Old God Mural in Heart of Fear?

[Voidgazer]

It's fan speculation. The Mantid are *not* familiar with the Sha and see its influence as destructive and disgusting, whatever ancient legacy they had tied back with Y'shaarj is legend and myth

That's wrong though. Mantid worshiped an Old God before and will gladly serve it again should it ever return. They actually know the Sha are remains of that God, who was defeated by Titans. They only oppose the Sha affected Empress and her forces, because her fear being replaced by the next empress disrupts the Mantid cycles and other, um... traditions.

[Kuthe]

Wasn't there speculation that the 7 sha's were the 7 heads from the one Old God with the puzzle box?
Maybe killing them all will result in them combining into the old god again.
Or something.

[nnelson54]

Interestingly enough, Y'Shaarj had seven heads, but there are only six Sha. Perhaps something yet remains to be unlocked, or perhaps I am just crazy.

/tinfoilhat

Dave Kosak(the lead quest designer) has already said that while Y'Shaarj had seven heads, there's only six Sha. The Sha are less representative of Y'Shaarj's heads and more of Shaohao's burdens, of which there were six.

---------- Post added 2012-11-09 at 10:37 AM ----------

I also think it's funny that I once got infracted for responding to a post that had gone 23 hours without a response, while this thread has been going for hours after being rezzed after five months.

[Shadowbane]

The Titans killed him(so much for the whole "you can't kill a Titan or Azeroth will BLOW UP" thing people keep saying that never had any basis in lore and instead was just a creation of players trying to figure out why the Titans imprisoned such dangerous beings instead of killing them, when the obvious answer is, "So we can kill them. Duh.")

This does have a place in lore, it's been referenced numerous times especially in the Ulduar instances. The Curse of Flesh is tied to the Old Gods; getting rid of them also gets rid of that.

The Curse of Flesh is revealed to have been created by the Old Gods early in Azeroth's history to "facilitate assimilation". The titans attempted to remove the curse (and the Old Gods), but found that the Old God infestation had grown too severe to remove without completely destroying Azeroth. Instead they bound the Old Gods within Azeroth.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Curse_of_Flesh

Also it wasn't just the Shado-Pan that trained for the return of Sha; the Celestials knew it was a conflict long coming and that the Alliance and Horde's presecne was just a catalyst (Chi-Ji says this in the quest 'In the House of the Red Crane'). The temples scattered around Pandaria mark the sight at which the Sha were defeated and buried, and the monks are trained in styles specifically suited to engaging in combat with that Sha.

My guess on how or why Y'Shaarj died is that he was the first one the Titans ended up killing, after which point they realised they couldn't kill all o the Old Gods.

[Chonar]

My guess on how or why Y'Shaarj died is that he was the first one the Titans ended up killing, after which point they realised they couldn't kill all o the Old Gods.

Trial-and-error seems to be the Titans' way of doing things, aye. Just look at the Emerald Dream and the "layers of Azeroth".
Which, on its own, is a very mechanical method. So that's fitting.

Aggramar: Falcon.. PAUNCH!!
Y'shaarsj: *blargh!*
Aggramar: Aw yeah.
Sha's: Spawnin in your base, killin ur golems
Aggramar: Okay, we're not killing these guys anymore, shit's a mess.
C'thun: *casts Feign Death*
Aggramar: Oh COME ON, I said stop DPS!

[Muirey]

Trial-and-error seems to be the Titans' way of doing things, aye. Just look at the Emerald Dream and the "layers of Azeroth".
Which, on its own, is a very mechanical method. So that's fitting.

Speaking of the emerald dream, I'm surprised they never worked that into some sort of instance especially in Cata with all the world shattering events.

[Sekhmet]

If you do the quests at the anglers camp, you'll get to fish up small mindbenders (presented as spawn of one of the giant fish monsters, similar to the one you used to fight in Theramore harbour or the Tuskarr sea godess). Id say that there are old god connections, they are supposedly pretty much omnipresent, but I don't think it automatically mean we will see any major Old god related content and lore.

You could also aruge that the Sha, having been imprisoned under the earth for 10k years or so made friends with the neighbours. But personally I hope they leave them as they are. You dont need to stick tentacles in everything.

[huth]

Just look around the sea in Townlong. There's a few of these Leviathans swimming there.

[Fahrenheit]

I don't know if it's mention in this thread but once you're exalted with the Klaxxi they pretty much tell you that they worshipped one of the old gods, that they will return, and that we (the hero) should strongly think about joining them in their worship to ensure our own survival.

Plus the mural is in the lower section of the Klaxxi base, the one they only allow you in once you're exalted.

[Chonar]

Just look around the sea in Townlong. There's a few of these Leviathans swimming there.

Disappointingly soloable ones, too.
Honestly, those squiddy giants should be able to one-hit any player. No one has any reason to be so far out there anyway, thats all the justification needed.

[purebalance]

"A thousand deaths... or one murder. Your petty quarrels only make me stronger!

"They drink your fear: it is the blood of life."

"They who dine on lost souls know only hunger."

Feeding on negative emotions as an Old God isn't a far shot.


Altough it is said that the big Sha baddies (Sha of Fear, Sha of Anger, ....) were the embodiement of the negative emotions of the Last Pandaren Emporer, after he purged them from his mind, he, the Shado pan and August celestials worked together to imprison them.

After that the Emperor became a pure soul to which any negative emotion is unkown.

Yes but after he defeated the sha and imprisoned him they fed off everyone else's to repower and reemerge.

---------- Post added 2012-11-09 at 01:37 PM ----------

I would rather not have the Sha be Old God related, but instead be something the Old Gods see as a weapon to utilize. N'Zoth can see something like the Sha of Fear and be like "Wow I want some of that! I wonder how I can make more..."

Hate to break it to you, but it was already stated before MoP launched that the origin of the sha in general is from the slaying of an old god that the titans had done in Pandaria. Y'Shaarj was it's name. The Pandaren Emperor was doing what he did to stop the Sundering from hurting Pandaria.

---------- Post added 2012-11-09 at 01:42 PM ----------

In the Best Buy Q&A with the devs, a fan asked if the Sha and Y'Shaarj were connected. The devs said "They are most definitely connected". The fan speculation is whether or not the Sha are the actual heads of Y'Shaarj, or something else related to him. The devs confirmed that Y'Shaarj is definitely dead, but the Sha are connected. Feel free to look it up, it wasn't that long ago that all this was said and posted on MMO-Champion. There is even a link to it on the wowpedia page for Y'Shaarj.

The only real thing that has ever bothered me about the Mantid and the Sha is the fact that the Klaxxi seem to dislike what the Sha of Fear has done to their society, yet, they praise their dead Old God. They go so far as to say that they would ally once again with Y'Shaarj if he were to ever "come back", and would advise the wisest among the "lesser races" to do the same. They tell this story while inside Klaxxi'vess, under an amber-colored mural like the one in Heart of Fear. It's clearly supposed to be Y'Shaarj, as this is the first and only time in-game we hear about him. They even mention that, after the Titans killed him, his shadows continued to haunt the land.

With all of that in mind, and all of that in the knowledge of the Klaxxi...why would they defy the Sha? They clearly still praise their Old God (who would have died long, LONG before any current civilization was born) and hope he would come back. They know his shadows (= Sha) haunt the land, yet openly defy the "corruption" of the Sha of Fear. That didn't make much sense to me in a lore sense.

The Sha are nothing like the old god. Old Gods have vast intelligence and even the largest of Sha are still driven by the basest of functions they were designed around.

---------- Post added 2012-11-09 at 01:51 PM ----------

The Nerubians didn't worship old gods. They were killed and rasied by the Lich King. Some of the ones still alive were friendly.

Obviously you don't know the nerubians then.

3 races who were sister races worshipped the old gods: Qiraji, Nerubians, and Mantid. If you reach Klaxxi exalted you're told this by the Klaxxi.

Also, the large Sha are in fact from Y'Shaarj. The Klaxxi tell you this subtly. "Great was the Old One, and terrible was His wrath. He consumed hope and begat despair; He inhaled courage and breathed fear." I see 3 large Sha alone in that statement: Fear, Despair, and Violence(or Anger).

[huth]

Disappointingly soloable ones, too.
Honestly, those squiddy giants should be able to one-hit any player. No one has any reason to be so far out there anyway, thats all the justification needed.

Until then, i'll keep hoing they make them tamable. Somehow.

[Gorno]

Bad news guys.

Blizzard is now Indoctrinated by EA to.

[huth]

You do know that they had this design way before ME already? Check old screenshots of The Master's Glaive.

[glowpipe]

The picture looked like soggoth. But soggot wasnt an old god. He was a minion of the old gods

[Imnick]

3 races who were sister races worshipped the old gods: Qiraji, Nerubians, and Mantid. If you reach Klaxxi exalted you're told this by the Klaxxi.

Also, the large Sha are in fact from Y'Shaarj. The Klaxxi tell you this subtly. "Great was the Old One, and terrible was His wrath. He consumed hope and begat despair; He inhaled courage and breathed fear." I see 3 large Sha alone in that statement: Fear, Despair, and Violence(or Anger).

Well you obviously haven't played Wrath of the Lich King or Warcraft III, where the Nerubians and Forgotten Ones are clearly enemies :U
This has not been retconned. The quests in The Old Kingdom were updated for Mists of Pandaria to place the quest givers inside the instance rather than outside and given new flavour text, text that continues to tell the story that the Nerubians do not worship Yogg-Saron and are in fact at war with him.

In the quests The Faceless Ones and Proof of Demise: Herald Volaz, Kilix the Unraveler and Archmage Lan'dalock say that as the nerubians fought the Scourge, they dug deeper underground as they lost ground to the undead. "We inadvertently exposed a tendril of the Old God's will, which was made manifest in the creatures known only as the Faceless." He then goes on to say that they lost the war because "In the end, we could not fight on two fronts against such powerful enemies. Our misfortune cost us the war against the undead, and ultimately, our home."

Perhaps at one point they worshipped the Old Gods, but that would have been before they split off from the other Aqir to form their own Spider Kingdom in what became Northrend.
The Qiraji worship a living Old God, the Mantid worship a dead one and the Nerubian race has been mostly destroyed by the fact that they were trapped between the hostile scourge on the surface and the hostile minions of an Old God below.

You do know that they had this design way before ME already? Check old screenshots of The Master's Glaive.

That was what we on the internet like to call "a joke".

[Golden Yak]

Speaking of the emerald dream, I'm surprised they never worked that into some sort of instance especially in Cata with all the world shattering events.

Emerald Dream's an expansion-worthy concept. I'm sure we'll see one eventually.

[Deleted]

Sha in ulduar
Old god in HoF

I like this very much.

[Vayshan]

I kinda hope it ISN'T Old God related. I'm so tired of EVERYTHING being the result of Old God corruption. We're almost done with an entire expansion of it and I'd like a break. Same with dragons and elemental aspects.

The Sha are left overs from an Old God. The Mantid worshipped Y'Shaarj, the same Old God. Once you're exalted with them they'll tell you the whole story.

[purebalance]

Well you obviously haven't played Wrath of the Lich King or Warcraft III, where the Nerubians and Forgotten Ones are clearly enemies :U
This has not been retconned. The quests in The Old Kingdom were updated for Mists of Pandaria to place the quest givers inside the instance rather than outside and given new flavour text, text that continues to tell the story that the Nerubians do not worship Yogg-Saron and are in fact at war with him.



Perhaps at one point they worshipped the Old Gods, but that would have been before they split off from the other Aqir to form their own Spider Kingdom in what became Northrend.
The Qiraji worship a living Old God, the Mantid worship a dead one and the Nerubian race has been mostly destroyed by the fact that they were trapped between the hostile scourge on the surface and the hostile minions of an Old God below.


That was what we on the internet like to call "a joke".

http://www.wowpedia.org/Y%27Shaarj

Also at Blizzcon 2007 the lore panel in fact stated "the nerubians and old gods are BFF".

1 quest giver and his 3-5 followers don't like the old gods. I'm pretty sure it's for selfish purposes really if you look into it.

Also, the quest giver was shifted in 4.3 not MoP or 5.0 Nothing was changed for MoP to include location.

Furthermore there is an indication of an "unseen emperor" which was never expanded on. Just because the faceless ones attacked them means nothing of their allegiances as if Yogg Saron was still imprisoned at the time you complete the Old Kingdom which is fairly true since the only indication of his escape actually comes with the Ulduar patch, the faceless ones could easily be rogue and mindless. It's pretty easy to fight faceless ones and still be in league with an old god especially since there's plenty of infighting amongst the old gods themselves. So really that proves absolutely nothing.