, hell for that matter) those skills were completely useless.

    Do I still have a choice in what I use? Yea, but if I plan on progressing there's only a handful of skills that I can actually succeed with. That's the problem, and I'm pretty sure that's what people like melo are complaining about.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Vook View Post
    I'm calling BS here. Screenshot please.
    Sure, why not, I have nothing better to do. And yes, I have nearly capped resistance on every piece of gear. So sue me, I wanted to see how much I could get.



    This isn't the exact gear I had on earlier, but it's close enough. I have a little less vitality, but that's it.

    And to everyone else, yeah, I killed Belial by going for a more dps oriented build. Switched to Mantra of Conviction, started dual wielding, and swapped out for the Air Ally. And yeah, I guess I can still farm well, but I just hate dropping mitigation in any way. And it annoyed me that I had couldn't do him in the spec that I can farm 95% of the rest of the game in. In fact, that still annoys me. If feel like I shouldn't have to swap out my spec to kill an Act 2 boss when I'm in almost full ilvl 63s.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  17. #17
    I dunno why people are crying about not having build diversity when I've met tons of different people in public games with drastically different skillsets. I'm rolling with a DH that has always used Entangling Shot with Justice is Served for Hatred regen, Impale with penetrate rune, vault, smoke screen and Bat. Ran with a DH pub that made use of the turret, grenades and the fear elemental arrow. Just because you read forums and find that X persons use this combination effectively doesn't mean that that that's the only build.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Freezymcgee View Post
    I did, 80 resist all + 60 element resist on every piece of gear would be 1540, so absolutely perfect gear would amount to 1540 + (0.2*1540) = 1848...

    dosn't really make sense to me
    You forgot intelligence bud.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  19. #19
    Epic! Mnevis's Avatar
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    Kripparian tested out some of the new enrages earlier on his softcore barb, and he let phase3 go into enrage before starting to dps, and won. I would have assumed with that much resist, active healing and absorbs you could pull it off. It's definitely a lot of meteors (I died to it once earlier, but I was using Mantra of Conviction and some DPS gear to try to help an barb with no dps beat it for the first time, we got it once he used WotB to help a little more on the DPS), but it's not entirely a death sentence.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Mnevis View Post
    Kripparian tested out some of the new enrages earlier on his softcore barb, and he let phase3 go into enrage before starting to dps, and won. I would have assumed with that much resist, active healing and absorbs you could pull it off. It's definitely a lot of meteors (I died to it once earlier, but I was using Mantra of Conviction and some DPS gear to try to help an barb with no dps beat it for the first time, we got it once he used WotB to help a little more on the DPS), but it's not entirely a death sentence.
    Well, for starters, I'm not as good as Kripparrian. He has an unfair advantage, called skill. I also don't play with as high of FPS as him. My comp is pretty garbage, and I normally run at like 40 fps. And lastly, I didn't realize quite to the extent that the explosions could be avoided while he was enraged. Kripp was immediately like, Oh, I can dodge this shit. I panicked and went balls deep on him.

    So it was about 80% my fuck up, and 20% computer.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

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