Enhance Reroll Time?

[Ikkarus]

Well, just look at the new talent tree, there's nothing for enhancement there. Even new models for Ferals Spirit (and spirit wolf) we get, while druids and locks has new models every expansion, so, yeah, it's obvious that blizzard doesn't care, not only with enhance, but with shamans as a whole.


[User was infracted for this post]

[Scratches]

I've been maining my enh shaman since April of '05, and, frankly, I'm tired of feeling like I'm getting the raw deal.
For the majority of the game, we've always been an expansion behind in regards to receiving "desired" (*cough*necessary) utility; along the way we were effectively told that "No, you can't play the way you want any more," in regards to using 2h weapons (even though we still have the appropriate weapon skill, and other classes are more-or-less balanced fine around having this sort of choice); and while we're getting some useful changes for Mists (e.g. buffs totems now becoming permanent auras), it still feels like we're just being patted on the head and told to sit down and shush while the grown-ups play...

So, yeah... slightly hyperbolic, but I'm indefinitely benching the shaman and rerolling as well. I've had enough -- and account-wide mounts/titles makes it even easier (possible?) for me to say this.

To what class, though? That's still up in the air... priest, monk, paladin, hunter, warrior... maybe dk. *shrug*

[darqhur]

There is a part of me that feels like it wouldn't be the shaman class if the shaman players didn't feel completely overlooked and neglected. These threads have been common for so long now it's like saying hello to an old friend.

[Endus]

Enhancement got plenty of attention in MoP. A lot of changes directly focused towards them, and community requests. If you aren't seeing them, then you either just aren't looking, or you're dismissing all the good stuff to focus exclusively on the bad, while ignoring all the bad stuff everyone else faces to focus on their good. It's just another iteration of the idea that the grass is always greener on the other guy's side of the fence, an attitude that's so old there's a tired cliche for it.

That doesn't mean there aren't still things that could be improved on, but everyone has that right now. Literally everyone.

[Dirtyfist]

Are you joking?

Enhc has been one of the simplest melee specs to play in single target since the start of Cata (outside parts of 4.2 spell power weapons where we hardcasted LvB and tab flame shocking fire novas earlier) and it's not changing in MoP going by beta.

Pre Cata Enhance and feral cat were the 2 most demanding dps specs to learn and play with next to 0 room for fucking up. Cata increased the cooldown on some of enhances' abilities and the change to mangle being 1 min target debuff ( or is it 5 cant remember atm ) greatly freed up both feral and enhance priorities. I play all other classes in the game and their specs enhance and feral cat are the 2 top challenging specs to play followed closely by shadow priest in the caster category. Think before you type please.

[Deleted]

I've maxed two Warriors (Arms/Fury), two DKs (Frost/Unholy), a Paladin (Retribution), a Shaman (Enhancement) and a hunter (Beast Mastery) and I can say that by far the Enhancement Shaman has the most complicated rotation. Funny, cause you'd say I know what to press after 6 years of 'hancing.

But yeah no way in hell Ench could be classes "simple" rotation wise.

[SpaceJam]

I am glad I've decided Enhancement is the worst spec in the game, and doesn't come close to Resto or Ele competitiveness. That's what I hope it boils down to because I would love to play Enhancement, but there are SOOOO many better melee classes to bring to a raid. Not to mention Enhancement will always be lower DPS until their Haste issues are resolved.

And to everyone stating Enhancement has a complicated rotation, you're wrong. First it is a priority system not a rotation, I won't explain it for you I'm most of you already know. Enhancement Shamans have no resources to burn, really no procs to watch for (I don't count Maelstrom), and a total of 3 major buttons to push (LL SS and FS.) Obviously I'm paraphrasing and simplifying a little bit, but fact remains their "rotation" and spec is broken. There isn't a spec in the game that has as much accumulated downtime as Enhancement. DKs have their Frost Strike and Death Coils, Warriors have their Heroic Strike and whatnot, Rogues have the best energy source in the game, Pallies have their Holy Power (which helped them clear up their downtime I MIGHT ADD.) You get my point I hope.

---------- Post added 2012-06-23 at 01:46 AM ----------

Enhancement got plenty of attention in MoP. A lot of changes directly focused towards them, and community requests. If you aren't seeing them, then you either just aren't looking, or you're dismissing all the good stuff to focus exclusively on the bad, while ignoring all the bad stuff everyone else faces to focus on their good. It's just another iteration of the idea that the grass is always greener on the other guy's side of the fence, an attitude that's so old there's a tired cliche for it.

That doesn't mean there aren't still things that could be improved on, but everyone has that right now. Literally everyone.

Attention in all the wrong areas. I don't understand why you are so obsessed with Shaman being the perfect class. You always seem to come off as someone who thinks Shaman are absolutely perfect the way they are. Never have anything to improve on, and anytime anyone ever suggest something to improve the class you shoot it down or give us your two cents on how your idea is better balanced or does some special kind of fart. And don't forget to cover your ass by saying "Oh there's always things we can improve upon." We get it you're right and we're wrong... good thing for me is I don't like you and I think you are wrong a lot of the time.

User was infracted for this because he said he didn't like me meeeeeeeeeeeh lol.

[loktargaming]

I'd hate to say it but Enhancement will be dead in MOP. Yes we got some cool stuff and lost some cool stuff, but the talent's are a joke from the Enhancement point of view. I have played all most every class/spec in the game in PVP and PVE, and Enhancement is the funest spec i have found. It's kinda sad to see such a fun spec go to waste. It's kinda funny tho to see all the shaman's that say Enhancement is fine now and will be fine in MOP but if you look at all there armory every one is ele/ele, ele/resto and resto/resto. Thay just dont want Blizz to take a good look at how retardedly op and face roll there spec's are.

[Barky]

That doesn't mean there aren't still things that could be improved on, but everyone has that right now. Literally everyone.

This is pretty much what is keeping me hopeful, I mean they dont even have release dates announced and they've only just started raid testing, this will be the time where you can see where shamans are in comparison to other classes, especially when they finally sort out addons able to come on and someone puts in a MoP recount.

[Emophia]

Pre Cata Enhance and feral cat were the 2 most demanding dps specs to learn and play with next to 0 room for fucking up. Cata increased the cooldown on some of enhances' abilities and the change to mangle being 1 min target debuff ( or is it 5 cant remember atm ) greatly freed up both feral and enhance priorities. I play all other classes in the game and their specs enhance and feral cat are the 2 top challenging specs to play followed closely by shadow priest in the caster category. Think before you type please.

Yes because WOTLK enhc is relevant now.

WOTLK enhc was good, your skill and your ability to react mattered, now any retard that can look at a CD can play enhc to almost max potential.

Ferals may have been made simpler, but even then they retained their interesting and fun playstyle,

Enhc is, hit your 4 abilities on CD and look at MW.

We have no resources to keep track off, no pets, our only proc is MW, we have one dot that we want to maximize uptime with UE, and one totem we have to put down once every minute, and 1 horrible dps cd. Its retardly easy.

It's WOTLK ret all over again, you can barely tell an amazing enhc from a horrible one that just mashes buttons because of how faceroll it is.

In wotlk we had many more abilities to hit and MW mattered a lot more due to it being top prio because LB was our hardest hitting thing making the spec much more dynamic, in tbc we had to totem twist.

If you think enhc is not stupidly simple to play and one of the simplest melee in the game you're a bad player, plain and simple.


[User was infracted for this post]

"If you don't agree with me you're bad" is not acceptable posting.

[Deleted]

If you think enhc is not stupidly simple to play and one of the simplest melee in the game you're a bad player, plain and simple.

At the end of the day, any dps-class is easy to play after some getting used to. However calling a player bad because he finds the enhancement priority list a little more demanding compared to other classes I find a tad ignorant.

Besides, all the hate I have recently read about the whole Enhancement mechanics.. Do we realy have to even out all meele specs? I for one absolutly love the Enhancement mechanic, if you prefer a resource based dps-spec go reroll a rogue or feral cat. I have the feeling that many people shy away from actually trying to adapt to current mechanics, trying to push every bit of potential out of their charachter, instead they will keep telling themselfes how horrible the class they play is designed.

Right now for both Shaman dps-sepcs you can tell very quickly who knows how to play well and who doesn´t.

[Darleth]

At the end of the day, any dps-class is easy to play after some getting used to. However calling a player bad because he finds the enhancement priority list a little more demanding compared to other classes I find a tad ignorant.

Besides, all the hate I have recently read about the whole Enhancement mechanics.. Do we realy have to even out all meele specs? I for one absolutly love the Enhancement mechanic, if you prefer a resource based dps-spec go reroll a rogue or feral cat. I have the feeling that many people shy away from actually trying to adapt to current mechanics, trying to push every bit of potential out of their charachter, instead they will keep telling themselfes how horrible the class they play is designed.

Right now for both Shaman dps-sepcs you can tell very quickly who knows how to play well and who doesn´t.

You fail to see the Point. Yes, every DPS Class is "easy to play after getting used to it" - but they still have MORE things to watch then we do.
Example:
Frost DK's have quite a simple priority list. They gotta keep up their dots, gotta spend all their rune power (btw, their mechanic!), got ALOT MORE defensives and offensive cooldowns to do more stuff then we're doing right now in cata or even in mop.
Now look at the enhancement shaman. What do we have? 1 Totem that we have to cast every minute, 1 Dot which we'll always use in combination with Unleash Elements just to get the most out of it, Storm Strike and Lava Lash. Our "Offensive Cooldown", called FERAL SPIRIT, isn't doing anything at all, neither on live nor on the beta server - in fact, I feel they're doing less on beta right now than their doing on live. The only good thing we got is Ascendance, which is, compared to the elemental ascendance or other, similar effects, extremely weak and buggy (not proccing on hit stack-trinkets as an example). And the Fire Elemental isn't that great too, even though it's useful now on beta.

Just to sum the cooldowns up that there are now on live servers:
Frost DK: Anti Magic Shell (Spell DMG-Absorb), Icebound Fortitude (% Damage Reduce), Ghoul (DPS Cooldown), refreshing runeweapon (more burst potential), Pillar of Frost (Damage Increase) and Army of the Dead (another DPS/Tank cooldown).
Enhancement: Earth Elemental Totem (LOLOLOLOL DPS COOLDOWN) Feral Spirits (laughable DPS Cooldown), Heroism/Bloodlust (DPS CD - no shaman needed, more useful for the whole raid than for us) and Shamanistic Rage.

Now tell me, who got more to do, to use and whatnot? Clearly its the Frost DK in this case.

Just to mention another thing: Frost DK's are scaling better with most of their secondary stats than us. We even get nerfed and get a "Hastebuff", which wont do anything for us, at all. It'll do something after 4918237981927 tiers, maybe.

Our MW-Mechanic is bad and could be better, but Blizzard wont see this, they didnt see it within the whole cataclysm expansion pack and tried to increase our damage with Storm Strike and Lava Lash. They made our AoE better, but seriously? Its still bad. A good raid won't take any Enhancement Shamans with them because they'll be lower in DPS and Raid Support at all times. Why take an enhancement Shaman, when you could take an Ele Shaman that does more damage, has better AoE Potential and brings the same raid support, even better at some points? This is one of the things why the Enhancement Spec needs a FULL REDESIGN or atleast a good buff to all the things we can do with that spec. And no, we don't have to even out ALL Melee Specs, but you guys cant deny that we're not in a good place.
To be honest: we wouldn't even need to use MW or skill it in the tree because of how bad it is.

[Deleted]

if you dont enjoy the class/spec just reroll into something else... you dont get extra points for being a martyr. You should atleast give it a shoy close to the end of beta as things tend to change.

[Deleted]

I would love to see a full redesign of Enhancement. It's very much outdated and kind of laughable how terribad it strikes without Ascendance.


I don't understand - first of all, Blizzard said in blues that Enhancement's DPS will be fixed. They slightly buffed Windfury (and tbh, it's not stronger then live version) and now they're claiming "Enhances are perfect and what not", while everyone in the city is doing more and more damage.

[loktargaming]

if you dont enjoy the class/spec just reroll into something else... you dont get extra points for being a martyr. You should atleast give it a shoy close to the end of beta as things tend to change.

The problem is we all do enjoy playing Enhancement it's such a fun spec to play, But blizz just does not let us be let us be viable in end game raiding and high end PVP. With out realm transfer and faction changing all over the place to find peple that will slot a Enhancement in raid or high ranked PVP.

[Aoyi]

Enhance damage is relatively low on beta at the moment, but I'm still hoping it will get tweaked before release. Everything takes way too long to kill as our attacks are hitting for less than they feel they should.

[Deleted]

if you dont enjoy the class/spec just reroll into something else... you dont get extra points for being a martyr. You should atleast give it a shoy close to the end of beta as things tend to change.

I think the entire point of these threads is that people enjoy the class but don't want to see it being turned into something trivial and useless. I'm pretty sure everyone here (besides the white totem knights) wants to play Shaman as a competitive, fun class, but just fears that the expansion will once again fail to address the class's weaknesses and... well, oddities.

[Deleted]

You fail to see the Point. Yes, every DPS Class is "easy to play after getting used to it" - but they still have MORE things to watch then we do.

"Other classes have more things to watch"

This doesnt make Enhacement a bad spec.

Frost DK's

Refering to one of the two meele specs that currently sim lower than enhacement, great.. (unless your raid desperatly needs the meele haste?!)

got ALOT MORE defensives and offensive cooldowns

Alright, Enhancement Cooldowns:

1. Shamanistic Rage
2. Glyphed Stonceclaw Totem
3. Earth Elemental (very competitive with a Frost DK´s Ghoul dmg..)
4. Fire Elemental (viable for Enhancement in many situations)
5. Feral Spirits (indeed low in dmg, however both a defensive cd - healing - and a viable offensice cd with the t13 4p bonus)
6. SWG (does bring advantages when you want to clear your mw stacks during heavy movement phases)
7. Bloodlust

With MoP we will recieve a very strong 3 min. dps cd, calling it bad because it currently bugs on the beta is just comedy. Also Fire Elemental Totem will be another major DPS cooldown for Enhancement shaman even without speccing into Prime Elementalist.
So we do have more than enough cooldowns we have to take care off, in the end however it is not the amount of couldowns a class offers but proper execution & synergy of boths cd´s and priority list that will yield in a good raid performance.

Frost DK's are scaling better with most of their secondary stats than us

I dont know that much about frost DK´s so I cant comment whether thats true or not, however it is true that Enhancement should be scalling better with haste, e.g. having haste reduce the ss and/or ll cd.

Our MW-Mechanic is bad

Yes? Why?

They made our AoE better, but seriously? Its still bad

Another very subjective statement which is not true. Delaying a certain cooldown for a few seconds resulting in a greater dps gain later on doesnt make a mechanic bad.

A good raid won't take any Enhancement Shamans with them because they'll be lower in DPS and Raid Support at all times.

And here we go again; unless you are raiding in a top top guild where its not about player ability anymore but about current class mechanics, you will always gain a raidspot when you play your class/spec to its fullest potential. Also saying we are low on raidsupport is laughable, few classes have a greater arsenal of raidbuffs than shamans (any spec) do.

Why take an enhancement Shaman, when you could take an Ele Shaman

Comparing apples and oranges

FULL REDESIGN

And how might that look? Resource system? Even more Raidbuffs? We dont need a full redesign, we need to scale better with haste, making the t13 4p bonus a general FS ability would also be nice.

but you guys cant deny that we're not in a good place.

We are in a good place, good place = right in the middle. Theres just too many people that expect to see nice dps numbers floating around their screen after pressing ss and ll. And then ,instead of playing Enhancement shaman as a whole, unique meele class it is, they will complain about "broken/outdated" mechanics.

we wouldn't even need to use MW or skill it in the tree because of how bad it is.

: /


Heres the thing:

1. Fix haste scalling, maybe make it reduce SS and LL cd.
2. Generally bake the 4p t13 bonus into Feral Spirits.
3. Maybe also make LB a little harder hitting, however I think its in a good spot right now.

I think the entire point of these threads is that people enjoy the class but don't want to see it being turned into something trivial and useless. I'm pretty sure everyone here (besides the white totem knights) wants to play Shaman as a competitive, fun class, but just fears that the expansion will once again fail to address the class's weaknesses and... well, oddities.

Completly agree with you. However nothing yet is final, many good changes were done to the shaman class in general, but also to Enhancement. Also I am convinced that the flurry/haste change is only the beginning of a much more complex change in haste scalling that has yet to be implemented. At least thats what I´m hoping for :/

[Satori]

There's one thing still keeping me mildly interested in an Enh Shaman: http://mop.wowhead.com/spell=126207

If indeed everyone gets a shot at a legendary and that nature damage is a proc...shamans are gonna be crazy having it scale with mastery. If that happens we'll probably end up with terrible balance where Enh without legendary weapons is the worst dps spec in the game and, with it, the best or up to bar with everyone else.

[Nowucme]

i have been an enhance shaman my entire wow career (7 yrs and counting). it is the first toon i lvl at the begining of an xpac due to my love for what the spec could be and the first that gets put back on the shelf due to what it is. We are undoubtedly in a better place now 7 yrs later but that doesn't make us viable in endgame. Not if your guild is serious about being competetive at raiding on ur server. Sure you can bring an enhance to a raid and do ok, but if ur having a tough time progressing we are quickly looked at as a possible toon to replace. we don't bring much raid utility that can't be brought by another class with better dps. we can't really off heal or tank like we used to even though we are balanced around that ability still. Until we reach a point to where once you choose to be a dps you lose that ability, we and other hybrid classes will always be handcuffed and handicapped.