Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[Torchbringer]

"Guardian of the Ancient Kings (Retribution version) now has a reduced cooldown of 3 minutes, down from 5 minutes, and the maximum number of stacks has been reduced to 12."

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

guardian still isn't going to line up with wings, and now its nerfed to boot.

4 piece blows so much.

BTW anaxie, welcome to Tauren aka master race.

[anaxie]

"Guardian of the Ancient Kings (Retribution version) now has a reduced cooldown of 3 minutes, down from 5 minutes, and the maximum number of stacks has been reduced to 12."

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Yeah we need them to buff it to ATLEAST 16% and just do 4 min cd imo. And please don't touch his damage output formula thanks.

No sense tuning it as a 3 min cd when no ret who knows how to play will use it outside CD's.

Imo also pillar of frost is 1 min cd for 20 seconds of 20% strength? Why can't the guardian just give all the strength unfront? Another thing I would ask them.

---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 05:25 AM ----------

Another important thing to make clear to them on h ow bad the 4 set is. During cooldowns where most of our damage comes from our 4 pieace will net us 0 DPS. You would be a fucking moron to not keep generating holy power for TVS between hammers. DS is a slightly stronger CS and I'm sorry but having AoE attacks tuned for single target rotation seems retarded. Nevermind Using it stops the holy power generation dead in it's tracks making the rotation CLUNKY as fuck.

For this set bonus to be worth it. The proc would have to make DS be usable OFF the GCD and the proc chance needs to be ALOT fucking higher. 50% imo.

I've been playing ret so fucking long and blizz still keeps missing the point. Free DS is fine and it should be free. But our most important resource is our GCDS.

[Eurytos]

My immediate thought was the same as yours, Anaxie. DS needs to be off GCD if this 4pc is gonna be worth anything.

[Faesroll]

Interesting engineering change as well:

Hyperspeed Accelerators Permanently attaches hyperspeed accelerators to a pair of gloves, allowing a skilled engineer to increase their haste by 4,800 for 12 sec. The gloves can only be activated every minute. Engineering. 5 sec cast. Reagents: Tinker's Kit. Tools: Arclight Spanner.

[anaxie]

Burden of Guilt Your Judgment hits fill your target with doubt and remorse, reducing movement speed by 50% for 12 sec. Paladin - LvL 30 Talent. Your Turn Evil now also affects Humanoids and Beasts. Paladin - LvL 30 Talent.

LOL they gave paladin fear LOL!

---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 06:46 AM ----------

We will have to see if the GUARDIANS damage itself was changed on PTR. The 3 min cd if that isn't touched actually works. I think maybe they DONT want us to beable to line it up everytime but which would actually look something like this.

Pull CD with wings , 3min Use without wings, 6 Mins Use with 3rd wings. So esentially it would be the same setup as today except we wouldn't be delaying the guardian atall.


4 Set needs adressed the raid tier will LIKELY have adds so IMO the best solution would be push for the 50% proc chance and OFF the GCD FREE Divine storm on proc,

I mean it's not a terrible idea for a bonus and we all know they are trying SO hard to make us use DS again <hello 5.2 PTR tier> but The only option is auto proc or off the GCD. However I hate the idea of auto proc and would prefer the on demand usage.

[Deleted]

Another option is to make it auto-trigger on TV usage
Another is to keep it on the GCD and generate X holy power.

Again, these are just first-hand patchnotes, maybe DS will see some changes that will make the 4p insane/good.

Wait and see

[Vaylen]

What would you think if the ds generated by 4pc gave a charge of holy power?

[Faesroll]

What would you think if the ds generated by 4pc gave a charge of holy power?

It's worthless design in the first place, they moved away from AoE attacks in single target rotation in Wotlk and now they give this retarded set bonus. I hope it doesn't go through, and give t15 4 piece baseline please.

[Titok]

What if they get rid of TV and replace it with DS, but make it do the same damage to the main target as TV and have an AoE dmg equal to the DS, similar to HB for DKs. That way the 4pc bonus would make some sense.

[anaxie]

Another option is to make it auto-trigger on TV usage
Another is to keep it on the GCD and generate X holy power.

Again, these are just first-hand patchnotes, maybe DS will see some changes that will make the 4p insane/good.

Wait and see

Auto fire is a bad since you can break cc <if it is even used> or a "shield" can't be hit. No it needs to be player controlled and off the GCD. That + a 20%/25% increase on it's proc would make it a solid set bonus.

---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 01:25 PM ----------

What if they get rid of TV and replace it with DS, but make it do the same damage to the main target as TV and have an AoE dmg equal to the DS, similar to HB for DKs. That way the 4pc bonus would make some sense.

I'm sorry I would rather my tier result in a single target dps incrase not only aoe so I can actually be useful on intensive single target fights. bad idea

Unless you are suggesting DS at 275% weapon damage holy baseline. But then that is a step backwards from where we are today. They need to flesh TV and CS out more and do something baseline akin to the current T15 4 set.

---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 01:28 PM ----------

What would you think if the ds generated by 4pc gave a charge of holy power?

A slightly stronger CS still eating a GCD? No thanks I'll keep T15.

It's their problem and they have to fix it. They can't just nerf the tier because then we wil be dogshit for progression without gaining some baseline buffs.

[Deleted]

It's their problem and they have to fix it. They can't just nerf the tier because then we wil be dogshit for progression without gaining some baseline buffs.

Aren't you used to the Rettercoaster? ever since WotLK, we have had the most fluctuations in our performance out of any melee. the first 24 hours of 3.0, we were insane. then we were middle of the pack until 3.2 with ToC buffs, which improved us. then we were amazing with TAJ and T10. after 4.0, with our shit mastery, poor scaling and awful divine purpose, we were dogshit until 4.0.6, and then mediocre until the buffs from 4.2 and especially 4.3. after that, we went bad again until 5.2, and recently 5.3 brought us to lower middle of the pack.

if they fix our tier set, 5.4 will be pretty amazing. but if you paid any attention to the previous 2 expansion cycles, ret wasn't decent until the second half or even the 4th quarter of the expansion.

[anaxie]

Again the set bonus isn't a bad idea to work with they just need to implement it correctly.

OFF the GCD Free DS
Chance on TV for a FREE TV

One of those is fine. I personally like an off the GCD DS because it will help us significantly on AoE encounters we know that will exist. It will always bring back the ICC blender ret since our DS's will basically be procing itself.

---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 01:47 PM ----------

Aren't you used to the Rettercoaster? ever since WotLK, we have had the most fluctuations in our performance out of any melee. the first 24 hours of 3.0, we were insane. then we were middle of the pack until 3.2 with ToC buffs, which improved us. then we were amazing with TAJ and T10. after 4.0, with our shit mastery, poor scaling and awful divine purpose, we were dogshit until 4.0.6, and then mediocre until the buffs from 4.2 and especially 4.3. after that, we went bad again until 5.2, and recently 5.3 brought us to lower middle of the pack.

if they fix our tier set, 5.4 will be pretty amazing. but if you paid any attention to the previous 2 expansion cycles, ret wasn't decent until the second half or even the 4th quarter of the expansion.

No sorry, just started playing last week. I have no idea how ret works.

[Deleted]

No sorry, just started playing last week. I have no idea how ret works.

there's no need for the sarcasm. it was more of a cynical remark on my end to make fun of the way our DPS changes across expansions.

[Reith]

I can't see Guardian of Ancient Kings remaining at the same level of power with a lower CD -- didn't GC say in the past that some of the strength of the ability would be removed if the CD was altered?

Also, is the 4pc underwhelming to anybody else? I like DS as much as the next guy but it seems unnecessary unless it's going to pass TV in single target. o_O

4-set's great for AOE when it procs and makes Divine Purpose even better for that Purpose, as well.. but, it's not so good for single target, which makes me think that the Guardian change could stick, seeing as we rely on our T15 set bonuses to compete atm. A change like Guardian at 3 minutes isn't so cut-and-dry in terms of "always stack cooldowns" and how we should use it in an actual fight. If a fight lasts 7 minutes, you wouldn't even want to stack it with your AW the second time around.

Either way, there's more changes to come for Ret, I suspect.

[anaxie]

4-set's great for AOE when it procs and makes Divine Purpose even better for that Purpose, as well.. but, it's not so good for single target, which makes me think that the Guardian change could stick, seeing as we rely on our T15 set bonuses to compete atm. A change like Guardian at 3 minutes isn't so cut-and-dry in terms of "always stack cooldowns" and how we should use it in an actual fight. If a fight lasts 7 minutes, you wouldn't even want to stack it with your AW the second time around.

Either way, there's more changes to come for Ret, I suspect.

Already figured out their intent for the new Guardian a few posts back. If used on CD it will link up with wing at the same time it does today. It just wont give us as much Umph during Guardian based cooldowns or could be a DPS loss if they lowerered his attack damage by 45% aswell.

[Reith]

#1 Set bonus being worse making upgrading to T16 worthless unless they baseline buff Templar heavily baseline to compensate like DK's were offered this during ToT PTR for their 2 set damage.

I think they might just make our T15 4-set baseline, maybe in a slightly lesser form.

#2 Guardian of Ancient Kings at 3 mins is utterly fucking pointless and needs it's power <if they are nerfing for lower CD> to match the cooldown and the CD should make sense for ret 2mins or 4mins.

Like I said, Guardian at 3 minutes isn't so cut-and-dry for cooldown stacking so I can see what they're going for with the change. Cooldowns don't have to always stack to be useful, especially with 1/6th uptime on Guardian.

Oh yeah and set bonuses are okay to be weak (for me) as long as they compensate with our baseline stuff.

[anaxie]

I think they might just make our T15 4-set baseline, maybe in a slightly lesser form.


Like I said, Guardian at 3 minutes isn't so cut-and-dry for cooldown stacking so I can see what they're going for with the change. Cooldowns don't have to always stack to be useful, especially with 1/6th uptime on Guardian.

While they have made tiersets baseline in the past. I think them doing TV baseline would be something not to hold your breath for. It makes too much sense. Ret isn't supposed to make sense.

We truely need to emphasis during PTR how inferior new 4 set is to current. Maybe if we don't get baseline we can atleast see a 350% TV weapon strike and slightly better 4 set mechanics.


Would someone mind asking about the DS set on Twitter and ask GC if "free" means only Holy power or TRULY free and off the GCD. Since it's damage single target is so lackluster.

[Toxicity]

It most likely won't be off GCD because then you'd have every ret just macroing ds to every single ability that triggers gcd.

[Zoma]

It most likely won't be off GCD because then you'd have every ret just macroing ds to every single ability that triggers gcd.

Unless I'm missing something, I don't think that would work because if the 4set doesn't proc, it would make you spend 3 HP on DS instead of TV/Inq

[Zabannith]

Unless I'm missing something, I don't think that would work because if the 4set doesn't proc, it would make you spend 3 HP on DS instead of TV/Inq

He's right... alot of ppl may be thinking that "oh ill just make a EXO/DS macro" for example.. but if you put exo as the 1st ability used.. it triggers GCD and stops the macro.... but in the other respect of you were to put DS 1st then when you do have 3 HP it would spend the HP on the DS and then trigger GCD and your exo would not be cast.. its not as simple as just making a DS macro on every ability.

Also I remember seeing them say some wheres that they were going to make this tier very add heavy but I cant find the blue post atm... it may have been in with the post where they wanted to make melee more desired to compete with ranged when they were talking about melees new "niche" .

So I can see their reasoning for trying to push an aoe based 4 set... but they need to take another look an realize that this set really really needs work ,

Hell if they are planning on having this be an AOE heavy tier... give us a 4 set that allows our DS to spread our censure to multi targets.. you know what... it dosent even have to be censure... make DS apply its own dot when it hits 2+targets so we would not feel like we need to keep up a DS dot during single target .. and make the DS dot weaker than censure so we dont get stupid crazy aoe dps..

there problem solved.. that is assuming that this tier is going to be AOE heavy