1. #7541
    Quote Originally Posted by rogerwilko View Post
    GGG is able to bring a viable AH solution into the game just as ArenaNet was able to bring a viable/working 'search' option to their forums for the past 3 years.
    low budget 'why fix it if we can still milk it' games.
    You're making the mistake of thinking they want to add something they clearly stated they will never add.

  2. #7542
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Redblade View Post
    they clearly stated they will never add.
    And we know that people who have said they'll never do something have never changed their minds.

  3. #7543
    Quote Originally Posted by Sydänyö View Post
    And we know that people who have said they'll never do something have never changed their minds.
    It would first of all go against their word on this, an early promise to the players supporting them. Second of all it would go against their whole design philosophy with a barter economy based of consumable currencies. Now do you really think they would just turn around and say "Fuck it, lets make an AH" and by doing so pissing of their core player base while ripping a part of the soul out of the game?

    I'm quite sure they would lose money quite rapidly if they ever did.

  4. #7544
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Redblade View Post
    Second of all it would go against their whole design philosophy with a barter economy based of consumable currencies.
    If you put a Sword of Hitting Monsters up for sale, in an in-game shop (you can call it an AH if you like) for 1 chaos orb, and someone then buys it for 1 chaos orb, how does that go against a) a barter economy, when hartering just took place, and b) an economy based on consumable currencies, when a consumable currency was just used in the barter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redblade View Post
    a part of the soul out of the game
    So... A part of the soul of the game is actually a trading system that a minuscule fraction of the players actually ever utilize? That's...an interesting way of looking at it.

  5. #7545
    Quote Originally Posted by Sydänyö View Post
    If you put a Sword of Hitting Monsters up for sale, in an in-game shop (you can call it an AH if you like) for 1 chaos orb, and someone then buys it for 1 chaos orb, how does that go against a) a barter economy, when hartering just took place, and b) an economy based on consumable currencies, when a consumable currency was just used in the barter?
    Because there is no interaction taking place, there is no option for negotiation. One of the main goals with the currencies we have is that they are not supposed to be static in value.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sydänyö View Post
    So... A part of the soul of the game is actually a trading system that a minuscule fraction of the players actually ever utilize? That's...an interesting way of looking at it.
    If 1/3 of the player base is minuscule to you then I guess so...that's only the players that posted a shop, how many people traded without running a shop is obviously unknown.

  6. #7546
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Redblade View Post
    If 1/3 of the player base is minuscule to you then I guess so...that's only the players that posted a shop, how many people traded without running a shop is obviously unknown.
    Wasn't that 1/3 number off of some toplist.

  7. #7547
    I and emphasis on I, would hate any sort of an automated thing. Unless the GW style trading post (never played) is nothing like an AH in mmos.

    They actually gave me all that I wanted. An API to better tell if someone is online with better support for scrubbing the data and no need to make forum posts.

    In an AH you just go up and buy the best piece of gear for your build period. I'm not saying that you don't do that now, but there's a lot of compromise. One guy is afk, so you try another piece. That piece is too expensive, so you go for your third option. There's a little bit of interaction. Perhaps some haggling, etc.

    I understand the argument that buying the best piece is what you do now, but it's involved. I also understand that (for some) things like people being afk is less "involved" than it is "annoying"; for me it is not.

    In an AH you don't even worry about something being too expensive. You don't even get to laugh at the guy who "thinks he's gonna get 20c for THAT?". You just fill out some fields and collect gear. "Spell damage > 30%" "Price <= 2c". Then you click the first thing you get. You don't even get to say something like "will you take fuse instead"? The sellers just wake up every morning and collect currency.

    You might as well just have the NPCs sell the best gear for each level. At least then you'd have the decision of saying "fuck, nothing with fire res today"?

    Finally... for some reason even Diablo scrubbed the idea. Obviously a company, who is not intentionally in the market of pissing people off, for whatever reason decided it was a poor enough idea that they would yank it right out from under people... and in Diablo it even works better, since they just have gold, not multiple currency.

    (Diablo did scrub the regular AH too, right? Not just the RMAH? I stopped playing before that (NOT for that reason), so I'm just going by memory of forums posts).

    I think my biggest problem is that an AH kind of gets rid of the idea of loot. With millions of drops per day, whatever you want is out there. If everyone is just dumping everything on the AH, things end up getting ridiculously cheap, and you always have an upgrade. It might be similar with this method, but you actually have to go find the item, and find a person online. It's just not an immediate upgrade every time you find a chaos, or two, or half.
    Last edited by Aurimas; 2016-03-02 at 04:31 PM.

  8. #7548
    Yeah, Blizzard quickly realized that balancing drops around an AH is not possible in this genre. In the end, the only way to keep the game fun for the individual player was to *remove trading entirely* so that people could ONLY self-find items. Then, they can buff drops so that it's actually viable to play by yourself and have fun. I still remember the end of my time in d3 classic, being able to fully outfit a character for ~10m the second you hit 60 and be ready to go straight to torment, then spending weeks of farming before finding one decent pair of IK gloves that sold for 1.2 billion, one item worth a hundred times over what my entire character was worth. And did the gold really improve me much? Not at all, because you can only trade one good item for one good item in the end. Once massive quantities of items are dumped into the economy via the AH, anything that isn't best in slot becomes worthless, which means the amount of currency in circulation is merely divided among the top tier items, while everything else becomes essentially free. The natural result is that a full set of tier 2 gear can be achieved the day you start playing, while upgrading even one piece to tier 1 is essentially impossible no matter how much grinding you do. Say goodbye to any sense of progression or accomplishment.

    Yeah, trading is a pain in the ass and yes, we all hate it. But it's a necessary evil in ARPGs. The only real alternative is a single player only game.
    Last edited by Lysah; 2016-03-02 at 04:47 PM.

  9. #7549
    Pandaren Monk thewallofsleep's Avatar
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    How is the server desync and lag in PoE these days? I played for a couple weeks a few months after launch and it was crippling.

  10. #7550
    Quote Originally Posted by Sydänyö View Post
    Wasn't that 1/3 number off of some toplist.
    It's of the players that show up on the ladder, assuming it wouldn't follow the same pattern statistically across the player base is just daft.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by thewallofsleep View Post
    How is the server desync and lag in PoE these days? I played for a couple weeks a few months after launch and it was crippling.
    Desync is a thing of the past if you have sub ~75 ms, might be alright up to 100 ish as well never really tried.

  11. #7551
    Yea, desync is gone because of lockstep.

    Even 100ish is fine. On the rare occasion that it spikes enough for me to look at my latency, it's usually well above.

  12. #7552
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Redblade View Post
    It's of the players that show up on the ladder, assuming it wouldn't follow the same pattern statistically across the player base is just daft.
    It's not daft at all. There's most likely a direct correlation between people who play diligently and a lot and thus end up on the ladder, and people who can be arsed to trade, let alone put up shops on the forums.

    And even if it wasn't, 33% of the entire playerbase doing a certain thing isn't suggesting that the thing is a part of the "soul" of a game. That's like saying that if 33% of WoW players raid, then raiding is the soul of WoW. Yeah, no. The vast majority that are the 67% might disagree a bit.

    But I'm not at all convinced that the people who make shops and trade actively, or at the very least sell actively (thus keep the trading system alive), are anywhere near 33% of the entire playerbase.

  13. #7553

  14. #7554
    Quote Originally Posted by Sydänyö View Post
    It's not daft at all. There's most likely a direct correlation between people who play diligently and a lot and thus end up on the ladder, and people who can be arsed to trade, let alone put up shops on the forums.
    All kinds of players make a shop as well as all kinds of players don't, as far as I know there are even players in the top 20 that doesn't have a shop. You're making assumptions based on your own bias.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sydänyö View Post
    And even if it wasn't, 33% of the entire playerbase doing a certain thing isn't suggesting that the thing is a part of the "soul" of a game. That's like saying that if 33% of WoW players raid, then raiding is the soul of WoW. Yeah, no. The vast majority that are the 67% might disagree a bit.
    Remove raiding from WoW and you're removing a part of the soul of that game as well...if you like the concept of raiding or not doesn't matter. The vast majority argument is flawed as you're, again, making assumptions based on your own bias speaking for others just because you think they belong in your corner. There are tons of WoW players that doesn't raid but agree that without raiding a huge vital part of the game would be missing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sydänyö View Post
    But I'm not at all convinced that the people who make shops and trade actively, or at the very least sell actively (thus keep the trading system alive), are anywhere near 33% of the entire playerbase.
    I'm quite sure the number is higher than that if we include trades done though trade chat...33% is people who made a shop, a lot of people sell their good shit quick to flippers in trade chat to get it out the way fast.
    Last edited by Redblade; 2016-03-03 at 04:52 AM.

  15. #7555
    I wonder how Orb of Storms will work when you attach it to a spell totem.
    If you are particularly bold, you could use a Shiny Ditto. Do keep in mind though, this will infuriate your opponents due to Ditto's beauty. Please do not use Shiny Ditto. You have been warned.

  16. #7556
    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    I wonder how Orb of Storms will work when you attach it to a spell totem.
    Poorly I'd assume as the totem keep re-casting it.

  17. #7557
    Quote Originally Posted by Redblade View Post
    Poorly I'd assume as the totem keep re-casting it.
    That isn't really so bad, providing the zaps aren't delayed, but it'd be a bit of a waste. I was more wondering about whether you would be able to have multiple Lightning Orbs out by running Ancestral Bond/the new Templar class with +2totems/that chestpiece with +totem.
    If you are particularly bold, you could use a Shiny Ditto. Do keep in mind though, this will infuriate your opponents due to Ditto's beauty. Please do not use Shiny Ditto. You have been warned.

  18. #7558
    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    That isn't really so bad, providing the zaps aren't delayed, but it'd be a bit of a waste. I was more wondering about whether you would be able to have multiple Lightning Orbs out by running Ancestral Bond/the new Templar class with +2totems/that chestpiece with +totem.
    Think it's limited to one.

  19. #7559
    Yeah I'm pretty sure any new cast will replace old orbs.

  20. #7560
    Deleted
    Do you guys think that Orb og Storms feels weird? Is it supposed to be for melee characters or spell casters? It requires you to stand inside the ring (which from videoes seems small) which means as a spell caster you have to stand quite close to mobs for it to lash damage out between mobs.

    For instance, I would like to use Storm Call with Orb of Storms. The cool thing about Storm Call is that i can stand afar and cast it but together with Orb of Storms i suddenly have to get up close which is kinda weird. The same thing goes for any other lightning spell cast far away.
    So is this more a melee support to melee spells like Lightning Strike for instance?
    Last edited by mmoc85011dd107; 2016-03-03 at 05:27 PM.

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