Chasing the carrot?

[Lidralyn]

One of the most fun games I ever played was Asheron's Call, and most people hated it. But the loot was almost totally random. Once they put tinkering in the game, the thrill of trying to find a "perfect" item...then having increasingly odds to try and tinker the item into a perfect condition with sometimes a 10% chance to fail on the final try was awesome. It always gave you something to look forward to. Once you finally attained that item that you spent all of that time working towards (most of the work could even be done solo, so it wasn't like waiting for raids/lockouts/etc.) It felt like a real accomplishment. Not just a run of the mill, here is your piece of gear that is just as powerful as everyone elses. Even tho it was maybe 3% better than everyone elses and did not make or break a fight, it was always something to work towards.

[Malthurius]

A foreign concept for a lot of people when it comes to MMOs, and not one desired by everyone.

Just throwing out options rather than simply saying "Then GW2 isn't for you"...

---------- Post added 2012-06-20 at 03:42 PM ----------

One of the most fun games I ever played was Asheron's Call, and most people hated it. But the loot was almost totally random. Once they put tinkering in the game, the thrill of trying to find a "perfect" item...then having increasingly odds to try and tinker the item into a perfect condition with sometimes a 10% chance to fail on the final try was awesome. It always gave you something to look forward to. Once you finally attained that item that you spent all of that time working towards (most of the work could even be done solo, so it wasn't like waiting for raids/lockouts/etc.) It felt like a real accomplishment. Not just a run of the mill, here is your piece of gear that is just as powerful as everyone elses. Even tho it was maybe 3% better than everyone elses and did not make or break a fight, it was always something to work towards.

Then it that case, GW2 might work for you. Gear isn't all the same, they all have "technically" the same power, but stat distribution is different. You could probably spend quite a bit of time trying to get the perfect piece of gear for your character with the exact stats you want.

[Delias]

Just throwing out options rather than simply saying "Then GW2 isn't for you"...

I think it's quite obvious from the two posts made by the OP that his primary goal when playing an MMO IS the power provided from gear. If his PRIMARY CONCERN is gear, GW2 may not interest him. Nothing wrong with a game not being the right fit for him, regardless of how much I may be looking forward to that game.

[rhandric]

While you're not going to experience the same thing in GW2, Lidralyn, you're still going to want to get gear to optimize your build; you're just not going to be relying on RNG to decide whether you'll be getting it today or 5 years from now.

[terrahero]

GW2 is not a gear grind with a constant gear threadmill, periodic gear resets and a carrot to constantly chase after. They've made it very clear if that is what you want from your MMO you will not enjoy GW2.

For me thats one of the reasons exactly why i will enjoy it. Its a mind boggling disposition some people are in, you are essentially saying "ill bear through any horrible repetitive content aslong as there is a shiny at the end of the hardship" while snuffing at "Your journey is what matters and will be fun, and thats the reward. Not +5 stats".

I got into playing games to have fun. Grinding is not fun, its anti-fun. Its a task, a chore, redeemed only with a shiny at the end. Thats like paying for, and sitting through a horrible movie and you know its going to be a horrible movie, all because you get a cookie at the end.

[Malthurius]

I think it's quite obvious from the two posts made by the OP that his primary goal when playing an MMO IS the power provided from gear. If his PRIMARY CONCERN is gear, GW2 may not interest him. Nothing wrong with a game not being the right fit for him, regardless of how much I may be looking forward to that game.

I don't know... doesn't seem right to me to say a game isn't right for someone when they haven't played it. They might end up liking it despite their concerns and previous tastes, you never really know...

[terrahero]

GW2 is not a gear grind with a constant gear threadmill, periodic gear resets and a carrot to constantly chase after. They've made it very clear if that is what you want from your MMO you will not enjoy GW2.

For me thats one of the reasons exactly why i will enjoy it. Its a mind boggling disposition some people are in, you are essentially saying "ill bear through any horrible repetitive content aslong as there is a shiny at the end of the hardship" while snuffing at "Your journey is what matters and will be fun, and thats the reward. Not +5 stats".

I got into playing games to have fun. Grinding is not fun, its anti-fun. Its a task, a chore, redeemed only with a shiny at the end. Thats like paying for, and sitting through a horrible movie and you know its going to be a horrible movie, all because you get a cookie at the end. Why didnt you just get a ticket for a good movie?!

[Delias]

I don't know... doesn't seem right to me to say a game isn't right for someone when they haven't played it. They might end up liking it despite their concerns and previous tastes, you never really know...

It's like someone saying "The most important thing in a video game for me is guns. I do not like games without guns, as they are what interest me. Without guns I do not have fun." and you saying "You should play Mario."
Sometimes games are not the right fit for people.

[Malthurius]

It's like someone saying "The most important thing in a video game for me is guns. I do not like games without guns, as they are what interest me. Without guns I do not have fun." and you saying "You should play Mario."
Sometimes games are not the right fit for people.

I don't think that's a good analogy since at least here it's the same genre and to a certain extent has a gear grind.

[Delias]

I don't think that's a good analogy since at least here it's the same genre and to a certain extent has a gear grind.

Considering he specifically used GW1's power plateau as an example, and GW2's power plateau is almost the same.. an analogy shouldn't even be needed.

[Malthurius]

Considering he specifically used GW1's power plateau as an example, and GW2's power plateau is almost the same.. an analogy shouldn't even be needed.

What he described in GW1 isn't exactly how it works in GW2. Those upgrades and specific stats aren't as easy to get as going to a vendor and paying some gold.

[Ashnazg]

*Shrug* I play MMORPGs for the skinner box effect. I want to have a carrot to chase, to create an illusion of a persistent world where I am investing hours to build up my character's power. GW2 has none of that, since you cannot build up your character's power in a game where you effectively peak out on your power as soon as you hit max level.

In other words, GW2, to me, is in the same league as COD, BF3, LoL, etc - games with no real progression, that you play just "for fun". This is also the reason why I won't be getting GW2 - BF3 and LoL get my jollies out much more effectively than GW2 does.

[Lidralyn]

The stats on items, such as +23 power, +10 Precision, etc. Are those random on items? Or are they static? If they are random then it would be very fun trying to find "perfect" sets of gear for different situations.

I did love Warhammer online in the fact that their dungeons were HARD, even if some of it was a gear grind, the dungeons were actually challenging. If the exploration mode dungeons are actually a challenge and if I go in with decent people and not really good people we wipe and can't beat it, that would be awesome. Everyone quotes the challenge of GW2, if it is like that, then that will be something to work towards and devise strategies for and such.

Sidegrades of "better looking gear" are somewhat interesting, I did do a lot of random achievements in wow that did nothing but give me another carrot to chase.

I am just not an "alt" gamer, I hate alts, I sometimes will make one for crafting, but since this game has it so you can switch I might not. I like to level one character and be the best at that character possible. With the best gear, the best looking gear, and go from there. It just scares me in this game that they are talking about constantly the "replay value" and the "story progression can be different" so it makes me scared they expect you to get to 80, play for a few hours, get the best gear, and roll an alt to do it all "differently."

I do love the idea of having a new area/zone/dynamic event patched in months after release and then not needing to do dungeon x before you have the gear to do the new stuff. I do like that thought a lot. So it's not neccesarily the gear tier system that matters to me.

---------- Post added 2012-06-20 at 03:01 PM ----------

*Shrug* I play MMORPGs for the skinner box effect. I want to have a carrot to chase, to create an illusion of a persistent world where I am investing hours to build up my character's power. GW2 has none of that, since you cannot build up your character's power in a game where you effectively peak out on your power as soon as you hit max level.

In other words, GW2, to me, is in the same league as COD, BF3, LoL, etc - games with no real progression, that you play just "for fun". This is also the reason why I won't be getting GW2 - BF3 and LoL get my jollies out much more effectively than GW2 does.

That is what I meant, without any form or chance of progression, it gets old fast. LoL did that for me, once I got max summoner level the game got boring in about a week. New champions are fun for awhile but then it's back to just the same, there is nothing gained from playing a match aside from a little leaderboard progression...which I am horrible at and don't have the time to really invest to be in the top 100, so there isn't a point in that.

[Deleted]

You can always win tournaments in structured pvp. Perhaps might be added some real cash in that as well if it hits e-sport market.
Not sure that will happen though. But there's always ways to be a dude people know about in mmos. Find something and specialize in it, either it be the pro crafter of this and that or the pro organizer for world pvp or the leader of the best gw2 guild in the world.
There's always ways to make yourself stand out and shine, that usually takes a little time and a little effort but that's usually what those people want and are willing to spend.

[Maarius]

-snip-
I do love the idea of having a new area/zone/dynamic event patched in months after release and then not needing to do dungeon x before you have the gear to do the new stuff. I do like that thought a lot. So it's not neccesarily the gear tier system that matters to me.

there is an interesting article, take a look:

Guild Wars 2 Doesn't Have a Traditional Endgame

I know this probably counts a downside for some of my old raiding buddies, but, at least these days, I like the idea of there being something to my MMORPGs besides rushing to the level cap and participating in scheduled raids. That's ultimately the point of most traditional MMORPGs (unless they have a PvP structure that's good for something other than a diversion), and that's what made MMO-XY run out of steam so quickly once most guilds had cleared the content. MMO-XY still relies on an increasingly dated "hardcore" style that turns raiding into a job -- once you're done with your shift, all you want to do is leave and go home.

Instead, Guild Wars 2 is a casual game in the very best sense of the term. It does have a ridiculously high level cap for a new release (80), but much of what makes a traditional endgame (big bosses, giant PvP battles, hard dungeons) is wrapped up in the leveling experience itself. More than ever, the journey is more important than the destination. It's therefore not a raider's game like MMO-XY or MMO-XX, so such players probably won't find much reason to stick around, but it also means that people with limited time can enjoy Guild Wars 2 without feeling like they're missing out on much. I do think they'll need frequent content updates to keep that model sustainable, but I'm not that worried because...

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/guild-wars-2/1225122p1.html


well there is actually tons of stuff you can work towards to
-) weapons & armor with the "right" stats for your playstyle
-) set-upgrades (gear in GW2 has no set-bonuses, instead there are components which can be slotted into your armor which grant the set-bonusses from 1/6 to 6/6.
-) better looking gear: there are pretty looking items all over the world, you'll have to find those though. Legendaries?:

from Colins post in the Anet-Blog:

Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.

so it might take loooong to get the specific looking item, the stats may not fit your playstyle, BUT you can transmute those items with your best-stat gear... it's like putting the pretty skin over your good gear.

but this is just gear. There is much more in GW2 but it seems to me that gear is the most important part for you.

[Binaris]

what is a "skinner box"? im confused.

[Maarius]

what I wanted to show you in the first place:

This quote from an interview:

You run around Queensdale, the human starter area, and maybe the Brood Mother shows up every X minutes.We're going to put another event that can happen there, and then slow down how often the Brood Mother happens. Not only are there new events happening, but everything you've seen before starts happening less often. The world gets larger and larger. Three years from now, if someone makes a brand new character in the game, a place that has 100 events in it might have 300 by then.

They are constantly adding new content to the game, they mentioned putting those events into the game without telling us: so everybody should be surprised to find something new and interesting.

Know that dynamic events can have two outcomes
-) win
-) lose
While quests are only win-szenarios and you just return to the spot you died in order to finish the quest, dynamic events can fail. Heard the developers talking about 60:40 successrates for events. Now think of it: They can create REALLY hard events, because even if you fail at an event, there are follow-up events for your failure. Lose to the big dragon and the next thing you see is his minions invading the nearest villages. Follow-Up dynamic event: free the villages.

Hard content there will be. I promise. There is already in the low level zones. Can't imagine what will happen in the lv.70 & 80 zones.

[Malthurius]

what is a "skinner box"? im confused.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/epi...he-skinner-box

[DrakeWurrum]

Common misconception: There is power from gear. It's just not indefinitely increasing power that is perfectly matched by your enemies also gaining power and thus giving you the illusion of getting stronger, when you're relatively at the same level of power.

[Merendel]

The stats on items, such as +23 power, +10 Precision, etc. Are those random on items? Or are they static? If they are random then it would be very fun trying to find "perfect" sets of gear for different situations.

Depends on where you get the item from. Random loot droped from the world can have varrying stats. Think of it kind of like wows sufix's on green gear. AKA "Ubersword of the bear" has one pairing of stats while "Ubersword of the boar" has a different set. Same principle although I dont recall if random loot had a specific suffix for specific stats.
Karma gear will have specific stats depending on which vendor you buy the item from. You can look up online and find out what vendor has an item you want and just go get it.
Dungeon gear is also specific stats depending on the dungeon. The exception being the good old random loot that can come off any mob refered too up above.
Crafted gear the craftsman can choose withen a subset of possibilities what stats will be on the item. This is done by takeing the base item recipe and substatuting out the "Stats" componant for one of their choosing. Think of it like the suffix based loot but you get to pick the suffix when asembeling the item.