What I wish GW2 actually did.

[AdrianCC100]

In before people say "Oh this game isn't for you" because I speak my opinion on something.

As it is now, no class can become a pure tank or healer. If you attempt to tank, even with defensive abilities, you still get face stomped by the NPCs. As far as I know, the Water Elemental is the only one that comes close to being a pure healer. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of not needed those two roles to do dungeons and other stuff. I just wish that ArenaNet would have at least given us the choice to do those roles if we wanted to. For example, Warriors and Guardians should have been given the option to be a pure tank that can sit there and take the damage for his or her group. As for a pure healer, Elementalist and maybe the Mesmer should have also been given the option to play pure healer.

I still love the game and can't wait to play it. That is just my opinion on what I think they should have done with the class system.

[Deathtalk]

So u want it to be like every other mmo lol this game isnt for u its a unique game and it doesnt have roles for specific reasons......

[AdrianCC100]

So u want it to be like every other mmo lol this game isnt for u its a unique game and it doesnt have roles for specific reasons......

Like I said, in before the trolls that tell me the game isn't for me.

[Snuckerpooks]

The idea was more or less to make each class equal in as many ways as possible. Each class meets the same purpose in its own individual way. Some have more weight towards healing (Water Ele) or taking a physical beating (Guadians / Warriors), but every class is viable and each player is held accountable.

Tanks and healers usually have the most important role as the DPS is pretty straightforward and easier. So having a system where tanks and healers are possible puts more accountability into those specific players that have the harder role. Shouldn't everyone have an equal role in the battle?

[charlieprince]

Like I said, in before the trolls that tell me the game isn't for me.

it's not trolls

it's the truth

Guild Wars 2 IS NOT FOR YOU

sorry to be so blunt, but it's the truth

it's like ordering an ice cream shake and wondering why there's no ketchup and pickles thinking it's a hamburger

you ordered an ice cream shake but you wanted a hamburger

....it's not for you, sad but true

[grandpab]

Eh, I like the way they did it more. You can still tank and heal to an extent, like guardians have abilities to block attacks that lets them take a few extra hits most people couldn't.

It just doesn't seem like it would be GW2 if there were true tanks and healers, and if there were people would make them a requirement for dungeons whether they were really needed or not.

I think PvP would be horrible if there were pure healers too. Some fights already last a pretty good length of time, add in a bunch of pure healers running around and fights would be never ending.

[AdrianCC100]

it's not trolls

it's the truth

Guild Wars 2 IS NOT FOR YOU

sorry to be so blunt, but it's the truth

it's like ordering an ice cream shake and wondering why there's no ketchup and pickles thinking it's a hamburger

you ordered an ice cream shake but you wanted a hamburger

....it's not for you, sad but true

Wait a second. I said I love the game and can't wait for it to come out, yet you trolls continue to tell me the game isn't for me? All I'm saying is that I wish they at least gave us the option do play a pure tank or healer. Some people actually like to play those kind of roles.

[Borfl]

Threat juggling was quite fun I have to admit, but I think it's interesting to play with control and support rather than playing with stacked gear taking hits and building threat and relying on a healer who just mashes heal over and over again, after a while it gets really old. It's what makes GW2 different from the rest of the MMOs. Water Ele can provide quite a bit of healing and guardians and warriors still have option to play very tanky with traits and weapons. What happens when you have pure healers is people depend more on the healer to save them rather than their own skills and utility, which is another thing that I really like about GW2 is it's up to the player to survive and avoid the hits and not RNG or healers keeping them alive. Also with pure healers groups with require you to specifically find healers to make a dungeon easier, which is not GW2's intent as they want you to pick up anyone and get into a dungeon.

[Deleted]

Nah, it just causes the "LF healer / tank" problem.
I'd rather gather a group of 5 trusty friends who play whatever they want and have some fun.

[Snuckerpooks]

I think PvP would be horrible if there were pure healers too. Some fights already last a pretty good length of time, add in a bunch of pure healers running around and fights would be never ending.

DING DING DING, we have a winner! I can't imagine healers in PvP, that would just be torture.

[Malthurius]

You can't give the option to "tank/heal" because then it would go against the way combat is meant to work and it would most likely become a "dominant strategy" within the game, effectively making the design decisions to not have tanks or healers pointless.

[DrakeWurrum]

In before people say "Oh this game isn't for you" because I speak my opinion on something.

As it is now, no class can become a pure tank or healer. If you attempt to tank, even with defensive abilities, you still get face stomped by the NPCs. As far as I know, the Water Elemental is the only one that comes close to being a pure healer. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of not needed those two roles to do dungeons and other stuff. I just wish that ArenaNet would have at least given us the choice to do those roles if we wanted to. For example, Warriors and Guardians should have been given the option to be a pure tank that can sit there and take the damage for his or her group. As for a pure healer, Elementalist and maybe the Mesmer should have also been given the option to play pure healer.

I still love the game and can't wait to play it. That is just my opinion on what I think they should have done with the class system.

What you're missing is that you can still build for similar roles. You want to be the guy that charges in first, takes damage so his team doesn't have to, and does his best to control the enemy so his team doesn't die. You can do that. You're just not ONLY good at "tanking," and it's absolutely impossible to FORCE enemies to attack you instead of your team.

Or you want to be the guy that wants to support his team. You want to be healing damage, preventing damage, boosting allies' damage, weakening enemy damage, helping allies run faster, etc etc. If you've ever played LoL, you've seen the kind of support I mean. You're just not ONLY good at healing/support, and it's absolutely impossible for you to just sit in the back spamming heals on your UI elements, therefore completely ignoring the actual combat.


You really should read this: http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-gam...healing-death/

Don't belittle the SUPPORT role by calling it heal. Healing is the least dynamic kind of support there is. It is reactive instead of proactive. Healing is for when you are already losing. In Guild Wars 2 we prefer that you support your allies before they take a beating. Sure, there are some healing spells in Guild Wars 2, but they make up a small portion of the support lines that are spread throughout the professions. Other kinds of support include buffs, active defense, and cross-profession combinations.

This is where Guild Wars 2 makes the biggest break from the traditional MMO setup. Tanking is the most rudimentary form of the most important combat fundamental, CONTROL. Every game has it, yet it always seems to get a bad name. In Guild Wars there was Knockdown, Interrupt, Weakness, Blind, and Cripple, to name a few. We wanted to build upon what we think makes control such an important part of dynamic combat.

Control is the only thing versatile enough to get away from the rock-paper-scissors gameplay of other MMOs. It's healing when you need it, its damage when you need it. It is the glue that holds together our system. From controlling movement to controlling damage, there are tons of exciting dynamic scenarios that control can set up. You can use a stun to save an ally or to finish off a fleeing enemy. Immobilize that warrior to get away from them, or use it on an elementalist to close in on them. In order to use it well, we had to understand the drawbacks of control too. How often can you do it? How excessive is the duration? How does it affect the difficulty of challenges you face?

Seriously, look at this game from the perspective of an MOBA, and you'll perhaps grasp what I'm getting at.

[Delias]

Removing the need for healers and tanks from the game was an intentional design decision for multiple reasons. Makes putting groups together easier and gives everyone's role more weight. It also means that everyone is forced to do everything (Everyone helps damage, everyone helps heal, everyone dodges damage) instead of one person healing, one tanking, and 3 DPSing. Your opinion of what they should do with the class system makes the class system the same trinity as 90% of MMOs out there. I'm not saying that the trinity is terrible, but trying something new isn't a bad thing. It's the way GW2 has been designed, if you end up disliking it at least 90% of MMOs still have the trinity for you.

---------- Post added 2012-06-29 at 09:57 PM ----------

Wait a second. I said I love the game and can't wait for it to come out, yet you trolls continue to tell me the game isn't for me? All I'm saying is that I wish they at least gave us the option do play a pure tank or healer. Some people actually like to play those kind of roles.

If the option was there, everyone would use it. Do you honestly think that they could balance the game in such a way that 5x DPS was JUST as viable as 1 healer, 1 tank, 3 DPS?

[Window]

Considering its one of the only games were people are forced into those roles if they want to do dungeons or spending hours trying to find them
I personally like the idea of dissolving the trinity

[Fencers]

@OP

It depends on what you mean by "tank" and "healer". As defined in the very, very narrow EQ model, while a nice thought those 2 roles only exist due to the nature of combat in descendant games. EQ or TOR can't really function without them, so to speak.

However. If you conceptualize "tanking" as a function of control, then that is 100% possible within Guild Wars 2 w/o breaking the core systems of.. well, everything. Anet even put up a blog post to this effect. In actual practice it is as true of GW2 as GW1.

To a greater degree this is true of support as well. With support almost a necessity for any serious PVE [trinity is usually pointless in PVP]. Might even have to bring several kinds of support to an explorable mode fight. And no, it's not simply a matter of tossing out heals [although that IS needed] but of applying boons and de-cursing.

Those archetypal roles are there just diluted so as to not break the casual & PVP dominant DD/T.

[AdrianCC100]

Removing the need for healers and tanks from the game was an intentional design decision for multiple reasons. Makes putting groups together easier and gives everyone's role more weight. It also means that everyone is forced to do everything (Everyone helps damage, everyone helps heal, everyone dodges damage) instead of one person healing, one tanking, and 3 DPSing. Your opinion of what they should do with the class system makes the class system the same trinity as 90% of MMOs out there. I'm not saying that the trinity is terrible, but trying something new isn't a bad thing. It's the way GW2 has been designed, if you end up disliking it at least 90% of MMOs still have the trinity for you.

---------- Post added 2012-06-29 at 09:57 PM ----------



If the option was there, everyone would use it. Do you honestly think that they could balance the game in such a way that 5x DPS was JUST as viable as 1 healer, 1 tank, 3 DPS?

I'm sure ArenaNet could have come up with a creative way to make it work.

[Fencers]

I'm sure ArenaNet could have come up with a creative way to make it work.

They really can't. The combat system, AI, itemization, stat values, skills and game modes can never support the concept of a trinity in a classical sense.

[sarasun]

If the option was there, everyone would use it. Do you honestly think that they could balance the game in such a way that 5x DPS was JUST as viable as 1 healer, 1 tank, 3 DPS?

/thread right there. If the game was balanced around having tank/healer, then 5 DPS would be too hard. If it was balanced around having 5 DPS, using a tank/healer would make it faceroll.

[Delias]

They also did not want people to have to pick a profession based off of role (Oh. I like how the warrior plays, but I want to be a healer. Guess I'll play the elementalist.)
Here, this blog explains some of the reasons they decided against a holy trinity.
http://www.arena.net/blog/jon-peters-talks-combat

[DrakeWurrum]

Some of these people are being a bit more aggressive than they need to be, but hopefully I provided some useful info (and Fencers and Delias as well, among others). Arena Net isn't ignoring that players like playing tanks and healers. In order to still provide that kind of fun, rather than just giving up and giving us tanks and healers, they took the time to analyze what you enjoy about tanking and healing. From what I've experienced, they've succeeded in capturing that spark, and so if you want to be a "tank" or you want to be a "healer" you can still easily find a playstyle that gives you that same spark that you desire, that you've found in tanks/healers in other MMORPGs. It's just not a dedicated, rigid role that forces groups to require you.