1. #1

    Weapon choice btw agi staff and dw str axes - simcraft results

    Korkron Spire of Supremacy Staff

    VS

    Dual Wield Malkorok's Skullcleavers

    Both same ilvl.

    Ran simcraft with both weapon selections and DW Malkorok's Skullcleavers comes out on top.

    316k

    282k

    I'm new to my windwalker monk and is that result right? DW is that much better than 2h?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Moderator Babylonius's Avatar
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    DW is better than 2H, this information is found in the first part of the guide on these forums.

    As far as comparing it with a str weapon, I find it impossible that the str weapon will be better than the Agi staff. As you're missing out on half the AP and all the crit.
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  3. #3
    I could see it if the ilvl was different but something seems off

  4. #4
    Mechagnome Shedi's Avatar
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    I'ts very likely that the Strength DW weapons will be better than the Agi staff. Unsure if you should see such a high difference considering that the two weapons are the same item level though...

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  5. #5
    The Lightbringer TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Are both gemmed/enchanted in the sim?
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  6. #6
    Moderator Babylonius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shedi View Post
    I'ts very likely that the Strength DW weapons will be better than the Agi staff. Unsure if you should see such a high difference considering that the two weapons are the same item level though...
    Its not very likely that the Str weapons will be better than the Agi staff. Monks are an Agi class, not a str class. DW v 2H is less than 5% difference, Str is about 25% the use of Agi (half the AP and no crit) so a Agi weapon is about 25% better than a Str weapon with the exact same secondaries. This doesn't balance out.
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  7. #7
    Mechagnome Shedi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylonius View Post
    Its not very likely that the Str weapons will be better than the Agi staff. Monks are an Agi class, not a str class. DW v 2H is less than 5% difference, Str is about 25% the use of Agi (half the AP and no crit) so a Agi weapon is about 25% better than a Str weapon with the exact same secondaries. This doesn't balance out.
    DW v 2H is a 5% total damage increase. Having 1500 additional agility (~2000 on the staff minus 500 Agility worth of Strength) most likely doesn't increase your total damage by 5%, as supported by the simcraft. This is terrible 'math', but the point remains that strength instead of agility on one piece is quite inconsequential.

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  8. #8
    Thanks for the response.

    I can't post the actual simcraft strings as it doesn't allow me yet.

    My monk is Chiqa in US-Hyjal.

    I first imported my current settings to mr robot then exported that to simcraft. I then ran the simualation.

    Next, I switched my spec to dw and picked out the malkorok axes fully upgraded, same ilvl etc; exported to simcraft then ran the simulation.

    That's how I got the results.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Can anyone else confirm this?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by jaego View Post
    Thanks for the response.

    I can't post the actual simcraft strings as it doesn't allow me yet.

    My monk is Chiqa in US-Hyjal.

    I first imported my current settings to mr robot then exported that to simcraft. I then ran the simualation.

    Next, I switched my spec to dw and picked out the malkorok axes fully upgraded, same ilvl etc; exported to simcraft then ran the simulation.

    That's how I got the results.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Can anyone else confirm this?
    I'm assuming you're looking at 4/4 HWF when I refer to stat differences.

    Let's compare stats:
    4/4 HWF Spire
    +2802 Agility
    +4324 Stamina
    +2018 Critical Strike (3.36% @ L90)
    +1669 Mastery (2.78 @ L90)

    4/4 HWF Cleaver X 2
    +2310 Strength
    +3706 Stamina
    +1640 Hit (4.82% @ L90)
    +1444 Critical Strike (2.40% @ L90)

    Difference in stats:
    +2802 Agility vs +2310 Strength - 3294 AP (around a 5% AP loss in BiS gear) and 2.2% crit (at 1260 Agility to 1 % crit)
    2018 Crit vs 1444 Crit - .96% more crit from crit. Add that to the crit gained from the 2H, and you get about 3.2% crit loss
    1669 Master vs 1640 Hit - Here's where things get interesting. If you can make use of all of that hit, or the 1k hit that you have after reforging hit to haste, you make up a bit of the crit and AP loss from using the DW Strength weapons.

    So, you'd be losing about 5% AP and 3.2% crit but you'd gain 650 haste (assuming you're reforging hit to haste) and 1k hit from the cleavers over 650 haste (assuming you're reforging mastery to haste) and 1k mastery from the staff. Assuming you can use that hit, that's a massive difference. At least a couple percent increase in damage from the secondaries on the cleavers.

    According to your Sims, you see about a 10% damage decrease with using the 2H Agi staff over using the DW Str weapons. Considering the more optimal secondary stats on the DW weapons, I figured you'd see closer to a 5-7% difference. I'm surprised it's 10%, but that doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.

    Regardless of these results. You'd be a horrible, horrible person if you tried to get a strength weapon over a strength user because it's a DPS increase over your agility staff.
    Last edited by Jocias; 2014-07-17 at 09:38 PM.

  10. #10
    Thanks for the breakdown. I just wanted to confirm if the simcraft results were not too outrageous or wrong.
    '
    I'm actually using the agi staff since i upgraded it before simming the two axes i got. They were going to be disenchanted so i took them. Wasn't going to take them over str users which didn't want them.

  11. #11
    I'm 100% positive the 1handers are better. Why? This is my experience. Up until last week I always used an agility staff (588) now i swapped into 2x1hander (588, 582). I was blown away by the massive difference in dps this made, and I'm utterly convinced this trumps the not having agility.

    Luckily i logged this week and the previous one, so ppl can compare: http://www.raidbots.com/epeenbot/eu/...eaver/dennixx/
    Some dps rankings are rather close together / far apart due to playing better on a certain day. but in general the dps increase is insane.

    edit: there's actually a gap between the logs of a week. -> the difference also consists of a valor upgrade 0/4 -> 4/4 on neck. but im still convinced about my point
    Last edited by dennix; 2014-07-18 at 05:33 PM.

  12. #12
    I think there's a general consensus that dw is better. Also the WW guide has a section on dw vs 2h. It says to go with 1hers given the same ilvl. I thought you were also using strength 1hers.

    Again, I just wanted to confirm if simcraft was producing believable results by using strength 1hers over agility staff.

    With the str axes, I gain some haste but lose some AP and some crit.

    But according to simcraft, it still is an increase of about 30k dps over the staff.

  13. #13
    yeah it has been said to go DW if one of the 1handers is the same ilevel as your 2H weapon but if you have a 553 2h definatly use over 2 1hand 540

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