Why do shaman still have rockbiter weapon?

[AL-Nebuchad]

This is why

h t t p : / /w w w. w a r c r a f t m o v ie s . com/ movieview. php?id= 200931
From 12:12
(Not allowed to post links so remove all spaces obviously

[Endus]

nver said it was useless or outdated, I quoted specific example, where it indeed is subpar to other options, including shamans

Have you checked the thread title lately?

not when you are dedicated SoE buffer

Strength of Earth Totem is an Earth Totem. Grounding Totem is Air. Rockbiter has nothing to do with either.

If you meant Grounding, and were referring to the WoA or Windfury Totem buffs, it's still worth dropping on Hagara, especially on (H). You just need to pay more attention to timers. You can soak an entire ice lance by yourself, stack the buff as high as it will go, and then Ground the Shattered Ice for zero damage taken. It's a significant boost to raid survivability, especially if you're having trouble dancing the lances properly.

so, if you dont keep it on for the 5% dmg reduc, you keep it for 30% more aggro (which brings shaman at about equal level of aggro of all other nonpet dps, since like 25% of our dmg is already aggro-free), if you dont switch immediately back? Because that is pretty much the only reason left to keep it on instead of getting the dps one back immediately

No, you keep it on during a fight like Beth'tilac because more spinners will be up soon. Once that spinners phase is done, THEN you swap back to Flametongue Weapon until the next cycle.

Otherwise, you're dropping 3 GCDs every taunt. You lose less DPS this way, not that DPS matters than much on the spinners in the first place.

[Pascal]

To make up for the devastation from removing sentry totem. I will never forgive them.

[Sarevokcz]

Have you checked the thread title lately?

Yes, have you?

Strength of Earth Totem is an Earth Totem. Grounding Totem is Air. Rockbiter has nothing to do with either.

No, I was talking about SCT totem, obviously. its obviously not only one GCD and less dps lost, if you dont have any other SoE buffer in raid, compared to RB>DPS ench for damage mitigation

If you meant Grounding, and were referring to the WoA or Windfury Totem buffs, it's still worth dropping on Hagara, especially on (H). You just need to pay more attention to timers. You can soak an entire ice lance by yourself, stack the buff as high as it will go, and then Ground the Shattered Ice for zero damage taken. It's a significant boost to raid survivability, especially if you're having trouble dancing the lances properly.

Or you can just have noone but tank stand in front of boss and let him soak shattered ice, since full stack icelance into shattered ice is pretty much the only threat on the boss and can be mitigated with tank CDs no problem or can be completely avoided by tank moving the boss few yards away, but thats the power of tanking the boss on edge of the platform.

No, you keep it on during a fight like Beth'tilac because more spinners will be up soon. Once that spinners phase is done, THEN you swap back to Flametongue Weapon until the next cycle.

Otherwise, you're dropping 3 GCDs every taunt. You lose less DPS this way, not that DPS matters than much on the spinners in the first place.

There isnt that many spinners, how many, 4 on 10man, 2 per wave? If you had enough melee with taunt, you didnt need to bother, if you had enough ranged, you could have always just let them focus fire/assist one spinner and have it drop dead in 2 GCDs anyway. But I guess you could be running something like 3 rogue affli shaman dps where spinners actually survived more than a few seconds...

[Shauren]

Fun fact: you do not need it at all during Ultraxion gauntlet event - interrupting them while in air (yes, Wind Shear) instead of taunt has exactly the same result (no cast bar, like Zon'ozz eye tentacles)

[Alltat]

Interesting, considering Hour hits for 225k and even if AR reduced by 10% of the base damage (300k), you would need 195k HP. I miss like 4 pieces for BiS 410 gear, rings, bracers and trinket, and I dont think I could get that much HP even with stacked AV. I certainly didnt survive when I was assigned to the same role last week as you - people missed achiev run - and Im ele with 12% reduction from EW. Dragonwrath hass less stamina than 410 weapons tho. Will check tonight how much HP I can get, if I can survive Hour twice, Im sure WoL wouldnt mind

I'm sitting on 153k unbuffed health (should land around 180-190k raid buffed with AV) and the spell hit me for exactly 180k according to logs. Not entirely sure where the discrepancy between that 180k and the expected 190k+ value comes from, but I haven't really looked into it all that much. Either way, I soaked an Hour this week too as we didn't have a full raid and someone had to do it. On 10 man heroic again. No problems.

Have you actually tried it? The only non-BiS item I have with stamina on it is a 397 ring (still waiting for a hc Suturing to drop), but it wasn't as if it brings me down to single digit hp so your gear shouldn't be a problem. Switch in a 410 staff for the hour, perhaps.

Fun fact: you do not need it at all during Ultraxion gauntlet event - interrupting them while in air (yes, Wind Shear) instead of taunt has exactly the same result (no cast bar, like Zon'ozz eye tentacles)

Nothing is preventing you from doing both. Either way, the Beth'tilac example still stands. Being able to provide your own strand was a significant benefit for any DPS or healer with a taunt on that fight. We had our holydin upstairs in part because she could taunt down her own spinner, meaning she'd be up faster. Having a taunt is better than not having a taunt. Since there wasn't anything to attack during the "rainy" phase, switching to Rockbiter and back would not have been a DPS loss to spend three GCDs on the taunt. Lots of incoming damage, though, so a bit less viable as resto.

[Endus]

Or you can just have noone but tank stand in front of boss and let him soak shattered ice, since full stack icelance into shattered ice is pretty much the only threat on the boss and can be mitigated with tank CDs no problem or can be completely avoided by tank moving the boss few yards away, but thats the power of tanking the boss on edge of the platform.

I consider nobody taking damage from Shattered Ice superior to the tank soaking damage from Shattered Ice. Maybe I'm crazy, but Grounding Totem works great.

There isnt that many spinners, how many, 4 on 10man, 2 per wave? If you had enough melee with taunt, you didnt need to bother, if you had enough ranged, you could have always just let them focus fire/assist one spinner and have it drop dead in 2 GCDs anyway. But I guess you could be running something like 3 rogue affli shaman dps where spinners actually survived more than a few seconds...

As I said when I brought it up, my guild's had times when we had no melee with a taunt in the raid, in 10-man. And it's faster to taunt them down than kill them; while they're up they're a big damage source, so bringing them down improved raid survival.

[Undefetter]

As I said when I brought it up, my guild's had times when we had no melee with a taunt in the raid, in 10-man. And it's faster to taunt them down than kill them; while they're up they're a big damage source, so bringing them down improved raid survival.

Not to mention that pre-nerfs it did actually take a bit to get them dead, and they stun people. Its only one situation, but its definitely the best situation in Cataclysm for it I think.

[Chimaera]

When people pose these sorts of questions I find myself wondering if they are looking at it from a usefulness or a necessary standpoint. Does Rockbiter have the capacity to be useful? Yes. I know I have sacrificed myself at crucial points late in attempts by giving the tank who was going to die to big blows(a la decimation blade on Baleroc with the healers all having the debuff) valuable time to be healed thanks to this. This is made even easier by the fact shaman have reincarnation. Is Rockbiter a necessary part of the shaman class toolkit? Probably not. I cannot see how any class that is not meant to tank absolutely needs to have a taunt of some kind.

[SpaceJam]

Seriously. Why is this weapon buff in the expansion? It's completely and utterly worthless, especially since you receive the spell at level 75, completely dismantling any notion of shaman making for some sort of quasi-low-level tank. I mean, it really does nothing more than sit in our spellbooks, but god damn, Blizz, get rid of that worthless crap.

It is going to be pretty useful in PvP with the lvl 90 talent. I can foresee a lot of "A shield wall every 15 seconds is OP."

[Sarevokcz]

I consider nobody taking damage from Shattered Ice superior to the tank soaking damage from Shattered Ice. Maybe I'm crazy, but Grounding Totem works great.

I suppose you are right. But then again, you could ask to be in a tank group, have him soak ice lances, since he takes crapload less damage from it and then Ground shattered ice on him instead of you. Its one boss I never bothered dropping Grounding, even tho I knew it worked, because we just didnt have troubles with shattered ice on progress since like 4th pull and were wiping on uncoordinated lightning phase, meleers failing on frost phase etc.

on topic tho

my issues with RB are that 5% damage reduction is really low and the 30% more aggro brings our aggro at about same level as nonpet dps classes, since about 25% of our damage is aggro-free (searing, FET, overloads) thus doesnt really allow us "tanking" and for the inevitable 2 GCDs spent, I find it pretty underwhelming. Basically the only really viable use it has is the taunt, which, unless it is for special mechanic like beth, is difficult to pull of, because if someone is dying right now, taunt in 1.5 sec might not be fast enough (if you even have saved up the UE CD)

I would definitely like if our weapon enchants worked more like aspects, off the GCD, but sharing their own small shared CD of some sort, would not only make swapping enchants easier, but also viable, switching to EL, when casting support HR, switching to RB when taunt will be needed or switching to FT when you are gonna throw some LBs for mana, while not being punished (too much) through GCDs. If it is macroed? so what, loads hunters have macroed Hawk into their instant shots since the Fox was introduced jusr as tons warriors have macroed swapping stances for certain abilites

---------- Post added 2012-06-23 at 01:01 PM ----------

It is going to be pretty useful in PvP with the lvl 90 talent. I can foresee a lot of "A shield wall every 15 seconds is OP."

Yes, that is my concern, too, what impact its gonna have on PvP, I mentioned it few days ago, too.

[PizzaSHARK]

It is going to be pretty useful in PvP with the lvl 90 talent. I can foresee a lot of "A shield wall every 15 seconds is OP."

Heh, yeah. So then it'll get nerfed, we'll discover Rockbiter isn't worth unleashing compared to other options, and it'll be relegated to the dustbin for another expansion except for maybe a couple of locations custom-designed for it.

Isn't that kind of why they got rid of Sentry Totem and Eyes of the Beast and whatnot? People just weren't really using them?

[SpaceJam]

Heh, yeah. So then it'll get nerfed, we'll discover Rockbiter isn't worth unleashing compared to other options, and it'll be relegated to the dustbin for another expansion except for maybe a couple of locations custom-designed for it.

Isn't that kind of why they got rid of Sentry Totem and Eyes of the Beast and whatnot? People just weren't really using them?

Yea, so we should just stop playing our Shamans, I think =]. No but in all seriousness it most definitely will get nerfed for that reason. Since Resto is and probably always will be a Glad level healer something like that just make them OP, I guess. It will meet the same fate as Wind Shear.

[FatCheeseMan]

I run 5 mans with a hunter friend that is horrible at traps, I occasionally use it to lure the desired mob to the trap. I would miss it if it were to be removed. Even though its uses are rare.

[PizzaSHARK]

I run 5 mans with a hunter friend that is horrible at traps, I occasionally use it to lure the desired mob to the trap. I would miss it if it were to be removed. Even though its uses are rare.

Should probably tell your hunter friend to stop being bad at his class

[Alltat]

I run 5 mans with a hunter friend that is horrible at traps, I occasionally use it to lure the desired mob to the trap. I would miss it if it were to be removed. Even though its uses are rare.

I've done that too in PUGs. Numerous times.

Should probably tell your hunter friend to stop being bad at his class

And I guess we can safely remove taunt from all tanks' action bars and just tell the DPS to stop being bad at threat management?

[PizzaSHARK]

I've done that too in PUGs. Numerous times.


And I guess we can safely remove taunt from all tanks' action bars and just tell the DPS to stop being bad at threat management?

Several fights require tanks to taunt the monster away from each other so a debuff can fall off

[shokter]

in it's current form it's worthless. period.

Someone already mentioned a valid PvE raiding use. I used Rockbiter every week to taunt spiders on Beth'tilac. Clunky? Yes. Worthless? No.

period.

[Sarevokcz]

And I guess we can safely remove taunt from all tanks' action bars and just tell the DPS to stop being bad at threat management?

Honestly, hunter itself has distracting shot to pull the mob into the trap.
And really, what was the mob doing, while not trapped? on tank? well thats fine. on dps? the dps can pull him into the trap or to the tank anyway, unless they suck. on healer? well then I wont need to spend two GCDs on taunt (provided I actually HAVE UE CD ready), since healer aggro is pretty low and i can just CC it myself, throw FrS/fulmi/whatever its way, or just thunderstorm the sh1t out of it if im close and dont have to worry if the fixate will end before its in a trap.

I have lured hundreds of mobs to hunter traps since vanilla, I have never needed RB taunt.

Yes, it has its justifiable uses. This specific one is IMO not one of them.

[Alltat]

Honestly, hunter itself has distracting shot to pull the mob into the trap.

Yup. I play a hunter as my DPS alt of choice (my shaman is dual specced as 2x PvE resto since T11) and frequently use Distracting Shot to get things into traps that for whatever reason didn't quite do what it was supposed to the first time around.

PUGs will be PUGs, though. Tanks don't always notice all loose adds. DPS don't always notice that there's an untriggered Freezing Trap on the ground. Lots of DPS also seem to forget everything they learned solo the second they enter a dungeon, so mages will tank with their face rather than use Frost Nova while hunters panic and run in circles if they get aggro. There's not a lot I can do about that during the fight, so I can either never do LFG or I can use the tools I have to solve the problems. Admittedly I haven't really done any five mans on my shaman since 4.0, but that has more to do with already having better gear from raids than with the people you meet.