End Game Content.

[philefluxx]

Calm down a bit man and think for a sec about what you're ranting about. You and I could have vastly different views about what should be in the game. It's not to say you or I am right and the other is wrong we just see things differently. Last I knew (been a while since I've played WoW) but as long as I could heal I had the option to queue as a healer. That's the same thing happening here. I can tell you this before group finder I could heal flashpoints as a DPS spec as long as players don't do extremely stupid things so I wouldn't run out of Force/Energy/Hear/Ammo. I am confident that I could do it because I have so I wouldn't bother respecing while I'm questing and queue up as a healer for a flashpoint.

Argument is only valid when they launch dual spec. Remember the talent trees are clearly marked as Damage, Healing, Defense so its not like there is a grey area there between what your talent choices mean, their design not mine.

Before group finder, if you wanted to do the flashpoint again you had to do the convo after you exit the flashpoint for most of them before being allowed to take the quest again. Now if you don't recall there was an issue with getting in queue if you had the quest already. Now what would you have to do if you got droped back on Alderaan and still have the quest? You can't queue again and have to go back to fleet to turn in.

How is this relevant? Its their game design, they should know how to work around it. Look at the way Esseles and BT work if you choose to move to the next planet instead of staying on Fleet. Again BW depending on players to tell them how to do things.

You sitting in fleet all day is by player choice. Even when the LFG tool drops me back on fleet that doesn't force me to stay there.

True, but with the amount of loading screens and inconsistency of queue times it becomes extremely frustrating to reach my destination and have the queue pop. But yes I admit its my choice so Ill give you this one, but its not like the alternative is that great either.

A lot of game devs pass the buck over to someone else, the 3rd party addon creators. And since they are not allowing those (thank goodness) the responsibility falls on them and they delivered. Other MMOs give you a stock interface and you can't do much if anything with it. I don't get your gripe here.

To put it simply "If you want the position of God then accept the responsibility". I don't know how else to explain it. Its not like everyone woke up on Dec 20th and said "fuck it I dont care about damage meters, UI customizations, threat meters". BW knew, or they should have known, this are tools that are extremely important to the MMO community.

Nothing stopped you before from using your custom gear in end game. Earlier on you had to choose between fashion and min/maxing. The only thing you lost by using custom gear was the set bonuses.

Uhh correction, you could not tank in mod gear because the armor mods were not high enough for hardmodes and above. Maybe if you were hanging in story mode the entire time you were ok, but the rest of us doing HM and NM could not.

Yes I believe they play their game and it could just be that their idea of Style, Function or Utility differs from you. I was helping some classmates on our class project and it surprised me how people designed their interfaces with little to no style or user friendliness. You can't get mad at them because in their eyes it was. If no one tells them how would they know. I have no problem giving them my 2 credits because at the end of the day it improves my gaming experience. EVERYTHING is a learning and growing experience.

While I completely agree with you, I disagree with taking someones money month and month and acting surprised when your players are expecting tools that are a standard in today games. Hell Rift figured out they needed a LFG 3 months after launch, SWTOR wasn't paying attention? Its been said multiple times, BW created a game built very similar to other games of this genre but forgot to include basic fundamentals. Now they are trying to play catch up and its costing them time, money, and innovation because they are under the gun.

EDIT: fixing spelling

[Xcitement]

Argument is only valid when they launch duel spec. Remember the talent trees are clearly marked as Damage, Healing, Defense so its not like there is a grey area there between what your talent choices mean, their design not mine.

While I completely agree with you, I disagree with taking someones money month and month and acting surprised when your players are expecting tools that are a standard in today games. Hell Rift figured out they needed a LFG 3 months after launch, SWTOR wasn't paying attention? Its been said multiple times, BW created a game built very similar to other games of this genre but forgot to include basic fundamentals. Now they are trying to play catch up and its costing them time, money, and innovation because they are under the gun.

I wasn't talking about dual spec there. I mentioned healing as a DPS spec.

They made their vision, you don't like it and want it more like your vision. If you don't tell them they wouldn't know. THAT was my point. Some things they will be willing to change others they wouldn't. However that does not change the fact that this is their vision. Their designers thought this was cool and to some it is to others it is not. You're working yourself into a frenzy unnecessarily.

Now this thread is about the End Game content and anything you'd like added. The best way to do that is to lay it out as you'd like. You know YOUR vision and if they chose to implement it and screw up your vision when you laid it out completely then you can break your foot off in their...

[Miah]

This is the exact type of person they listened to get into this mess in the first place. If they don't implement dual spec in the next 2 months, we will probably see you posting in a thread with a pitchfork proclaiming Bioware to be the devil because they didn't have dual spec in from day one.

It's just silly.

They need to go ahead and realize the masses/majority of people who will pay to play MMOs today have come to expect certain features. Let's go ahead and be honest here. These features aren't expected the same way because of WoW. When you have an entirely different game that doesn't strive so hard to fit into the genre, it is a different issue.

Considering SWTOR tries to fit into that niche completely, it is absurd to withhold anything else from that. They didn't try to reinvent the wheel, so there is no need to try and limit its current standard.

And you're the exact type of person that ruined WoW and caused millions of us to get ridiculously bored with its " Everything handed to you on a silver platter" mentality. Expect certain features? When is WoW going to come up to SWToRs standards and have decent PvP/Companions/decent graphics/great leveling experience etc. etc........you know todays standards type stuff.

Expect certain features.......naw most of us don't need Curse to play our game for us, have bioware hand us level 45s with quad spec and fully geared with greens every 9 months when they finally get around to adding some new content ( new content used VERY loosely considering what game people are getting their standards from)

I have full Warhero Sage/Shadow and a 50 smuggler/Marauder and working on Vangard, why is it I would ever need dual spec?

---------- Post added 2012-07-11 at 02:31 AM ----------

LOL, Smuggler/Operatives are OP in PvP? In rated play the only time Scoundrels or Operatives are taken is if they heal, any serious team would never take a Concealment OP or the Scoundrel equivalent as they bring ZERO utility to the group. Sure in 1vs1 they are still great but in a team environment they are pretty bad. However I do agree with you on Sents/Marauders, though you can also put Vanguard/PT Pyros in that group as well. They are brought due to there insane amount of single target burst. The only thing IMO that needs to be fixed for Sents/Marauders is the retardedly OP 99% Damage Reduction which lasts 5 seconds.

Smugglers as in Gunslinger/Agent snipers or scoundrel/operative healers both some of the most buffed up OP things around

[Kelimbror]

And you're the exact type of person that ruined WoW and caused millions of us to get ridiculously bored with its " Everything handed to you on a silver platter" mentality. Expect certain features? When is WoW going to come up to SWToRs standards and have decent PvP/Companions/decent graphics/great leveling experience etc. etc........you know todays standards type stuff.

Expect certain features.......naw most of us don't need Curse to play our game for us, have bioware hand us level 45s with quad spec and fully geared with greens every 9 months when they finally get around to adding some new content ( new content used VERY loosely considering what game people are getting their standards from)

Hmm...assumptions much? What part of me saying that the general population are requiring these things in order to pay to play this game translates to I want to have free purples? I can't tell if you are trying to straight up bridge lurk or if you are just missing it. You need to realize that video games don't revolve around you. Just because you like or want something doesn't mean that the other 99.9% of the population want the same thing.

You don't need to be offended because you aren't a special snowflake in charge of this game. At least I have the ability to step outside of my own little box to see the big picture.

In regards to me ruining WoW? If you go back to burning crusade on my armory, you will see that I have the Hand of A'dal title...which given the way the game was back then, means I actually played the game and earned my progress. Bear tank first expansion it was possible? Check. Add tanked on Illidan in a competitive guild? Check.

If these things don't tell you I played when the game wasn't a cracker jack box filled with prizes, then you don't have any weight to any of your comments. I have stopped playing WoW since it became what it is now. You need to eat your wheaties.

[Forsedar]

I don't see how the past 2 pages relate to End Game Content.

[BloodchargedWoW]

In regards to me ruining WoW? If you go back to burning crusade on my armory, you will see that I have the Hand of A'dal title...which given the way the game was back then, means I actually played the game and earned my progress. Bear tank first expansion it was possible? Check. Add tanked on Illidan in a competitive guild? Check.

If these things don't tell you I played when the game wasn't a cracker jack box filled with prizes, then you don't have any weight to any of your comments. I have stopped playing WoW since it became what it is now. You need to eat your wheaties.

I really hope you aren't trying to incline that any of those were hard. Who cares what server you played on, you act like Illidan is any better then any of the other high-population servers in WoW.

[Kelimbror]

I really hope you aren't trying to incline that any of those were hard. Who cares what server you played on, you act like Illidan is any better then any of the other high-population servers in WoW.

First of all, I mean Illidan the boss...I don't know how I would add tank a server...that's just insane.

Second, the percentage of people that accomplished that content before nerfs or the next expansions is incredibly low compared to the amount of people who killed LK and especially Cata. So refer to me saying that if you don't understand what those accomplishments meant at the time then you have no weight to your voice.My point is still entirely valid that the original poster and you I might add, are way off base in your thinking.

To prevent this thread from being locked due to even more OT, I'm not going to respond to ignorance about another game.


I will however say that I have enjoyed the Ops content in this game so far. It might be 'easier' than other games in their fresh time, but the lack of addons and all kinds of crap actually made it fun. I was able to get tanked, but still not do anything stupid while seeing the entire screen in front of me.

I think giving higher tuned difficulties for Nightmare would be great for those needing it, but I personally enjoyed the freedom this style has presented.

[Koalachan]

If these things don't tell you I played when the game wasn't a cracker jack box filled with prizes

I find the irony in this statement, in that the cracker jack box just isn't filled with awsome prizes anymore. At best you get the cruddy paper thing with a joke. We of course all understand the statement (unless someone is too young to remember), but it saddens me that WoW become cracker jack, and Cracker Jack became WoW (A lot of effort for nothing).

[Arlee]

So back to the topic of End Game Content please. Feel free to talk about features as they relate to End Game Content, but not off-topic talk that has nothing to do with End Game Content. Also, because I know some of you are thinking about it, making just one more post on the off topic conversation to get in the last word and everyone understands your point of view is not ok. Just let the off topic convo end here.

[Puffy]

If we look at facts, SWTOR has more end game content than many other MMO's who started.

The problem however is the difficulty of this content.

The raids were too easy and full of bugs. If eternity vault was released without bugs it would have been cleared much faster.

Then patch 1.2 comes, a new raid, with far fewer bugs. And what happens, my guild, not even that hardcore cleared it in 1 evening, our first try of the raid.

That is NOT ok imo and is the source of the lack of content, its far too easy.

Hardmode and nightmaremode can be deleted. They have no new mechanics, they hardly give any better loot. If Bioware thinks a title for your character is enough incentive, well look at your subs then....

They need to change their design decisions imo. Its completely going the lord of the rings style: casual, hardly any lasting end game content.

[Miah]

If we look at facts, SWTOR has more end game content than many other MMO's who started.

The problem however is the difficulty of this content.

The raids were too easy and full of bugs. If eternity vault was released without bugs it would have been cleared much faster.

Then patch 1.2 comes, a new raid, with far fewer bugs. And what happens, my guild, not even that hardcore cleared it in 1 evening, our first try of the raid.

That is NOT ok imo and is the source of the lack of content, its far too easy.

Hardmode and nightmaremode can be deleted. They have no new mechanics, they hardly give any better loot. If Bioware thinks a title for your character is enough incentive, well look at your subs then....

They need to change their design decisions imo. Its completely going the lord of the rings style: casual, hardly any lasting end game content.

I don't know, someone running around here telling us he knew what 99% of the MMO players expected and wanted was tossing around titles they earned like we were supposed to be impressed by titles so maybe Bioware listened to these types of people in making that call. Personally, anything related to the killing/talking to/grinding out NPC's in any way does nothing to excite me. Take eight Battlemaster geared folks and beat a 2400 ranked group and you have done something "End Game"