Canceling pre purchase

[Delias]

How can you not enjoy this game?

The world would be a boring place if everyone liked the exact same things.

Off-topic: GW2's fanboys are no better than any other game, and in some cases, worse. Poor Jesse Cox got death threats in his comments for weeks after he said "...The game is good and lives up to a lot of the hype, but its not the second coming like a lot of people are saying." Because he didn't say the game was the best thing ever he got death threats...

I think it's funny that you put that in quotes. Anyway, people weren't pissed he disliked the game. They were pissed that he hardly gave the game a shot before deciding he hates it. In the latest TGS podcast he admitted to judging it early and said that when he tried another profession in another starter zone his opinion on it changed completely.. pretty much confirming himself that he judged it too early. I wouldn't be mad if someone hated WoW, but if someone played it to level 3 and said it was the most boring game in existence I would be pretty damn annoyed. Especially if they took that opinion to hundreds of thousands of people.

[Lannden]

I think it's funny that you put that in quotes. Anyway, people weren't pissed he disliked the game. They were pissed that he hardly gave the game a shot before deciding he hates it. In the latest TGS podcast he admitted to judging it early and said that when he tried another profession in another starter zone his opinion on it changed completely.. pretty much confirming himself that he judged it too early. I wouldn't be mad if someone hated WoW, but if someone played it to level 3 and said it was the most boring game in existence I would be pretty damn annoyed. Especially if they took that opinion to hundreds of thousands of people.

You don't threaten to kill a person for that though. That's a bit more than an overreaction. He didn't even say the game was boring he said it was fun but not the second coming and they threatened to kill him...

[Repefe]

If somebody does not like the game, just let him go. It's his loss after all

[Deleted]

You don't threaten to kill a person for that though. That's a bit more than an overreaction. He didn't even say the game was boring he said it was fun but not the second coming and they threatened to kill him...

But that's the person. They don't threaten him because they're fanboys, they threaten him because they're messed up in real life. You can't say that all fanboys threaten people with physical harm any more tan you can say everyone who suffers with psychosis is a serial killer.

[Lannden]

But that's the person. They don't threaten him because they're fanboys, they threaten him because they're messed up in real life. You can't say that all fanboys threaten people with physical harm any more tan you can say everyone who suffers with psychosis is a serial killer.

But that's the problem, if that's all you are exposed to of that population you are going to assume that is the population. It wasn't just one person either, one of his videos had two full pages of just horrible things directed at him from different accounts.

[Purple]

You don't threaten to kill a person for that though. That's a bit more than an overreaction. He didn't even say the game was boring he said it was fun but not the second coming and they threatened to kill him...

Regardless of the nonsense threat, made by someone who certainly doesn't represent 'everyone', Jessey even admitted he didn't gave the game a chance, and spoke too soon. People were right to be miffed, because it was obvious he'd barely touched the game before delivering his verdict. Now, I say they were right to be miffed, and they were even well within their rights to say something about their feelings on the issue.. I'm not, I repeat, not saying the person that made the threat was right. I am saying that person that threatened Jessey does not speak for everyone, and both he and TB should realize that.

And yeah, it wasn't just one person that went overboard, but then it rarely is just one person. They still don't represent everyone.

On top of that, honestly, nonsense threats on the internet? This is not a new thing, at all. At this point it's more shocking that people find this behavior shocking, when it's so obnoxiously commonplace on the internet. Sad but true and all that.

[Lannden]

Regardless of the nonsense threat, made by someone who certainly doesn't represent 'everyone', Jessey even admitted he didn't gave the game a chance, and spoke too soon. People were right to be miffed, because it was obvious he'd barely touched the game before delivering his verdict. Now, I say they were right to be miffed, and they were even well within their rights to say something about their feelings on the issue.. I'm not, I repeat, not saying the person that made the threat was right. I am saying that person that threatened Jessey does not speak for everyone, and both he and TB should realize that.

And yeah, it wasn't just one person that went overboard, but then it rarely is just one person. They still don't represent everyone.

On top of that, honestly, nonsense threats on the internet? This is not a new thing, at all. At this point it's more shocking that people find this behavior shocking, when it's so obnoxiously commonplace on the internet. Sad but true and all that.

I'm not saying that it is shocking and new, what I'm saying is no one has the right to act like the GW2 community is the holy grail of gaming communities as some people seem to think. There are many, many bad apples and when that's all you are exposed to you are going to believe that is the community. I mean look at the CoD community, they have a stereotype and people believe it because that's all they see of them. There is no way the stereotype is the majority since the community is so large, yet the jackasses are the most vocal part so they become the stereotype.

[Purple]

I'm not saying that it is shocking and new, what I'm saying is no one has the right to act like the GW2 community is the holy grail of gaming communities as some people seem to think. There are many, many bad apples and when that's all you are exposed to you are going to believe that is the community. I mean look at the CoD community, they have a stereotype and people believe it because that's all they see of them.

I don't see the point of your stance. A few bad apples don't represent anyone, in any situation. Ignore them. Jessey was wrong to deliver a judgment on the game before actually having played it to any real extent. He even admitted that in the long run. That was an issue, and more level headed people called him out on it without going overboard. He, and TB, just chose to concentrate on the bad apples, because it made them look better. It's the reason people typically concentrate on the bad apples in a community, because it allows them to brush aside the ideas and points of the more level headed people.

[PACOX]

Well MMO-Champ, I am impressed. 3 pages and no flame war or fanboism. /r/guildwars2 wouldn't have burned his account into the group by now.

Stay classy people. The Internet is watching.

[Lannden]

I don't see the point of your stance. A few bad apples don't represent anyone, in any situation. Ignore them. Jessey was wrong to deliver a judgment on the game before actually having played it to any real extent. He even admitted that in the long run. That was an issue, and more level headed people called him out on it without going overboard. They just chose to concentrate on the bad apples, because it made them look better. It's reason people typically concentrate on the bad apples in a community, because it allows them to brush aside the ideas and points of the more level headed people.

My stance is that the bad apples were the most vocal part at that time. When all you see is 2 pages of death threats about GW2 on a video totally unrelated to GW2 the average person is going to assume the GW2 community is a bunch of crazy people. It doesn't matter if we know that's not true, first impressions are everything.

[Purple]

My stance is that the bad apples were the most vocal part at that time.

No, they're simply the ones they concentrated on.

the average person is going to assume the GW2 community is a bunch of crazy people. It doesn't matter if we know that's not true, first impressions are everything.

And again, concentrating on the bad apples, as if the rest of the community does not exist. That's not a flaw in the community. That's a flaw in the perceptions of other people who think, I, you, or anyone else, somehow have control over what the bad apples do. I don't. You don't. We don't. I cannot control the minds of the populace, because if I could, trust me, we would not be having this conversation. And I'd have a servant making me tea, straight, no milk or sugar they just ruin the flavor. If it doesn't taste good straight then the pot of tea is entirely wrong in the first place.

..

I don't know where the tea tangent came from.

[Lannden]

That's the problem though, like the phrase says a few bad apples ruin the bunch. People see those people wanting to kill Jesse for having an opinion about a video game, however flawed it was, first impressions tell them "Woah these GW2 people are crazy." That sticks, no matter how dumb or silly it is, it sticks. My point was the community is not perfect like some people like to act.

But this is getting fairly off topic so I say it should end here.

[Cuchulainn]

People threatening to kill people because their opinions clash: this is new and concerning to you?
Welcome to the internet, enjoy your stay.

Anyway, people don't have to like GW2. It's not like it's going to be the end of the world if a few people dislike it. The really shitty part is when people quit and go around spouting fallacies like not having mounts in the game is going to cause the universe to implode. Those kinds of people are usually the people looking for something different than WoW but come back around to complain how GW2 isn't like WoW. Irony, masochism, retardation; whatever you wanna call it. That's all there is to it.

[Purple]

That's the problem though, like the phrase says a few bad apples ruin the bunch.

The phrase is a gross generalization, especially when applies to living, thinking and breathing Human beings. I am not responsible, the community is not responsible, for the actions of a few bad apples and the people that can't see that are grossly generalizing the community. That's a flaw in the bad apples, not the community. That's a flaw in the people that associate the entire community with the bad apples, not the community. Those people and the bad apples are the only ones in the wrong, the community that either avoided the situation entirely, or gave their opinion in a level headed manner, are just fine.

You're acting like there's a game community, or any community, in existence, that doesn't have bad apples. None of them should be judged off the bad apples.

[Deleted]

But that's the problem, if that's all you are exposed to of that population you are going to assume that is the population. It wasn't just one person either, one of his videos had two full pages of just horrible things directed at him from different accounts.

Er...no. Do you assume all football supporters are hooligans?

People need to have the brains to realise that the vocal minority isn't representative of the community. People need to be taught this in school, apparently.

[terrahero]

Er...no. Do you assume all football supporters are hooligans?

People need to have the brains to realise that the vocal minority isn't representative of the community. People need to be taught this in school, apparently.

Its the same as the violent video gamer-theory. I believe people are mixing up the cause and effect. Is GW2 breeding fanboys? Or did people just find something to fanboy over?

[Cuchulainn]

Idiots don't create fayboyism.
Fanboyism creates idiots.

The vocal minority is always right, no matter what. Think of it like customers; even if you have 12 customers who're completely satisfied with your product, and 1 who says it's shitty, then that 1 serson is still right. Additionally, as a good business owner you will find a way to explain to him how your product works and please him no matter what. If the silent "majority" existed, then they'd be vocal too, but they aren't therefore there's no evidence of them existing. Let's say this silent "majority" exists and has the same concerns as the vocal "minority" but to a lesser degree. Perhaps they're not vocal because they have better things to do than bitch about a game on a web forum.

We'll never know though because they're not vocal. However, fan boys will continue to imply that the silent "majority" is automatically on their side, because it's convenient for them when their arguments are failing. And that folks... is how Richard Nixon got into the oval office.

Class dismissed.

[Edge-]

Idiots don't create fayboyism.
Fanboyism creates idiots.

The vocal minority is always right, no matter what. Think of it like customers; even if you have 12 customers who're completely satisfied with your product, and 1 who says it's shitty, then that 1 serson is still right. Additionally, as a good business owner you will find a way to explain to him how your product works and please him no matter what. If the silent "majority" existed, then they'd be vocal too, but they aren't therefore there's no evidence of them existing. Let's say this silent "majority" exists and has the same concerns as the vocal "minority" but to a lesser degree. Perhaps they're not vocal because they have better things to do than bitch about a game on a web forum.

We'll never know though because they're not vocal. However, fan boys will continue to imply that the silent "majority" is automatically on their side, because it's convenient for them when their arguments are failing. And that folks... is how Richard Nixon got into the oval office.

Class dismissed.

Not even remotely correct.

Go to any games forums, or heck, go to the WoW forums on this site. They're FILLED with people complaining, claiming they're quitting, talking shit about the game, or doomsaying. But that's RARELY even close to a reflection of the reality for the game. WoW specifically is the best example. If you went by the forums (the vocal minority), you would expect the game to be almost completely dead as the majority of the players HATE the game and the developer and blah blah. But it still has over 10 million subscribers despite all the complaints, proclaimed quitters and doomsayers. Heck, SWTOR still has over 1 million subscribers despite proclamation that the game is "dead", making it the third most populace subscription only MMO around.

There is something to be said for the vocal minority, as they are the most upset or the most involved with the game (biggest fans or haters), but they are by no means even remotely close to a good representation of the purchasers of a product.

[Cuchulainn]

Well yes, I did state the negative side only, didn't I? My bad.
It would go both ways too. Let's say you got the "vocal minority" saying a game is great, any readers only hears praise, yet supposedly the "silent majority" absolutely hates it and at the same time loves it. The only thing people are going to hear is what the "minority is saying" anyway. It just doesn't add up. My post was more pointing toward how much the "silent majority" argument is comeplete bullshit and shouldn't be used. It's just a tactic that debate losers deploy while they're getting pounded by facts.

I think that everyone only sees one side in the "vocal minority" they think "either it's bad or it's good", but really there's a ton of different views to be seen from this "vocal minority". It pisses me off to hear people even use the words "minority" and "majority", it's just a slick way of saying "the people talking are white and black idiots and everyone who isn't saying anything must agree with me". WTF kind of logic is that?! Yet...people are actually feeding into it. People actually believe that shit, and it's sad.

The point is: it's a fail route to draw a counterargument with, no one will never know what non-posters think, and the minority isn't white or black. People who post on forums aren't all complainers, or haters, or naysayers, or Charlie Murphy, or fucking Santa Claus. People need to start thinking for themselves and stop letting retarded 1970 Nixon logic get to them.

[edit] sorry for the passionate post. I just get so ticked about this kind of propaganda.

[Vallin]

Man this thread got derailed. But yeah Anet was awesome for me. They let me cancel my pre-order. Not cus I didnt like the game, just because I am starting grad school in the fall and wont have time to play for at least a year so they gave me a refund. Very nice customer support, almost on par with blizzard phone support.