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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Worgenite View Post
    Oh, I know about getting the cash store currency and that it's supporting an indie developer, but I still don't like the idea of buying into a beta(which one can argue they are/aren't b/c you're getting the cash shop currency and the beta key is "extra"). For an indie dev, it sounds like a good idea, but what'll happen if it gains momentum and everyone starts doing it, like AAA devs that certainly don't even need the money(or rather their publishers. Imagine activision doing a beta for CoD /shudder. There's already too many negative things going on with the game industry.). I believe in either open betas or betas you can be randomly chosen for(though these tend to be annoying, like PoE, b/c you might never get chosen). I'll ask my gf to check about if she has a key or not and if she doesn't, I'll probably pm you Fencers, not 100% sure though as my character will get wiped after beta ends, right?
    well i know for path of exile they were set against selling beta keys, they did their first stress test and got inundated with requests to buy keys which the declined to do they did a second stress test and eventually relented.
    As for other games trying it...there's always someone to willing to part with their cash but in the end they'll get the picture that it is not the right way to promote or test their game...the general feeling is that ones that want you to buy the key to get in are borderline fail anyway...then there was archblade? that put themselves on startup after the beta testing was done to try grab 100k for essentially nothing...the game is still launching as scheduled...that in it's self lost a lot of would be players

  2. #202
    Pit Lord HBpapa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worgenite View Post
    Oh, I know about getting the cash store currency and that it's supporting an indie developer, but I still don't like the idea of buying into a beta(which one can argue they are/aren't b/c you're getting the cash shop currency and the beta key is "extra"). For an indie dev, it sounds like a good idea, but what'll happen if it gains momentum and everyone starts doing it, like AAA devs that certainly don't even need the money(or rather their publishers. Imagine activision doing a beta for CoD /shudder. There's already too many negative things going on with the game industry.). I believe in either open betas or betas you can be randomly chosen for(though these tend to be annoying, like PoE, b/c you might never get chosen). I'll ask my gf to check about if she has a key or not and if she doesn't, I'll probably pm you Fencers, not 100% sure though as my character will get wiped after beta ends, right?
    Then don't buy the beta keys from the AAA publishers or the companies you don't want to support when/if that happens?

    You can still support kickstarters, buy beta keys to help with the development costs of indie games and buy indie games without ever handing a dime over to AAA companies.
    Atheist, anti-theist, pro-gun, pro-Constitution, anti-racism, pro-gay rights, anti-war, anti-corporatism.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Worgenite View Post
    For an indie dev, it sounds like a good idea, but what'll happen if it gains momentum and everyone starts doing it, like AAA devs that certainly don't even need the money(or rather their publishers. Imagine activision doing a beta for CoD /shudder. There's already too many negative things going on with the game industry.)?
    Well, I respect that you are drawing a personal line in the sand. But like a number of high profile games have had functionally pay-2-beta. Tera, Mists of Pandaria, Guild Wars 2, Smite, DOTA2, Tribes, The Old Republic, Firefall, etc.

    It seems that is already a standard/trend in the industry. To one degree or another.

    I do believe POE are selling supporter packs in a very agreeable and fair manner.



    ---------- Post added 2012-12-17 at 02:10 AM ----------

    Fairly lengthy [& super casual mode] Q&A session with Chris Wilson via Kripp.



    Above is a snippet. Full interview is here: link.

    Be warned, above link is a long play session.

    However, there is a text summary: link.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrpetrov
    I listened to the c.3 hour interview between Kripp and Chris this morning (15 Dec 2012). Below are some of my observations and editorial. Apologies for the style, as I didn't set out at the start to do a court scribe-like rendition of the interview. Nonetheless, I thought there was some interesting content in there, and I hope others find this interesting. The points are largely, but not perfectly, in chronological order. Thanks very much to Charan for formatting the post for me (and you)!

    Onto the substance:

    - Kripp has a remarkable ability to continue a conversation while playing. there are not many men that I know that can multitask like this.

    - Lightning Arrow to be modified as a more traditional AoE attack and lower mana scaling requirements

    - Guilds/clans: yes! aim to keep it simple until market demand requires more complex options/implementation

    - bandit rewards: different for each difficulty (life/endurance charge max, etc). will probably be able to respec out of these choices for a large number of orbs/wealth hit

    - passive resets post OB will continue on occasion due to material tree changes, rather than character wipes (thank god!)

    - legacy league after wipe? sort of. it won't be called legacy, it will be default. the shorter term leagues (eg 2-3 month) will be the new "frontier" and default will be where old leagues migrate to

    - what is ultimate end game: maps or act 3? they overlap a bit. maps will become (generally) available before you finish act 3 merciless. also, act 3 merciless will have areas which are harder than some maps. but on the very high end, maps are intended to be better

    - Chaos Inoculation unlikely to change before OB. Just not a top priority at the moment.

    - necros - not being nerfed, sucked in. L2P

    - mobs killing from off screen and super widescreen (eg out-ranging hailrake): needs to be looked into, especially if its exploitative

    - orb rewards from races: feel pretty good about where it is now. may group races together into "seasons" for points and a metaladder (good idea!). there will be a new demigod-like item for events post OB

    - 4 map slot in the Arcane Laboratory: nothing that uses it yet, but there might be one day and we might not mention it

    - phase run: quicksilver flasks to replace it as a movement skill. can get quicksilver quite early. phase run might be on ice around release on OB, but it will come back when its redesigned

    - uniques: new items post OB? about 1.3 from diamonds so far, each major patch generally released 3-6 new ones. on the coming month/years, several hundred more will be released

    - chance orb system: is the probability to use a chance orb and get a unique is... the same as in general gameplay. doesnt sound like chris wants chance orbs to be the optimal method for unique creation. importantly, about half of current uniques have been improved for OB (!) and some have been nerfed for OB - however chris doesnt generally want uniques to be the best version of a given base item (the karui maul was the exception)...

    - alt f4 on hardcore: its fine, no problem doing that. cuthroat forces you to hang around for 5 secs post alt-f4

    - nz/aus server: too expensive, prices are c. 200x more than us/europe

    - maps: the quantity loot modifier, does it apply per mob? yes, it appliyes per mob, so quantity modifier scales (multiplicatively) with mob size modifier

    - bots: in a free to play game? we have tools that will help but we can't go into specifics. three key ways to tackle it...but not telling you what they are (fair enough!)

    - creative sound card bsod: theres a solution on forum, but they're working on a more automatic solution

    - time from disconnect to in-game departure: 6 seconds, provided you've been in the instance for at least 40 seconds (but this will be variable in future depending on your preference)

    - distinguishing mob vs character: to be discussed amongst team

    - pausing: can be added, they're going to think about it and see how d3 has added it (PLEASE NO!)

    - unique map bosses: matter of time and money - so eventually yes, but when they have the time and resources to do it

    - melee vs ranged balance: its been worse in the past in both directions. no major changes envisaged. there are lots of balance changes people will be forced to adjust to in act 3, so don't want to shoot too soon on this balance until act 3 is out

    - fun: we've fixed pack sized of monsters to be a lot more variable, so pacing of game has really improved - sometimes you get scary hordes (AWESOME - ZOMBIE HORDE!)!

    - pants: no pants because no horses and people only wear pants to protect their bits from horses.perhaps future cosmetics have pants. chris is a nudist, not a pan simulator creator.

    - sweep: is sweep going to use weapon speed (like GS now)? at the moment, sweep will be a constant attack speed, so we have an interesting alternative to GS.

    - item size vs bag size: seems ok for now, want to keep people choosing between hoarding and selling

    - aoe for shadow classes (claw/dagger): chris wants more aoe support and skill gems that make single target skills into aoe (eg a melee aoe support gem for splash damage). hopefully in next 6 months (eg claw aoe)

    - visible damage numbers: it cloggs up the game, and you can see it from HP bar, dont want it

    - skill gems: tons coming in the next year

    - set items: not really a focus, prefer the way it currently is

    - physics engine: quite unlikely without a ton of money. more important things to deal with

    - CTF arenas: like the idea of alternate arenas, so that type of alternate arena will come up in due course

    - PvP today: as expected, its a bit 2 tier between experts and noobies. it does allow them to create a whole new area of gameplay and testing in future - remain excited about it. chris is ok with pve characters sucking at pvp. chris not trying to alter core content and balancing to suit pvp.

    - desync: remains a priority, can definitely do things better, particularly with respect to fast moving skills that dont work well with the combat predictive mechanics that PoE uses

    - OB date: chris thinks we'll be ok. the major concern is service scaling, and day one population - want to make sure they can deal with crazy virality if it happens (HIGH CLASS PROBLEM!)

    - exploits/banning: Kripp feels righteous indignation for his banning in Guild Wars 2. Chris (probably) wouldn't ban people for similar circumstances, like an incorrectly priced vendor item. If you use bots, you'll probably be banned. If you exploit "by hand" you probably won't be banned.

    - paysafe cards: see the latest announcement on this

    - colour stash tabs: is it individual to each stash tab? yes, you basically pay per tab. pricing won't be much more expensive from original tab cost or a small upgrade fee if you want to colour the tabs later

    - week 16 botw: coming soon, time is a problem right now! could solicit guest videos.

    - HC deaths: GGG WILL NOT AND CANNOT RESTORE HC CHARACTERS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE. even if its because Chris comes into HC and kills you himself, or you're scammed or whatever.

    - Is the middle class of the tree the deathknight? yes, she is the deathknight. Errr.

    - leagues: GGG looking for more ideas for leagues. a shadow league? GGG want to fix some shadow stuff first... (GS league?) random content area league (eg start with vaal pyramid!)?

    - gem quality bonuses: Carl has gone through them and its changed, but its always being reviewed. chris refers specifically to the spork build...(PETROV EDITORIAL: chris, please feel free to have a go at spell totem, not spark/fork themselves!)

    - haste gem: it is so bad today that Chris doesn't even know it exists (its attack/cast speed will increase as it levels, also reducing mana reservation cost in future!)

    - molten shell: getting better in 0.10.0

    - quicksilver flasks: they've been a hit internally - remember you dont have to stop and do a cast animation to use it

    - hybrid weapons (eg staffs, daggers): chris believes that its ok to have some items to have different crafting difficulties. however GGG have discussed, for example, having daggers be either hybrid, melee or casting from when its initially generated, but it remains a long term goal to consider

    - throwing weapons or crossbows: chris would like to get to them in the future, eg one per year, but not enough skills to make them interesting right now. so may dribble in over time so that they're done right in due course

    - avatar of fire: it will return, but don't know in what form. unlike CI, AoF it doesn't need to be sorted out before OB. CI may or may not be "sorted out" before OB?

    - totems: will you ever make uniques that give only totem abilities? chris thinks that would be pretty cool, much better on a unique than on a keystone or a buff.

    - potion replenishment in town: tps dont work in big fights, like bandits. maps have a limited set of tps anyway. so chris is ok with how this is working. GGG will probably make it so that you have to go to an NPC to replenish your health in town in future.

    - nerfing philosophy generally: what determines an OP build for GGG? it's not just people whining on the forum. they predict whats going to happen in the future. if they see the potential to get something *easily* and be OP, then that's a problem - less of a problem if you are OP after big effort/wealth investment. GGG not trying to nerf everything to suck. Also, as people use shorter term leagues, hopefully, then creating OP builds will be harder given the limited time and less developed economies in these leagues.

    - unique flasks: we dont have rare flasks because its hard to remember what they do with only two mods. we are working on unique flasks, and at least one diamond supporter are working on one (eg there used to be Merveil's Tears flasks)

    - public profile pages for gear/skill tree: because of privacy, it would be opt-in only. if someone opts in, we'd love to add this. not just yet though

    - OB stability: working feverishly on this. public stress test weekends, hardware has been improved, bot army tests, etc. very pleased with feedback, buying more hardware.

    - middle mouse button: can you rebind it? its a coming change for middle and side mouse buttons, probably in jan or feb. it's a UI priority

    - chance to make a new key bar on weapon swap?: this is a change GGG will probably make, despite technical challenges. probably not before OB. will be very interesting for new builds (eg apply shock from one weapon/skill and then weapon swap into a new skill to apply to shocked mob). kripp thinks this will be a big driver of build diversity (I agree!).

    - trading in solo races: will probably be removed soon to stop abuse. may be patched in before OB if they have time

    - horseman boots? why? chris has no idea

    - stat migration between items: kripp had this idea a while ago, but chris isn't a fan. chris is concerned with "rare convergence" making rare items to be godly too quickly. the concept is potentially interesting, but it would have to be really expensive (ie practically impossible, but creates hope)

    - matching rares: kripp a fan of the change. chris hadnt predicted PoE helper, and they'd ban it if they could but they can't (technically - unless they removed ability to see items on website, which they love). so they nerfed the recipe

    - mercenaries: looking to add them in the future, not being rushed in soon

    - penetration gems: too OP compared to curses (esp for resist/aura mobs)? chris will bring it up with the devs on monday

    - decoy totems: why can mobs one shot me, and not one shot my decoy totem? chris will look into it

    - rubber banding and desync: there is a tradeoff between rubber banding and desync. while fixing fast moving skills is a core issue, there will still be rubber banding which represents more accurate syncing

    - transaction store: new pets! whole variety of item effect stuff. extra gore for example. premium stash tabs. spell animations (eg plinth warp (?), as used by an act 3 boss). dances.

    - auction house: it wont be coming. by the way it costs one million dollars to put it in.

    - PvP: will be moved into act 3 a few weeks after OB, a core focus come OB.

    - new content: plan about ten years ahead. expect the core systems to last ten years. how often will acts be updated (eg act 4)? acts take a lot of effort, they anticipate every 6-12 months depending on team size, profitability. look at LoL, but they have hundreds of staff.

    - reskin monsters to get rid of spiders? interesting, chris hasn't thought of that as a microtransaction.

    - aurify support gem: turning a buff into an aura (eg phase run, tempest shield) - exists but not in the game at the moment. could be done on a unique, maybe with a griefing penalty.

    - auras on unique: its currently supported and might be in soon (eg haste on a unique). kripp thinks stacking auras is absurdly powerful, while most people disagree. kripp likes EB with Inner Force (edit: check out my Ranger EB 7 aura wand build). Note, kripp reminds us that inner force applies to flask buffs, like granite flasks...

    - kripp plays an OP life leech physical melee character who uses sweep, karui maul, granite flasks, CI, vaal pact, IR, unwavering stance, RT, vaal pact and inner force - nice build (and only 4k ES and not godly gear).

    - christmas: Chris will be with his family for a day, otherwise in the office

    - downleveling: expect there to be a currency item that can downlevel you one level

    - pvp leagues: there will be more than just 28 and open pvp, depending on numbers in OB

    - general Act 4: Chris and the dev team continue to debate whether Act 4 (if and when it comes) should conceptually run after Act 3 in terms of level and gear progression, or, instead, "in parallel" with Act 3 - so as to not obviate the progress made by people and gear accumulated from Act 3. Chris appears to generally dislike when expansions make the preceding content redundant.

    Enjoy.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2012-12-17 at 06:10 AM.

  4. #204
    Thanks for the links, Fencers. Good stuff there.

  5. #205
    Heh. Gotta give Kripp credit;



    Pretty unique build and very cool DOUBLE BRUTUS boss fight w/ frost adds and burning ground.

    He wrecked 'em.

  6. #206
    Brewmaster Newbryn's Avatar
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    I plan to do a chaos inoculation build myself with a witch though.
    Claymore is Epic again, eat it priscilla fanboys.

  7. #207
    A lot of people claim that Ranger is the weakest starting class. I have leveled every class up to the mid 50s and 60s over 8 or so months now. Have to say, Witch is the weakest and least flexible of all starter classes.

    Witched just need more gear and respecs than other classes. Can cruise through the game in L30 rares up to like Merciless difficulty as a Shadow, Marauder, Templar and Duelist. It's just a lot more work and way slower to do so as a Witch.

    Witches are also pretty constraining if you want to progress to the point of having a decent build. Cold/summoner and that's what you are stuck with for a long time when Templars and Marauders are 1-shotting mobs by level 20.

    That isn't to say a high level Witch is bad. I just don't find it worth the effort when a Templar or Shadow do it better and faster. Even wand/staff blood caster Marauders & Duelists get through content with a lot more ease.

    Feel Witches need a hub near their starter area with a lot more spell or defensive power. In fact, I think the old Witch tree was a lot more flexible and powerful.

    Have run summoner, dual & single wand, CI, cold, lightning, fear and melee ES builds for Witches. Level 55.

  8. #208
    Brewmaster Newbryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    A lot of people claim that Ranger is the weakest starting class. I have leveled every class up to the mid 50s and 60s over 8 or so months now. Have to say, Witch is the weakest and least flexible of all starter classes.

    Witched just need more gear and respecs than other classes. Can cruise through the game in L30 rares up to like Merciless difficulty as a Shadow, Marauder, Templar and Duelist. It's just a lot more work and way slower to do so as a Witch.

    Witches are also pretty constraining if you want to progress to the point of having a decent build. Cold/summoner and that's what you are stuck with for a long time when Templars and Marauders are 1-shotting mobs by level 20.

    That isn't to say a high level Witch is bad. I just don't find it worth the effort when a Templar or Shadow do it better and faster. Even wand/staff blood caster Marauders & Duelists get through content with a lot more ease.

    Feel Witches need a hub near their starter area with a lot more spell or defensive power. In fact, I think the old Witch tree was a lot more flexible and powerful.

    Have run summoner, dual & single wand, CI, cold, lightning, fear and melee ES builds for Witches. Level 55.
    O I don't really mind its more of an experiment since I'm going to be using a bow its gonna be interesting.
    Claymore is Epic again, eat it priscilla fanboys.

  9. #209
    I actually used this unique bow: http://en.pathofexilewiki.com/wiki/Q...ain,_Short_Bow



    As a Witch on all my builds to start. Just because it was way more effective at low levels than trying to Freezing Pulse/Spark things to death.

    Currently I am trying out a a bow Templar [level 45 atm] : http://tinyurl.com/bnlfh93

    Almost totally elemental damage:

    - Fire Arrow+Chain+Chance to Ignite
    - Lightning Arrow+Chain+Lightning Penetration
    - Elemental Hit+Faster Attacks+Mana Leech
    - Bow Totem+Cold Arrow+Chain
    - Clarity Aura+Reduced Mana+Hatred Aura

    Kinda just 1 shot entire packs due to the way Lightning Arrow works.


    Edit: Level 100 dream build: http://tinyurl.com/bw8uf6t

    Hehe.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2012-12-17 at 07:41 PM.

  10. #210
    Brewmaster Newbryn's Avatar
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    Good luck on hitting 100, lightning arrow does seem awfully OP though or is it just support gems plus passive?
    Claymore is Epic again, eat it priscilla fanboys.

  11. #211
    Lightning Arrow is being changed next patch.

    LA is sorta OP in the way you can use it's mechanics. The mechanics themselves are not too powerful. It's actually kinda weak. But by support gems and the shock debuff it can be easily abusive.

    I sorta feel Chain is OP more so than direct skills.

    On one of my characters I have double totem passive. Linked Spell Totem+Chain+Shock+Chance to Flee. That's now 2 totems that debuff and constantly fear mobs. Consider the sheer amount of shocks 1 totem can output. Now double it with the 2 totem passive, each one of those shocked mobs has a 50% chance of being feared.

    It cost like 24 mana to summon too. Nothing.

  12. #212
    Brewmaster Newbryn's Avatar
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    I guess that's part of the flexibility of the system that I like, but I'm curious to see how the devs are gonna work around such explosive builds in the future.
    Claymore is Epic again, eat it priscilla fanboys.

  13. #213
    Seems they are pretty okay with players finding interesting loopholes as long as it isn't something completely broken/game destroying. Such as the old Facebreaker builds.

    Which by the way, I got my Facebreaker build to level 41 last week. It's still hella powerful and fun. Not sure it's totally viable for maps due to low survival. Well, it's not viable really. But Facebreaker is a massively fun item and build path.

  14. #214
    Dreadlord Cludo's Avatar
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    Just wondering weather I'd get the effect from 'Pain Attunement' when I use 'Chaos Inoculation'.
    1hp is low life, but its also 100% of my life pool, So im not sure if i'd get the effect or not?


  15. #215
    Just wondering weather I'd get the effect from 'Pain Attunement' when I use 'Chaos Inoculation'.
    1hp is low life, but its also 100% of my life pool, So im not sure if i'd get the effect or not?
    Nope, low life in PoE is defined as being lower than 35% of your maximum health. With CI, your maximum health is 1. With CI you can not be on low life, you are either at full HP or dead.
    Last edited by Templeton; 2012-12-18 at 04:49 AM.

  16. #216
    Dreadlord Cludo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Templeton View Post
    Nope, low life in PoE is defined as being lower than 35% of your maximum health. With CI, your maximum health is 1. With CI you can not be on low life, you are either at full HP or dead.
    Though just as much, Thanks for the reply.

  17. #217
    Although CI/1 HP doesn't count as "low life", 1hp does count as full life. Meaning that as long as you are not -dead- several benefits from gear and gems can be used 100% of the time. Such as added damage when on full life [1hp = full life] and various unique items that modify damage or buffs based on full life.

    CI is a neat trick of sorts.

  18. #218
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    I have to say I quite like this game, feels a lot like Diablo 2 again.

    And the talent tree = mind blown!

  19. #219
    lf beta key for this! looks great

  20. #220
    FRYSY-MKYQ9-7AP2U-G557P

    First come first served.

    P.S. Great game, beta reset (to open beta) is 23 jan I think, so make use of your time. I personally quit until the reset

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