Relationship between fantasy mmorpgs and modern-shooter rpgs?

[Ishida52134]

So given the rise of class-based shooter mmo's such as team fortress, valkyria chronicles, star wars battlefront 3, borderlands 2, battlefield 3, etc.., I've been wondering about how such classes correspond to the classes in class-based fantasy mmorpgs. Given the basic classes, rogues, warriors, healers/clerics, and mages, how do they correspond to the classes in shooter mmorpgs?
For example in valkyria chronicles, I see how healers, rogues, and warriors fit in, but where do mages fit in? In team fortress 2, it's obvious the healer is the medic. The infantry, spies, demoman,.... all fit in within the rogue/warrior classes. But where do the mages fit in? The engineers?
This raises the question of what exactly defines the mage class rather than simply magic? Are there are other things that define such a class? We can label it as squishy and dps class, but at the same time, so are rogues?
So what class in class-based shooter games correspond with mage classes?
What do you guys think?

1) Say that you like the rogue and warrior classes. Since there's the general concept of it, can one relate this to other classes in other class-based shooters?
2) How would this relate, and what would we have to look at to relate the classes?
3) Are the base classes of mmorpgs rogues, warriors, mages, and clerics?
thanks

In short, all I'm trying to figure out is how classes in fantasy rpgs can relate to classes in class-based shooters or in any other genre.

[vizzle]

Mages would be the glass-cannon ranged class. That's all they are, whether you're using bullets or magic. If there is no glass-cannon ranged class then there's no mage.

The three base classes in fantasy itself are thieves, warriors and mages. They act as a rock paper scissors, and it's a lazy way to keep everything balanced. Everything more than that is expansion beyond the norm.

[Adam Jensen]

Sure. Mass Effect has the Soldier and the Infiltrator (and numerous other classes). No reason why the Soldier can't be the "Warrior" of the shooter RPG. Uses armor and relies on weaponry. The Infiltrator uses stealth and sabotage, like the Rogue, to get past his enemies. Perhaps a sniper rifle to take enemies out from a far, or a tactical cloak and a silenced pistol to put a bullet in a guard's back. And to use ME as an example, the Mage would be born of technology and in ME that's the biotic adept. The adept for example uses the power of element zero implanted in his veins to perform "magic." Or perhaps not so arcane as that, an Engineer does an exceptional job of taking the place of the Mage as well. Magic is simply replaced by technology in a scifi. Technology substitutes magic.

So just like a medieval RPG builds off the mage, the rogue and the warrior to generate classes, a sci-fi rpg builds off the soldier, the infiltrator and the engineer/cybernetic. An example would be perhaps the Vanguard, an extension of the soldier built around being a tank perhaps. Close quarters, highly defensive, keeps the enemy occupied so "squishy" targets like engineers and snipers can eliminate the enemy. Hell, isn't this what Team Fortress is built around?

[Larynx]

Mages would be the glass-cannon ranged class. That's all they are, whether you're using bullets or magic. If there is no glass-cannon ranged class then there's no mage.

The three base classes in fantasy itself are thieves, warriors and mages. They act as a rock paper scissors, and it's a lazy way to keep everything balanced. Everything more than that is expansion beyond the norm.

Except in WoW where the mage counters the warrior, the rogue sort of counters the mage, and the warrior gets destroyed by both of them.

[bals]

mages would be snipers imo

[Achaman]

mages would be the iron man type soldier using an advanced suit of armor able to shoot lasers

tabula rasa did decent in making a fantasy (with an ancient race and their language being usable as magic or somethin)
and sci-fi being on another planet as earth was taken over
and the modern shooters with the whole military theme with soldiers and the typical military bases and guns etc


been awile since i played it so dont remember much

[Repefe]

I would say tech<=>magic.

Warrior = class focused on weapons and heavy armor.
Rogue = class focused on weapons, possibly stealth and medium armor.
Wizard = class focused on tech.
Cleric = class focused on tech defense.
Hunter/archer = sniper class.

The rogue/archer may be one class.

[Ishida52134]

Sure. Mass Effect has the Soldier and the Infiltrator (and numerous other classes). No reason why the Soldier can't be the "Warrior" of the shooter RPG. Uses armor and relies on weaponry. The Infiltrator uses stealth and sabotage, like the Rogue, to get past his enemies. Perhaps a sniper rifle to take enemies out from a far, or a tactical cloak and a silenced pistol to put a bullet in a guard's back. And to use ME as an example, the Mage would be born of technology and in ME that's the biotic adept. The adept for example uses the power of element zero implanted in his veins to perform "magic." Or perhaps not so arcane as that, an Engineer does an exceptional job of taking the place of the Mage as well. Magic is simply replaced by technology in a scifi. Technology substitutes magic.

So just like a medieval RPG builds off the mage, the rogue and the warrior to generate classes, a sci-fi rpg builds off the soldier, the infiltrator and the engineer/cybernetic. An example would be perhaps the Vanguard, an extension of the soldier built around being a tank perhaps. Close quarters, highly defensive, keeps the enemy occupied so "squishy" targets like engineers and snipers can eliminate the enemy. Hell, isn't this what Team Fortress is built around?

yeah thanks. I agree with your analysis. Except how would you know if a soldier that's using an advanced technology weapon is a warrior or a mage? Because, like, for example, now, advanced technology to us would be like lasers. But in the future, their idea of advanced technology would be something different. So then, if mages are just something that uses advanced technology then it wouldn't be constant throughout time?

Except, wouldn't a guy that simply uses something be a warrior, while someone that creates his own technology be more of a mage? Because, while rogues aren't capable of creating new inventions and technology, they are capable of utilizing a variety of gadgets.

and also, how would you relate fantasy mmorpg classes with the classes in valkyria chronicles?

Imo, the hardest class to compare is the mage.

[Adam Jensen]

yeah thanks. I agree with your analysis. Except how would you know if a soldier that's using an advanced technology weapon is a warrior or a mage? Because, like, for example, now, advanced technology to us would be like lasers. But in the future, their idea of advanced technology would be something different. So then, if mages are just something that uses advanced technology then it wouldn't be constant throughout time?

Except, wouldn't a guy that simply uses something be a warrior, while someone that creates his own technology be more of a mage? Because, while rogues aren't capable of creating new inventions and technology, they are capable of utilizing a variety of gadgets.

and also, how would you relate fantasy mmorpg classes with the classes in valkyria chronicles?

Imo, the hardest class to compare is the mage.

Well it is open to interpretation, but I'd see the soldier as someone who relies primarily on his gun. But of course, there'll be a thin red line. Just like an RPG can have a battlemage that combines the warrior with the mage. A soldier relying on tech would edge towards that line between the "warrior" and the "mage."

[Ishida52134]

Well it is open to interpretation, but I'd see the soldier as someone who relies primarily on his gun. But of course, there'll be a thin red line. Just like an RPG can have a battlemage that combines the warrior with the mage. A soldier relying on tech would edge towards that line between the "warrior" and the "mage."

oh I see. that makes sense, thanks.
but, like wouldn't warriors use different weapons as well? Like how warriors use axes, spears, lances, swords, shields in fantasy rpgs, couldn't they also use different weapons like rocket launchers, assault rifles, shotguns, grenades??
Btw, as for ratchet and clank, wouldn't ratchet be considered a rogue or a mage? Assuming he doesn't create his own weapon. Usually rogues are open to a huge variety of gadgets and weapons, so would technology really be a determining factor of a mage?

What do you think about the lancer class in valkyria chronicles?

[Adam Jensen]

oh I see. that makes sense, thanks.
but, like wouldn't warriors use different weapons as well? Like how warriors use axes, spears, lances, swords, shields in fantasy rpgs, couldn't they also use different weapons like rocket launchers, assault rifles, shotguns, grenades??
Btw, as for ratchet and clank, wouldn't ratchet be considered a rogue or a mage? Assuming he doesn't create his own weapon. Usually rogues are open to a huge variety of gadgets and weapons, so would technology really be a determining factor of a mage?

What do you think about the lancer class in valkyria chronicles?

Exactly. Soldiers, like warriors can use any weapon they come across. They just aren't so grand on the tech/cybernetic department. If a soldier is going close contact, he can grab his shotgun. Long range? Sniper rifle. Etc, etc. So he can use an Infiltrator's weapon perhaps, but not the Infiltrator's other skills.

[Ishida52134]

oh thanks I get it. so what do you think about the ranged nuke AoE aspect? it seems to me that rogues can play that kind of role too.

and also, would iron man be more of a warrior, rogue, or a mage. Because, while he is all tech/cybernetic stuff, he is agile and he does have armor which would fulfill warrior and rogue aspects. Plus, he can actually fight in combat while mages can't.

I just want to know what attributes actually definte the mage. What characteristics can we use to connect them with classes of games from other genres?
For example, let's take team fortress 2.
I would say that rogues are the spy, scout, sniper, and demoman, assuming rangers are part of rogues.
Warriors would be soldier and heavy.
Cleric would be the medic, no argument there lol.

now, mages, I'm a bit confused about. We can state that they are engineers, or pyro as ranged aoe. However, are the attributes or the lore more important? Is the fact that mages use magic important and in modern terminology, they should be engineers or scientists?
btw, I was looking up this thing, and I found this blog on this site: http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/elessars...sses-of-MMORPG