1. #3841
    Quote Originally Posted by Noxiye View Post
    On topic, I remember Cold being the only viable element for Witch/Shadow back in the day (I may remember wrong) - this was before the introduction of Incinerate, and I haven't kept up to date with the updates that happened after that.

    My question is, are Fire/Lightning Witches/Shadows as good as Cold (for Hardcore!) these days?
    Fire and Lightning are still pretty good, but one of the reasons Cold is a bit better, esp for HC, is that it applies Chill and Freeze, which is another form of mitigation.

    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Hmmm is a shadow minion build viable? I remember fencer saying witch is kinda more advanced so its either shadow or templar and well... I don't want to play an old man
    Witch is still very good for a MM build. Just be aware that a minion build takes a while to get going, as zombies and skeletons are fairly weak early on. You'll want to mix in another spell while going through normal, and you'll need to be aware that bosses tear through your minions pretty quickly (though you can spam skeletons on top of the boss to keep them occupied). Also, getting a Rejuv Totem early-mid on can help keep your minions up a bit longer.

  2. #3842
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinna View Post
    Or have I it all wrong and it attempts to take 30% of the damage from mana pool, but it it's not available, then it takes it all from health?
    It attempts to take damage from your mana pool. Mind over Matter is just another form of ES.

    The checks go like this: Molten Shell > ES > Mana/Mind over Matter > Life.

    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Hmmm is a shadow minion build viable? I remember fencer saying witch is kinda more advanced so its either shadow or templar and well... I don't want to play an old man
    GGG have greatly smoothed out the Witch starter area since I last said Witches were a more advanced class. They used to start off really slow and underpowered. But now you have more up front damage options and GGG added more defensive nodes to the north eastern quadrant of the tree.

    Witch is the easiest summoner to get going. Though it does take a long time before a Witch summoner becomes lol2easy.

    This is my revised Nemesis HC Witch build: link.

    I don't think there is a "safer" build in the game. Especially with all the new minions and stuff GGG added.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noxiye View Post
    My question is, are Fire/Lightning Witches/Shadows as good as Cold (for Hardcore!) these days?
    Cold will always have the advantage in HC because it is a defensive element. However, Fire and Lightning are still rather popular and potent. Fire in particular has now become a thing.

    They are all viable. Just build smart.

  3. #3843
    Goddammit, Bringer of Rain is so goddamn expensive. Saving up for 3 weeks now on Domination, still 3-4 exalts away

  4. #3844
    GGG have greatly smoothed out the Witch starter area since I last said Witches were a more advanced class. They used to start off really slow and underpowered. But now you have more up front damage options and GGG added more defensive nodes to the north eastern quadrant of the tree.

    Witch is the easiest summoner to get going. Though it does take a long time before a Witch summoner becomes lol2easy.

    This is my revised Nemesis HC Witch build: link.

    I don't think there is a "safer" build in the game. Especially with all the new minions and stuff GGG added.
    Hmm you got anything for shadow? Was hoping for some kind of hybrid if its even good.

    NVM shadow seems to far for a minion hybrid, I'll just play around with him I guess
    Last edited by zito; 2013-11-06 at 03:26 PM.
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

    I received a day one ORAS demo code. I am a chosen one.

  5. #3845
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    This is my revised Nemesis HC Witch build: link.

    I don't think there is a "safer" build in the game. Especially with all the new minions and stuff GGG added.
    Interesting. While obviously defensive, I'm surprised you didn't go for Whispers of Doom. I've found having 2-3 Curses really helps MMs in both survivability and in damage.

    Also, I really wish they'd add a Keystone that was counter to MI, something to buff minions when they were below 33% HP.

  6. #3846
    Quote Originally Posted by Noxiye View Post
    On topic, I remember Cold being the only viable element for Witch/Shadow back in the day (I may remember wrong) - this was before the introduction of Incinerate, and I haven't kept up to date with the updates that happened after that.

    My question is, are Fire/Lightning Witches/Shadows as good as Cold (for Hardcore!) these days?
    My highest right now is a level 70 evasion / ondar's guile fire based ice-spear scion.

    The concept is simple: ice spear crits 100% of the time, so that gives me easy access to ignites and I can build for crit multiplier. So AOF + cold to fire, ele prolif and 800% crit damage multiplier, and I have my basic build in hand.

    The upside of building for that is that flame totem and fireball get a windfall from both increased fire damage and massive crit, giving you easy access to very potent single target damage, and massive crowd control (flame totem + blind + knockback (or chance on flee) + gmp).

    Right now I have a room clearing spell with ice spear / lmp; single target dps with fireball / conc area / lmp for shotgun effect (2k dps per fireball, x3 = 6k dps with occasional one-shots on rares when it crits); and my flame totem keeps all physical melee controlled 100% of the time. And the cool thing is, if the room is too dangerous to go in, just shoot a few ice spears and duck around the corner. Burning will finish them off. I have shitty cold resist, and I just cleared merciless archives by doing that vs packs of those freeze pulse guys.

    The only real danger are Brutus / Kole / Perpetus and their ilk who use physical damage spells. With 4% armor and only ~2k hp (and 500 ES) I get nearly one-shotted by these if they somehow target me instead of my totem. Doing the dunes map with a blacksmith who leapslams was nearly the end of my HC career, he brought me down to 120 hp in one slam.

  7. #3847
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone Jack View Post
    Interesting. While obviously defensive, I'm surprised you didn't go for Whispers of Doom. I've found having 2-3 Curses really helps MMs in both survivability and in damage.
    To be honest, I think cursing is a waste of effort half the time. Especially 2 curses. Usually I throw out 1 curse whenever I see a tough pack of mobs. Otherwise I simply steamroll over everything.

    Depending on the map, and whether I have my friends & husband in party, I just equip the double curse ring and use the Temporal Chains gloves. Everything is automatically slowed and I might toss out Enfeebles or Ele Weaknesses for the party.

    In solo play I usually have like 3 specters, 9 zombies, 16 skeletons, animate guardian, spark totems and the flying swords. With like 7-9k ES. It's more than enough. Usually can't even see what the minions are fighting.

    I just don't see the points wasted on Whispers of Doom paying off vs. some more cast speed or damage. At least I can shock/direct + cull via Arc &/or Power Siphon.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Hmm you got anything for shadow? Was hoping for some kind of hybrid if its even good.

    NVM shadow seems to far for a minion hybrid, I'll just play around with him I guess
    It's pretty similar for Shadow too. Example link; here. Not too tough to understand.

    You'd trade off some things like better auras or overall ES starting Shadow, of course. In the end, they would be so similar as to be no big deal really.

    Should keep in mind, my advice is usually for HC orientated characters. Yet even in softcore I have a strong tendency toward hyper defense builds. So alter as fits your play style.

    Truly, I am a tank player. I only tank.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2013-11-06 at 06:24 PM.

  8. #3848
    Quote Originally Posted by Brakthir View Post
    Goddammit, Bringer of Rain is so goddamn expensive. Saving up for 3 weeks now on Domination, still 3-4 exalts away
    just Chance one

  9. #3849
    Truly, I am a tank player. I only tank.
    I never seen you do anything else
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

    I received a day one ORAS demo code. I am a chosen one.

  10. #3850
    Actually, I also had the idea in tandem with my Templar dual totem concept for a Low Life Mana Shield Dual Totem Scion with full summons.

    Build link.

    I really enjoyed my Low Life dual Spork Witch in OBT. But I feel it's too risky in 1.0 and lost a lot of power with the shock nerfs. So I was sorta thinking, what if I was a life summoner with the option dual spork. Possibly even triple spork with the Spidersilk Robe unique- actually 3 Arc totems, as I feel the range and cast speed will scale insanely high with the totem nodes. With Mind over Matter it would make LL a lot less risky and Scion can reach MoM easily while still picking up all the totemic nodes.

    Haven't put the build into action. Just toying around with ideas on my commute to work. But think I do have the means [i.e. items] to level to like 65 on a Scion in a day or so to sketch the skeletal path of the build at least. Maybe will take 20 or so regrets to transition from level ST spec to minion/totem master.

    I own like 7 Queen's Decree swords and like 2 Chober Chabers. I sorta would like to be a melee summoner too.

    Wouldn't it be badass if we could one day dual wield 2h weapons like in Diablo and Warcraft? Dual 6L Chober Chabers would be phenomenally awesome.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2013-11-06 at 06:48 PM.

  11. #3851
    I guess its a bit... underwhelming to try a dexterity/intel shadow summon hybrid? Having summons and then using Dex as main attack or whatever?
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

    I received a day one ORAS demo code. I am a chosen one.

  12. #3852
    As long as it is a hybrid Dex/Int attack you are using it should be okay. The main problem with mixing spells and attacks is the latter requires accuracy. Which will eat into the points/nodes you often need to maintain spells.

    Doing it as Shadow could be either expensive or too difficult. Possibly both, tbh. Ranger and Duelist could do it easier, Scion possibly easiest. But you'd have to reconcile your defenses with the summons in some way. Considering all 3 of those mentioned can't access CI as easily as Templar, Witch and Shadow.

    So like everything in Path of Exile, it depends.

    Edit: Blood Magic summoning Marauders enjoyed a few weeks of popularity. And from what I heard it was not too bad to level or run so long as you had enough INT going into the mid-late game.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2013-11-06 at 06:55 PM.

  13. #3853
    I was thinking maybe picking up the claws leech and then acrobatics and losing some mana shield bonuses. I'd figure if dropping some of the mana shield stuff to go towards acrobatics I could pick up the claw nodes and get some leeching to counter it.

    Though I've hardly play so no idea what I'm doing

    But I want a melee summoner :x!
    Last edited by zito; 2013-11-06 at 07:00 PM.
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

    I received a day one ORAS demo code. I am a chosen one.

  14. #3854
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    I was thinking maybe picking up the claws leech and then acrobatics and losing some mana shield bonuses.

    Though I've hardly play so no idea what I'm doing

    But I want a melee summoner :x!
    You will need enough damage to maintain your life or es via claw leech and the accuracy to even hit monsters with your claws.

    I am not going to say it's impossible to work your idea out. But it seems like it would be very difficult to balance the damage you need for claw leech, accuracy, minion strength, mana and life or es w/ secondary mitigation in the form of evasion, armor or MoM.

    The cost would likely be enormous too. In currency and items.

    If you want to melee and have minions, why not play melee Templar or Marauder with minions? They are viable. A guy in our guild ran a Searing Touch fire crit Templar with minions and convert DD. We cleared maps super fast between his massive aoe bombs, my LA shock Ranger and my husband's Cyclone MS Duelist.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2013-11-06 at 07:05 PM.

  15. #3855
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    You will need enough damage to maintain your life or es via claw leech and the accuracy to even hit monsters with your claws.

    I am not going to say it's impossible to work your idea out. But it seems like it would be very difficult to balance the damage you need for claw leech, accuracy, minion strength, mana and life or es w/ secondary mitigation in the form of evasion, armor or MoM.

    The cost would likely be enormous too. In currency and items.
    Minion strength is determined by Intel right?

    Hmm I guess I'm putting too much food on my plate. I just like shadow, and minons and then I saw claws and I wanted them.... wanted them

    Minions don't get your leeching I'm going to assume
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

    I received a day one ORAS demo code. I am a chosen one.

  16. #3856
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Minion strength is determined by Intel right?
    No. Minions are spell gems, which means they scale with gem level and quality most often. Other than that you need the minion nodes.

    Hmm I guess I'm putting too much food on my plate. I just like shadow, and minons and then I saw claws and I wanted them.... wanted them
    I see. Well, its like your idea is better off as something other than Shadow. There should be no attachment to Shadow as a class. It's just a means to an end.

    Minions don't get your leeching I'm going to assume
    No, they do not.

    The minions do not have your passive tree. If you gain X when Y happens via the tree, that is true for YOU. Not the minions unless a node specifically states "minions blah blah blah".

    If you wanted your minions to leech you have to give them life leeching gems.

  17. #3857
    If you want to melee and have minions, why not play melee Templar or Marauder with minions? They are viable. A guy in our guild ran a Searing Touch fire crit Templar with minions and convert DD. We cleared maps super fast between his massive aoe bombs, my LA shock Ranger and my husband's Cyclone MS Duelist.
    I just liked the look of shadow. Personal appearances etc etc.

    I might just drop minions for claw leeching.

    Next to gardening/farming which no game ever fucking implements, claws are my favorite weapon that also never get put in any game.

    I just liked the idea of being up front with claws with leeching and having your minions join you and then they eventually explode
    Last edited by zito; 2013-11-06 at 07:21 PM.
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

    I received a day one ORAS demo code. I am a chosen one.

  18. #3858
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    I just liked the look of shadow. Personal appearances etc etc.

    I might just drop minions for claw leeching.

    Next to gardening/farming which no game ever fucking implements, claws are my favorite weapon that also never get put in any game.

    I just liked the idea of being up front with claws with leeching and having your minions join you and then they eventually explode
    Then why don't you just use like, Dominating Blow. I'm pretty sure it works with claws.




    You can have unlimited minions.

  19. #3859
    I revisited the summoner idea and I'm in the process of making a new one. While I was leveling early on I noticed the tooltips for my summons were receiving the "Gain 2 life per hit" from the Redbeak Sword that I had equipped, what is this sorcery, tooltip error or do they actually inherit life on hit from your gear?
    "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Paradox of tolerance

  20. #3860
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Then why don't you just use like, Dominating Blow. I'm pretty sure it works with claws.




    You can have unlimited minions.
    omfg what is this madness
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

    I received a day one ORAS demo code. I am a chosen one.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •