1. #1

    Newbie Shadow question

    Hey guys,

    Maybe this is a dumb question, but: when you use Mind Flay, are you supposed to "clip" it after the second tick? I might be wrong, but it kind of seems to me that it behaves exactly like any other dot and that behavior will give me slightly extra dps, at a mana premium.
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  2. #2
    Field Marshal Ambereldus's Avatar
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    Yes, clipping mind flay is better than letting it fully channel. Mana shouldn't be a concern, but you can weave SWD into your rotation (assuming you took Masochism as a talent) to help with mana.

  3. #3
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Before Cata, "Clipping" properly was extremely important for proper dps. You had to literally get a dot-timer to clip after the second tick to get maximum dps out of it. IT was stupid, but necessary (Now we have our ridiculous stupid-but-necessary t13 4pc. Thanks blizz.)

    Now, clipping is much easier, and does indeed make it act like a proper DoT. There is no dps different between clipping the first and second dot, or even halfway through the third. As long as you recast before it runs out, you're good.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    Before Cata, "Clipping" properly was extremely important for proper dps. You had to literally get a dot-timer to clip after the second tick to get maximum dps out of it. IT was stupid, but necessary (Now we have our ridiculous stupid-but-necessary t13 4pc. Thanks blizz.)

    Now, clipping is much easier, and does indeed make it act like a proper DoT. There is no dps different between clipping the first and second dot, or even halfway through the third. As long as you recast before it runs out, you're good.
    Lol........

  5. #5
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Why is this lol?

  6. #6
    Probably because it contains several mistakes.

    Before Cata, you did not want to clip. It was a dps loss not to let your dots tick until the end. Now you want to clip, just after the tick. It can be a dps loss to clip with a dot/nuke if you do it before the tick instead of after it.

    But short answer is yes, you want to clip MF. Gnosis can be useful to monitor your MF ticks.

  7. #7
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinn View Post
    Probably because it contains several mistakes.

    Before Cata, you did not want to clip. It was a dps loss not to let your dots tick until the end. Now you want to clip, just after the tick. It can be a dps loss to clip with a dot/nuke if you do it before the tick instead of after it.
    Erm. Did you... read the post?

    I wasn't talking about clipping dots. I was talking about clipping MF, which you DID have to do before cata.

    Clipping a spell with the same spell now is not a dps loss in any way, outside of mana issues.

    You can sit there and spam SW:P or MF every gcd, and there will be no dps difference at all between that, and waiting for 0.1s before it ends.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    I wasn't talking about clipping dots. I was talking about clipping MF, which you DID have to do before cata.

    Clipping a spell with the same spell now is not a dps loss in any way, outside of mana issues.
    Hmm, it's been awhile and I have tried to purge large parts of wrath from my brain so I could be mistaken, but in wrath didn't you always want to interrupt MF for pretty much any other spell? I feel fairly certain that it wasn't a good idea to clip it for another MF though.

    It was the change in Cata that made the last tick of MF carry over to the next cast that made clipping a MF a good thing. If you are clipping MF with MF you can pretty much clip it with reckless abandon as long as you have the mana to support it. If you are clipping it with a different spell you want to clip it right after a tick.
    Last edited by Arlee; 2012-06-26 at 04:28 PM.

  9. #9
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    Before Cata, "Clipping" properly was extremely important for proper dps. You had to literally get a dot-timer to clip after the second tick to get maximum dps out of it. IT was stupid, but necessary (Now we have our ridiculous stupid-but-necessary t13 4pc. Thanks blizz.)
    I love the 4 piece set rotation addition

    I would think clipping of mind flay should be pretty far down on the list of priority items for a new priest. If you have a good cast bar though, it's easy to see where the actual ticks are falling. My biggest concern with the ticks is that I am continuing to lower the CD on shadowfiend on fights where the timing of that CD is critical for overall damage (Hagara, Madness and Spine). Otherwise, I'm not particularly concerned with clipping or not clipping mind flay. Just maintaining it's uptime between other spells.
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  10. #10
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    but in wrath didn't you always want to interrupt MF for pretty much any other spell? I feel fairly certain that it wasn't a good idea to clip it for another MF though.
    Yes, all other spells had priority over MF for clipping, however MF was clipped at 2 ticks because it did two things. One, it prevented minimum downtime between the tick and cast, and two, it prevented accidentally clipping the third tick, and totally blowing it.

    I would think clipping of mind flay should be pretty far down on the list of priority items for a new priest.
    Clipping MF isn't nearly as critical as, say, keeping dots active. However, the OP asked. So... there it is!

  11. #11
    Clipping MF in WOTLK was a terrible idea. (unless for dots of course) Especially with T10 set bonus. hence why a lot of people used the addon MF Clip, that plays a sound when you clip mind flay. So you are completely wrong. Also, its better to clip it as soon as you can after the 2nd tick the 1st time, and the 3rd tick the 2nd time and every time you flay continuously after that. The reason? So you get more ticks out. Thanks for the infraction though.

  12. #12
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    I wouldn't even say it's critical at all. I'd say it barely matters. Because to be quite honest, I've never paid attention to it. And it doesn't seem to make one bit of a difference.
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  13. #13
    The Lightbringer turskanaattori's Avatar
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    I have played a bit on my shadow priest, and am more concerned about how to handle 4set T13.
    It just seems weird to change from dots to nukes mid-fight.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by lwalker8 View Post
    I wouldn't even say it's critical at all. I'd say it barely matters. Because to be quite honest, I've never paid attention to it. And it doesn't seem to make one bit of a difference.
    How you clip MF currently only matters if you are having mana issues. Aside from that it doesn't matter because the time between the ticks stays the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by turskanaattori View Post
    I have played a bit on my shadow priest, and am more concerned about how to handle 4set T13.
    It just seems weird to change from dots to nukes mid-fight.
    That can definitely be really weird when you first start using it and it is a really good idea to practice the rotations on the dummies so you feel comfortable with it.

  15. #15
    High Overlord marathal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    That can definitely be really weird when you first start using it and it is a really good idea to practice the rotations on the dummies so you feel comfortable with it.
    As someone very knowledgeable explained to me. "If you do it right it is a huge DPS gain, if you do it wrong it's a DPS loss"

    It takes a lot of practice, practice, practice. I was never able to get it, so I work at maintaining all DoT's above 95%, which is enough of a challenge for me.

  16. #16
    it´s not a huge dps gain we are speaking for a difference amount like having a profession in comparison to not having one at max
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