Fat People and Smokers

[Rukh]

Smoking is specifically a choice, not a resultant circumstance. Being fat is a resulting circumstance. It could be from lazy behavior but it can also be from a ton of other things, and that is a primary difference. You don't know the person, you don't know why they are overweight. We don't insult people for having lung cancer.

[CryptFiend]

Passive smoke is laughable at best. For you to be affected by passive smoke you would have to sit under a smokers ass.

[Stede]

Usual argument, but also bear in mind obesity is causing massive economic problems by putting enormous strain on most countries healthcare and welfare systems. Being obese is not victimless. Also, last time I checked, someone who smokes still can work and pay tax. Someone who is documentary level fat can only sit there and eat pizza.

And someone dying of lung and throat cancer can only lie in a hospital bed and talk through a machine. Someone who is 250 lbs can still type up a sales forecast.

Does the irony in this strike you?

[killtehnoob]

Probably because there are genetic tendencies and diseases and side effects from medicine that can cause people to be prone to weight gain. So when you call someone out for being fat, it may not be because they have the horrid habits that is assumed.

There is no valid reason for someone to start and continue smoking. It's 100% choice, therefore easier to criticize.

Plus there is some PC societal stuff clinging around that says criticizing someone from being overweight is wrong.

They are both bad lifestyles IMO.

america, where being fat is genetic and being gay is a choice. Most people that are fat are fat because they eat too much. Who cares, she should have kept her comment to herself rather than imposing her view on others, just like people shouldn't impose their view on fat people. If you want to smoke, smoke, if you want to over eat then over eat. If you want to be not fat or a nonsmoker then take the steps to change, otherwise don't. But that's up to the individual, not some random jackass that says "hey, smoking is bad'. Oh gee, thanks.

[Deleted]

Passive smoke is laughable at best. For you to be affected by passive smoke you would have to sit under a smokers ass.

Or have Asthma like me i cant walk close to someone smoking without feeling like im coughing up my own lungs.

[Rukh]

Passive smoke is laughable at best. For you to be affected by passive smoke you would have to sit under a smokers ass.

Here, have some facts. Not that I expect facts to have any impact on your opinion. Hasn't so far.
http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerC...condhand-smoke

[Aalyy]

Not strictly true, the problems with obesity are far more reaching. Obviously I am picking an extreme case here, but let's say a woman who is 900lbs and cannot leave her house has a heart attack. She then has to be craned out, have the fire brigade cut her out, then have builders rebuild her home, all the while costing the taxpayer a feckton as she is too lardy to be able to work.
As I said, I don't agree with either, and both can be a drain on the economy healthwise, but at least a smoker is able to contribute economically by being able to work. I don't think Miss 900lb super lardy is going to be able to do that (unless she starts some kind of horrific webcam sex service, but that's too horrific to contemplate...)

Obesity is an enormous problem, but its dismissed too much by people as "Oh, it only affects the one person". It doesn't, it has far reaching effects well beyond the initial observations, and with all honesty in my eyes, needs to be treated just as seriously and with the same mentality as smoking. As the OP said, its "Ok" to rant at a smoker, but not ok to tell a super size person to lay off the chips?

So how would an otherwise "normal" person get to be 900 lbs in the first place?

[Activi-T]

And increase the cost of healthcare for everyone and cause discomfort in movie theaters and airplanes. I cause people discomfort on airplanes too, but that's because I'm very tall and lanky and barely fit in those tiny seats.

I'm sorry I wasn't aware those things are detrimental to the health of others. This was the fundamental point that I was making. The fact you are directly damaging another persons well being.

[Reeve]

Not strictly true, the problems with obesity are far more reaching. Obviously I am picking an extreme case here, but let's say a woman who is 900lbs and cannot leave her house has a heart attack. She then has to be craned out, have the fire brigade cut her out, then have builders rebuild her home, all the while costing the taxpayer a feckton as she is too lardy to be able to work.
As I said, I don't agree with either, and both can be a drain on the economy healthwise, but at least a smoker is able to contribute economically by being able to work. I don't think Miss 900lb super lardy is going to be able to do that (unless she starts some kind of horrific webcam sex service, but that's too horrific to contemplate...)

My father was 600 lbs for more than a decade (he's back down to 300ish lbs now), and was pulling in around $130k a year. Saying super fat people can't contribute to society is a bit silly.

[DeeEss]

Probably because there are genetic tendencies and diseases and side effects from medicine that can cause people to be prone to weight gain. So when you call someone out for being fat, it may not be because they have the horrid habits that is assumed.

You're absolutely right, but what percentage of the obese are we looking at here? I'd say the vast majority of obese people I've spoken with regarding their weight has claimed that it's one of those problems. Is it an epidemic?

[Reeve]

I'm sorry I wasn't aware those things are detrimental to the health of others. This was the fundamental point that I was making. The fact you are directly damaging another persons well being.

You don't think economic well being and physical comfort are reasonable discussion points for this conversation?

[CryptFiend]

And someone dying of lung and throat cancer can only lie in a hospital bed and talk through a machine. Someone who is 250 lbs can still type up a sales forecast.

Does the irony in this strike you?

Because you know the overweight are invulnerable to cancer

[Deleted]

Well, for me it is easier to criticize a smoker than a fat man, because some fat people are so due to genetics. Yeah, life sometimes can be unfair.
If I don't know the real motif why someone is fat, I am not goingto jump into conclusions and judge his/her food habits right away.
I am going to assume he was unfortunately with his/her gene pool, unless I bluntly see him practicing bad eating habits.

A smoker doesn't born like that. As far as I know, there aren't any pre-predispositions before birth to make him one.
So he chooses to be one, at some point of his life. The reasons may vary. Some of my friends become addicted because they wanted to "blend in" groups, be the "cool guy", etc.

Also, it is an addiction that harms yourself as well as others. A fat man doesn't do any harm to you, by just being fat.
Unless he stuffs pizza slices down your throat.

[Tzalix]

Smoking is specifically a choice, not a resultant circumstance. Being fat is a resulting circumstance. It could be from lazy behavior but it can also be from a ton of other things, and that is a primary difference. You don't know the person, you don't know why they are overweight. We don't insult people for having lung cancer.

In the majority of cases, however, being obese is just as much a choice as smoking is. They eat more than they move. What a mystery.

Furthermore, when I smoke, I do stay away from crowds and non-smokers. It's called respect.
The next time someone lights a fag next to you, and you don't want a share of the lovely tar, simply ask him to move away.
If he doesn't move, then the problem isn't that he's a smoker. The problem is that he's an asshole.

Passive smoking is a problem because people smoke respectlessly without thinking about who they're standing next to. The same reason car accidents are a problem because people drive recklessly.

[Sodka]

Soo after walking to get a pack of cigarettes this Obese woman told me cigarettes were bad and that it would make me die young.

Why is it easier to criticize a smoker than a Fat person.

Its more socially acceptable to say something to a smoker, compared to someone who is several obese. It will take a long time before it does become more socially acceptable I think though? If you go up to a smoker and say something like "I don't think you should be smoking that here!" then that is accepted then going up to a obese person and saying "I don't think you should be eating that"

[Lenonis]

Most people that are fat are fat because they eat too much.

Most, but not all. So when you insult a fat person you don't know for sure that they are that way by choice. You know for sure that a smoker chose to smoke.

Who cares, she should have kept her comment to herself rather than imposing her view on others

Well yes, that I agree with.

If you want to smoke, smoke, if you want to over eat then over eat. [snip] But that's up to the individual, not some random jackass that says "hey, smoking is bad'. Oh gee, thanks.

except it's not that cut and dry. Second hand smoke affects others. Both create health issues that create an economic drain on society. It's nice to say that people can do what they want, but the reality is behavior has consequences, not only for themselves, but for others. It certainly isn't the job of some random stranger to criticize, but society as a whole should be able to do what they can to protect themselves from the financial and health consequences of the bad choices of others.

[Erous]

Passive smoke is laughable at best. For you to be affected by passive smoke you would have to sit under a smokers ass.

No offense, but you don't seem to be very in tune with what smoking does. There's nothing like cycling up a large hill, breathing heavily and struggling to get the bike going, only to have someone in a car pass by blow their smoke in my way. And this is from a car in the open air, typically traveling 25mph or more and I still am able to breath it in.

Cigarette smoke is not as easily distributed in the air as you think.

Edit: Not saying the exhaust from cars is any better...but, the fact that I can still breathe it in is the point I'm getting at.

[Reeve]

Not saying they cannot, I was specifically utilising an extreme example, but we simply do NOT have the full gamut of information that obesity will cause down the line, the research just hasn't been done for long enough, but the stuff thats been done already is scaring the shit out of healthcare professionals already.

The point the OP is making though, is that smoking is universally classified as "Bad", but obesity is just considered as "Oh, it just affects them" is a fallacy at best.

I would agree with that.

[CryptFiend]

Here, have some facts. Not that I expect facts to have any impact on your opinion. Hasn't so far.
http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerC...condhand-smoke

Okay...
In that case we should criticize people who drive cars because you know exhaust gases are equally as unhealthy as ShS and is on a larger scale.

[Lenonis]

You're absolutely right, but what percentage of the obese are we looking at here? I'd say the vast majority of obese people I've spoken with regarding their weight has claimed that it's one of those problems. Is it an epidemic?

My point was you don't know if the person you are talking to is fat by lifestyle or fat by other reasons. You know the smoker is smoking due to a choice. Hence the reason (I believe) people feel more comfortable confronting smokers.