Fat People and Smokers

[Stede]

Because you know the overweight are invulnerable to cancer

No, because I can count. And I know smokers develop cancer at higher rates than the obese.

The point isn't that smoking is dumber than being fat. It's that both are dumb and a dumb person calling another dumb person dumb may strike smaller minds as hypocritical, but it strikes me as simply true.

[Activi-T]

You don't think economic well being and physical comfort are reasonable discussion points for this conversation?

Certainly. In a discussion about which is the lesser of two evils. However the OP brought up the fact that this woman believes that fat people live longer than smokers and it's ultimately more acceptable to be fat. Maybe I just presumed that the OP was intending this to be a health discussion.

[Rukh]

Okay...
In that case we should criticize people who drive cars because you know exhaust gases are equally as unhealthy as ShS and is on a larger scale.

If you're just going to randomly make things up why are you wasting your time pushing the post button???

[Lenonis]

The point isn't that smoking is dumber than being fat. It's that both are dumb and a dumb person calling another dumb person dumb may strike smaller minds as hypocritical, but it strikes me as simply true.

Put another way, just because you are being hypocritical doesn't mean you are wrong.

[Kajimo]

= but it can also be from a ton of other things, and that is a primary difference. You don't know the person, you don't know why they are overweight.

This is something I wish more people would realize, A few people on my family are rather overweight, but it's mostly due to thyroid issues, or the result of medications used to correct said issues.

[jkfremin]

Lmfao I can't take you serious

I lived with a smoker (who smoked in the house) for 2 years. After 2-3 months of strained breathing and coughing, I went to the doctor and I had to get an inhaler because I had reactions to the secondhand smoke.

At least being fat doesn't directly force other people to be fat, while smoking in a confined area forces everyone else there to smoke with you (albeit to a lesser extent).

In addition, living with a smoker causes everyone's clothes and everything in the house to smell like cigarette smoke, so everywhere I went, I reeked. When I had eventually moved out of that house and didn't have breathing problems anymore, I would go visit my girlfriend and her parents were both chain smokers. Even after just a one hour visit, I would have to go home and wash my clothes to get out the smell. People assumed I smoked because I would smell so pungently just from a short trip to my girlfriend's.

[Grraarrgghh]

Here, have some facts. Not that I expect facts to have any impact on your opinion. Hasn't so far.
http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerC...condhand-smoke

The good science proponent in me wanted to check the references to this.

The references are either circular (ie, citing themselves in previous articles) or citing disproven studies (Pirkle JL, Flegal KM, Bernert JT, et al. Exposure of the US population to environmental tobacco smoke: The Third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, 1988 to 1991. JAMA. 1996;275:1233-1240), or citing articles with titles like `Formation of carcinogens indoors by surface-mediated reactions of nicotine with nitrous acid, leading to potential thirdhand smoke hazards`.

Very few, if any, verifiable sources that solidly confirm a link between second or third hand smoke and cancer.

Please science better.

[Queued]

This topic is dumb, with so many opinions that aren't even close to being backed scientifically.

Smoker doesn't want to be criticized for his bad choices by someone else who makes bad choices. Bad choices are bad choices, this thread is squabbling about nothing.

Also, you have to eat to live. You do not have to smoke to live, in fact it's been proven to decrease your life. Someone with an addiction to 'bad' food has made bad decisions on what they eat (perhaps because of their economic status? I'm not sure) which, combined with genetics and lack of exercise causes them to be 'fat'. So there are several factors at play for the 'fat' person. 1) Food, 2) Genetics, and 3) Exercise. Combine all three together and you have a bad combination.

A smoker, for whatever reason, decides at some point to put a cig (something to smoke) in their mouth and light it and inhale. You aren't addicted at first, it takes determination to become addicted, you have to keep doing it even though it isn't pleasant to do. Then you come to a point where it's second nature, and you don't want to stop. It gives you a feeling of relieved stress, a mild buzz, whatever. Then to stop altogether because you're developing some heart/lung condition requires more determination than anything you'll ever face, at which time it might be too late.

I'm not going to try to sound smart by rambling off stats about how it impacts tax payers. Don't be an idiot, they both impact tax payers. This whole argument is complete and utter waste of time, and I won't get these 5 minutes back again.

[Gheld]

Here's the problem:

"Smoking is bad." "over-eating is bad".

They are BOTH superfluous statements. Anybody who doesn't know smoking, or over-eating have negative health consequences by now needs to proceed over the edge of the nearest bridge to receive their Darwin award.

So when somebody sees somebody buying cigarettes and says "HURR SMOKING IS BAD." The only reason they are possibly making that assertion is either A. They are so stupid, that they think their knowledge of 'smoking is bad' is because of some inherent superiority of their own being, or because .B putting other people down makes them feel better about themselves, perhaps because they feel it misdirects attention from their own flaws.

As an ex smoker myself; having seen the immediate and profound benefits of quitting smoking, and put up with the annoying "HURR SMOKING IS BAD." crowd if I want to express genuine concern over the health hazards of somebody smoking I need only state;

"Hey, have you tried _____ stop smoking product? It worked really well for me, and I feel healthier than I ever have in my entire life!"

The logical approach is to first empathize.

"You know, my brother/girlfriend/dog walker/pool boy/grandma/transvestite hooker/self etc had trouble quitting."

Offer constructive advice, based on experience:

"The patch/gum/lozenges/e-cigarette etc, really worked for me/my brother/my mom/my health care practitioner/etc"

Then finish it off by saying something positive:

"And then my brother BEAT THE CANCER!" "I was finally able to hug my niece without worrying about her asthma" "I ran a fucking marathon for the first time in my life!" "I upgraded from a geo metro to a fucking escalade!"

This is the approach that I take with friends/family/coworkers/strangers I encounter that show contempt for the fact that they are hooked. It gets them actually thinking about it, rather than just making them feel like I have joined in on the relentless assault of superfluous assertions. If you can't be bothered to take the extra 20 seconds to say "My brother tried the ____, and it helped him quit, and now he can play catch with his son without worrying about his asthma." then you really don't give a fuck, and you are just being a douche bag.

The end.

[CryptFiend]

This topic is dumb, with so many opinions that aren't even close to being backed scientifically.

Smoker doesn't want to be criticized for his bad choices by someone else who makes bad choices. Bad choices are bad choices, this thread is squabbling about nothing.

Also, you have to eat to live. You do not have to smoke to live, in fact it's been proven to decrease your life. Someone with an addiction to 'bad' food has made bad decisions on what they eat (perhaps because of their economic status? I'm not sure) which, combined with genetics and lack of exercise causes them to be 'fat'. So there are several factors at play for the 'fat' person. 1) Food, 2) Genetics, and 3) Exercise. Combine all three together and you have a bad combination.

A smoker, for whatever reason, decides at some point to put a cig (something to smoke) in their mouth and light it and inhale. You aren't addicted at first, it takes determination to become addicted, you have to keep doing it even though it isn't pleasant to do. Then you come to a point where it's second nature, and you don't want to stop. It gives you a feeling of relieved stress, a mild buzz, whatever. Then to stop altogether because you're developing some heart/lung condition requires more determination than anything you'll ever face, at which time it might be too late.

I'm not going to try to sound smart by rambling off stats about how it impacts tax payers. Don't be an idiot, they both impact tax payers. This whole argument is complete and utter waste of time, and I won't get these 5 minutes back again.

Besides the fact that I couldn't careless about someone criticizing my habits it's the fact that they are just about equally as harmful but one is social acceptable while I get kicked off of property's and fined for smoking a cigarette

---------- Post added 2012-06-22 at 02:39 PM ----------

If you're just going to randomly make things up why are you wasting your time pushing the post button???

You should quote more Google searches you look more intelligent.

[IIamaKing]

How can smokers affect other people?

Self important Non-Smokers Unwilling to move 10 feet away might breath in some smoke.

[Deleted]

How can smokers affect other people?

Even though I used to smoke before I can't be close to smokers nowadays. Get problems breathing, feels like something just grabbing my throat and trying to suffocate me pretty much.

Fat people don't really effect me in that way.

Self important Non-Smokers Unwilling to move 10 feet away might breath in some smoke.

Would you willingly subject someone with say.. Asthma to smoke?

[Rukh]

The good science proponent in me wanted to check the references to this.

The references are either circular (ie, citing themselves in previous articles) or citing disproven studies (Pirkle JL, Flegal KM, Bernert JT, et al. Exposure of the US population to environmental tobacco smoke: The Third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, 1988 to 1991. JAMA. 1996;275:1233-1240), or citing articles with titles like `Formation of carcinogens indoors by surface-mediated reactions of nicotine with nitrous acid, leading to potential thirdhand smoke hazards`.

Very few, if any, verifiable sources that solidly confirm a link between second or third hand smoke and cancer.

Please science better.

Did you read the wrong article?

References
American Cancer Society. Cancer Facts & Figures 2012. Atlanta, Ga. 2012.

Betts KS. Secondhand Suspicions: Breast Cancer and Passive Smoking. Environ Health Perspect. 2007;115:A136-A143.

Borland R, Yong H-H, Siahpush M, et al. Support for and reported compliance with smoke-free restaurants and bars by smokers in four countries: findings from the International Tobacco Control (ITC) Four Country Survey. Tobacco Control. 2006;15(suppl 3):34-41.

California Environmental Protection Agency. Health Effects of Exposure to Environmental Tobacco Smoke. June 2005. Accessed at http://www.oehha.ca.gov/air/environm...3partb2005.pdf on November 7, 2011.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health. Current Intelligence Bulletin 54: Environmental Tobacco Smoke in the Workplace – Lung Cancer and Other Health Effects. 1991. (Publication No. 91-108) Accessed at http://www.nasdonline.org/document/1...ng-cancer.html on November 7, 2011.

Dreyfuss JH. Thirdhand smoke identified as potent, enduring carcinogen. CA Cancer J Clin. 2010;60(4):203-4.

Matt GE, Quintana PJ, Destaillats H, et al. Thirdhand tobacco smoke: emerging evidence and arguments for a multidisciplinary research agenda. Environ Health Perspect. 2011;119(9):1218-26.

Mennella JA, Yourshaw LM, Morgan LK. Breastfeeding and smoking: short-term effects on infant feeding and sleep. Pediatrics. 2007;120:497-502.

National Cancer Institute. Secondhand Smoke and Cancer. Accessed at http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f...et/Tobacco/ETS on November 2, 2011.

Pirkle JL, Flegal KM, Bernert JT, et al. Exposure of the US population to environmental tobacco smoke: The Third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, 1988 to 1991. JAMA. 1996;275:1233-1240.

Polyzos A, Schmid TE, Piña-Guzmán B, et al. Differential sensitivity of male germ cells to mainstream and sidestream tobacco smoke in the mouse. Toxicol Appl Pharmacol. 2009;237(3):298-305.

Public Health Law Center at William Mitchell College of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota. Kids, Cars and Cigarettes: A Brief Look at Policy Options for Smoke-Free Vehicles. April 2011. Accessed at http://publichealthlawcenter.org/sit...tions-2011.pdf on November 4, 2011.

Sleiman M, Gundel LA, Pankow JF, et al. Formation of carcinogens indoors by surface-mediated reactions of nicotine with nitrous acid, leading to potential thirdhand smoke hazards. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2010;107(15):6576-81.

US Department of Health and Human Services. Report on Carcinogens, 12th Edition. Public Health Service – National Toxicology Program. “Tobacco-Related Exposures,” pp 408-414. Accessed at http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/roc/twe...dExposures.pdf on November 1, 2011.

US Department of Health and Human Services. Children and Secondhand Smoke Exposure-Excerpts from The Health Consequences of Involuntary Exposure to Tobacco Smoke: A Report of the Surgeon General, 2007. Accessed at http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/librar...ure/index.html on November 3, 2011.

US Department of Health & Human Services. How Tobacco Smoke Causes Disease: The Biology and Behavioral Basis for Smoking-Attributable Disease: A Report of the Surgeon General. 2010. Accessed at http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/librar...oke/index.html on November 2, 2011.

US Department of Health and Human Services. The Health Consequences of Involuntary Exposure to Tobacco Smoke: A Report of the Surgeon General. 2006. Accessed at www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/secondhandsmoke/ on November 3, 2011.

US Department of Health and Human Services. The Health Consequences of Smoking: A Report of the Surgeon General. 2004. Accessed at http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/librar...ces/index.html on November 3, 2011.

US Environmental Protection Agency. Frequent Questions. Indoor Air Quality. What can I do about secondhand smoke coming from my neighbor's apartment? Accessed at http://iaq.supportportal.com/link/po...or-s-apartment on November 4, 2011.

US Environmental Protection Agency. Respiratory Health Effects of Passive Smoking (Also Known as Exposure to Secondhand Smoke or Environmental Tobacco Smoke ETS). US Environmental Protection Agency, Office of Research and Development, Office of Health and Environmental Assessment, Washington, DC; 1992. Accessed at http://cfpub.epa.gov/ncea/cfm/record....cfm?deid=2835 on November 2, 2011.

Winickoff JP, Friebely J, Tanski SE, et al. Beliefs about the health effects of “thirdhand” smoke and home smoking bans. Pediatrics. 2009;123(1):e74-79.

World Health Organization International Agency for Research on Cancer. Evaluating the Effectiveness of Smoke-free Policies, IARC Handbook of Cancer Prevention, Volume 13. 2009. “Chapter 2: Health effects of exposure to secondhand smoke (SHS),” pgs 9-58. Accessed at http://www.iarc.fr/en/publications/p...ndbook13-2.pdf on November 2, 2011.

World Health Organization International Agency for Research on Cancer. IARC Strengthens Its Findings on Several Carcinogenic Personal Habits and Household Exposures. November 2009. Accessed at http://www.iarc.fr/en/media-centre/p...fs/pr196_E.pdf on November 2, 2011.

[Erous]

Self important Non-Smokers Unwilling to move 10 feet away might breath in some smoke.

Yet one of the posters us upset that they would be fined for smoking in a non smoking establishment. You don't have this option in that circumstance. There are ways you can avoid it and other ways you cannot.

[Yousend]

Smoking is a choice, overweight/obesity is not always a choice. You make the effort to go buy those cigarettes every day or week even though you know it's bad for your health. However, you need food to survive and we live in a society that celebrates nearly everything with food and if you refuse, it's perceived as you being a jerk. I'm not saying obese people shouldn't be confronted or talked down if it's because they just love to eat and they're lazy, but you can't do that assumption for every obese people, while you can just do it for people who decide to smoke because they wanted to start smoking.

[Thatwsntmilk]

Self important Non-Smokers Unwilling to move 10 feet away might breath in some smoke.

It's not non-smokers that should move and take care where they go, it's smokers who should. Smokers harm their environment not the other way round.

According to your argument on a larger scale, all non-smokers should move to some island so that smokers can smoke anywhere they want, right?

[Sackman]

Well you see, your smoke gets in the air where other people breathe, while fat people the only consequence is usually their selves,

In fairness, fat people require more energy, thus consume more of the worlds resources, thus inflate the prices of food in the economy and potentially help kids in Africa starve. (Lots of cause and effect).

I'd say thats worse than a bit of passive smoking, in fact, smoking = jobs for tobacco companies = jobs for people in poor countries growing tobacco - this economy boon I would say largely balances out the defecit of health costs of people who get ill from smoking and thus, smoking > fat people.

[Deleted]

as a smoker, I cant believe that some people don't believe that us smokers unintentionally harm others health with second hand smoke.
We are the ones that are causing the issue. we should be the ones to move.

Even in designated area's where people are allowed to smoke, if there are other people around who are not currently smoking, I ask them if they mind if I light up. If they do then I move away from them. Manners cost nothing.

[Thatwsntmilk]

I'd say thats worse than a bit of passive smoking, in fact, smoking = jobs for tobacco companies = jobs for people in poor countries growing tobacco - this economy boon I would say largely balances out the defecit of health costs of people who get ill from smoking and thus, smoking > fat people.

Obese people consuming more and buying tools that help them from disabilities = more taxes

Am I doin' it rite?

[Sackman]

If you're just going to randomly make things up why are you wasting your time pushing the post button???

Would like to see which is worse per m^3 of the gas.

My bet is on exhaust fumes.. and I don't mean just carcinogens.